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make_it_rain
In before the inevitable barrage of "Vick blows", etc.

Evidently Vick, a little annoyed Shady was calling him old, challenged him to a race and smoked him in the 40yd dash. I've been reading on a few other sites that Vick has gotten himself into really good shape, lifting heavy and crushing it in the gym over the last few months.

Last year we were seeing the guy get chased down by linebackers. Maybe he's got some gas back in his tank now, and we might get to see that speed and athleticism he once had?

Disclaimer: I am not saying this will happen, nor am I saying "Vick is back, F the haterz" etc. Just thought it was an interesting article you guys might be interested to check out.

Linkage
GQSmooth
I'm a little impressed especially since he is looking a lot more cut in the pictures, I've seen. If he can make pre snap reads and get the ball out quickly, where it needs to be that would be impressive.
D Rock
He's always been fast.

He's never been a quarterback.

Somethings never change.
nephillymike
An "in shape" Vick with proper coaching running an offense suited to his skills is intriguing.

The speed without ball protection and proper reads is not worth much to us though.

It will be fun to watch the competition.
D Rock
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 2 2013, 10:44 PM) *
An "in shape" Vick with proper coaching running an offense suited to his skills is intriguing.

has Vick ever been "out of shape?"

So you're suggesting that Chip represents "proper coaching" despite never having an NFL job. Ever.

Reeves, Mora, & Reid somehow failed Michael? It's easy to 2nd guess any coach, for sure. But it's a bit polyanna to assert a complete unknown coaching entity would arrive on the scene in Vicks 33rd year and suddenly, magically, miraculously find the solution to fix the leagues #1 coach killer.

I like Chipper, but let's not get carried away.

In fact, it's his seeming want to try to "fix mike" that leads me to fear he's just like all the rest.

mcnabbulous
Yeah, Andy the bum was always known for failing his quarterbacks. That logic is persistent exclusively in one place: Philadelphia Eagle message boards. The rest of the world knows he gets the most out of guys at that position.

D Rock
Seriously.

It must be Chippers record of developing quality NFL quarterbacks while in Eugene.

-oh wait-

nephillymike
Do you really think Andy Reid's (and Marty) playcalling the last two years was "proper coaching?

Vick has many faults and did not play as well as he should have but the chuck and duck approach with three and four options with a line decimated by injuries did not put him an a posiition to succeed.
D Rock
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 2 2013, 11:03 PM) *
Do you really think Andy Reid's (and Marty) playcalling the last two years was "proper coaching?

I never said that.
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 2 2013, 11:03 PM) *
Vick has many faults

To be sure. The greatest being that he sucks at quarterback.
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 2 2013, 11:03 PM) *
the chuck and duck approach with three and four options with a line decimated by injuries did not put him an a posiition to succeed.

No. It certainly didn't. They needed to find a system that hid the fact that he can't play quarterback.

However . . .

No matter the problems Vick was forced to deal with . . . they don't erase the fact that a rookie 3rd rounder came in an out performed him.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 2 2013, 05:03 PM) *
Do you really think Andy Reid's (and Marty) playcalling the last two years was "proper coaching?

Vick has many faults and did not play as well as he should have but the chuck and duck approach with three and four options with a line decimated by injuries did not put him an a posiition to succeed.


I don't think proper coaching exists with Vick because he had proven he can't be coached. He's at his best when things go wrong. That's a bad thing and you can't coach it.
samaroo
Vick is the NFL equivalent of one of those great street-ball basketball players. Fantastic athlete, and fantastic highlights, but just doesn't translate to the structured pro level. If there was a fast-break-only NFL, he'd be an All-Star.
Eyrie
I'd be very surprised if anyone doubts Vick's speed and athleticism.

It's his "repetitive accuracy" issues that will earn him a clipboard in 2013 whilst Foles starts and Barkley learns.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (Eyrie @ May 3 2013, 07:09 AM) *
I'd be very surprised if anyone doubts Vick's speed and athleticism.

It's his "repetitive accuracy" issues that will earn him a clipboard in 2013 whilst Foles starts and Barkley learns.

It'll be between Barkley and Vick by the time preseason begins
Dreagon
I think there is no doubting that Micheal Vick is a very fast and athletic quarterback. But considering that Kelly has kept Foles and picked up Barkley, there is a good chance that he is interested in going forward with Qbs who's strengths are in different areas.
D Rock
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ May 3 2013, 02:15 PM) *
It'll be between Barkley and Vick by the time preseason begins

Vicks got zero shot.

He sucks at quarterback. He's the polar opposite of EVERYTHING Kelly has stated is required for a good quarterback. From decisiveness to durability . . . he comes up short.
make_it_rain
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 3 2013, 12:57 PM) *
Vicks got zero shot.

He sucks at quarterback. He's the polar opposite of EVERYTHING Kelly has stated is required for a good quarterback. From decisiveness to durability . . . he comes up short.



I'll bet you that, barring injury in the preseason or anything of that nature, Vick is named the week 1 starter. Granted, this isn't what I think they should do, but rather what I think they will do.
mcnabbulous
The one reason why I think Vick will struggle to gain the starting nod is because he's notoriously poor in practice. And because that's what Chip will have to base his judgements, it may paint Vick more negatively than game action.

samaroo
I'm gonna go on record stating that I think Nick will be the starter week 1.
Eyrie
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ May 3 2013, 02:15 PM) *
It'll be between Barkley and Vick by the time preseason begins

I'd be surprised if Barkley is NFL-ready that soon and you need to put down the Vick-tinted glasses.

QUOTE (Dreagon @ May 3 2013, 02:18 PM) *
I think there is no doubting that Micheal Vick is a very fast and athletic quarterback. But considering that Kelly has kept Foles and picked up Barkley, there is a good chance that he is interested in going forward with Qbs who's strengths are in different areas.

Someone gets it.

QUOTE (D Rock @ May 3 2013, 05:57 PM) *
Vicks got zero shot.

He sucks at quarterback. He's the polar opposite of EVERYTHING Kelly has stated is required for a good quarterback. From decisiveness to durability . . . he comes up short.

Spot on.

QUOTE (make_it_rain @ May 3 2013, 06:46 PM) *
I'll bet you that, barring injury in the preseason or anything of that nature, Vick is named the week 1 starter. Granted, this isn't what I think they should do, but rather what I think they will do.

I don't see that for the reasons above. Once Vick gets injured, you'd have to change the system for Foles or Barkley.

QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 3 2013, 06:52 PM) *
The one reason why I think Vick will struggle to gain the starting nod is because he's notoriously poor in practice. And because that's what Chip will have to base his judgements, it may paint Vick more negatively than game action.

It's very clear that Kelly wants players he can rely on to execute the basics every time, and that will hurt Vick.

QUOTE (samaroo @ May 3 2013, 09:58 PM) *
I'm gonna go on record stating that I think Nick will be the starter week 1.

Ditto, although the more I read about Barkley the more I'm warming to the pick and think he can pressure Foles by mid-season. Still not convinced either is the long term starter, but we need to find out how good they can be.
Zero
QUOTE (samaroo @ May 3 2013, 04:58 PM) *
I'm gonna go on record stating that I think Nick will be the starter week 1.

Justin Roper ...
QUOTE
In 2007 Heisman candidate QB Dennis Dixon went down with a knee injury that thwarted Oregon's National Championship hopes, but few realize the extent to which Oregon was ravaged by injuries at the position that year. Oregon was down to their fourth string QB, (Justin Roper, a redshirt freshman who later transferred to Montana) as the starter for the Sun Bowl that year and Coach Kelly devised a game plan for the statuesque Roper that utilized his talents. Roper threw for four touchdown passes in that victory while Oregon set a record for points in the Sun Bowl (56). It was Chip's first year as our Offensive Coordinator...
Here ...

As far as I know, Roper isn't playing in the NFL and Foles is. I too think Foles could end up as the starter, but I guess the real question is if he's sustainable.

Roper ...
samaroo
Yeah, everything I keep reading about Barkley sounds good to me, too. But I don't think Chip will have enough confidence in him to start right away, assuming he's NFL caliber to begin with. Mid-season? Maybe. But I'm excited to see what Foles can do. We might all have pleasantly surprised.
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ May 2 2013, 03:37 PM) *
In before the inevitable barrage of "Vick blows", etc.

Evidently Vick, a little annoyed Shady was calling him old, challenged him to a race and smoked him in the 40yd dash. I've been reading on a few other sites that Vick has gotten himself into really good shape, lifting heavy and crushing it in the gym over the last few months.

Last year we were seeing the guy get chased down by linebackers. Maybe he's got some gas back in his tank now, and we might get to see that speed and athleticism he once had?

Disclaimer: I am not saying this will happen, nor am I saying "Vick is back, F the haterz" etc. Just thought it was an interesting article you guys might be interested to check out.

Linkage


In any case, Vick isn't signed long term.
I don't think Foles or Barkley are the answer. We screwed up taking Foles over Wilson, and tanked in the wrong year to get a replacement QB.

So unless we tank again this season (knowing the Eagles, they will suck just so little so they don't), we're stuck with mediocrity at the position. Which would be OK if the Eagles have a top-tier defense, as numerous teams (*coughGiantsRavenscough*) have won Super Bowls with that.

I have my doubts Chip will be focusing on that.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 3 2013, 12:57 PM) *
Vicks got zero shot.

I'll love your response when he ends up starter
iggleslover49
Vick will start this year. Barkley will start next and beyond. Foles will be a back up.
HOUSEoPAIN
I'm going to go on record as saying that absolutely no one here has any freakin clue who our week 1 starter is going to be, because we haven't seen Chip's system against NFL defenses and who will be best in it. Once we see a couple preseason games, we can make better guesses.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ May 5 2013, 10:14 AM) *
Vick will start this year. Barkley will start next and beyond. Foles will be a back up.


My question is what are the cap implications if Vick does not start? I can't imagine they keep him and I can't believe that there will be much of a trade market for him. If Barkley comes as advertised I think Kelly starts him right away. This is a guy who not only has started every where he has gone but he called his own plays in college according to Ray Diddinger. That is pretty impressive. I think that kind of pedigree bodes well for his chances and if he is going to be the guy going forward Kelly has nothing to lose starting him in a season where he gets a mulligan in a league rife with rookie starters through recent years.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 5 2013, 11:44 AM) *
My question is what are the cap implications if Vick does not start? I can't imagine they keep him and I can't believe that there will be much of a trade market for him. If Barkley comes as advertised I think Kelly starts him right away. This is a guy who not only has started every where he has gone but he called his own plays in college according to Ray Diddinger. That is pretty impressive. I think that kind of pedigree bodes well for his chances and if he is going to be the guy going forward Kelly has nothing to lose starting him in a season where he gets a mulligan in a league rife with rookie starters through recent years.

3.5 mil is all we owe him, guaranteed. With the QB depth we have, if he doesn't start, he'll most definitely be gone. And we go with Barkely, Foles, and Dixon as our QBs in that order. But right now, the job is Vick's to lose. I can definitely see Barkely starting, but Foles? No chance. Barkley is the better passer, and is more mobile than Foles. They both make sound decisions, but even there I give the edge to Barkley.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ May 5 2013, 11:26 AM) *
I'm going to go on record as saying that absolutely no one here has any freakin clue who our week 1 starter is going to be, because we haven't seen Chip's system against NFL defenses and who will be best in it. Once we see a couple preseason games, we can make better guesses.

People giving Vick holy hell. But he's the only one on the roster that has won games in the NFL. And done it via pass and run.
samaroo
Foles won about as much as Vick last year.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (samaroo @ May 5 2013, 03:48 PM) *
Foles won about as much as Vick last year.

Foles won 1 game. Vick won 3. And that's just in 2012
samaroo
That's not a good argument when you're comparing a "Pro Bowl" veteran to a rookie.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (samaroo @ May 5 2013, 04:14 PM) *
That's not a good argument when you're comparing a "Pro Bowl" veteran to a rookie.

Exactly...
samaroo
I'm confused by your tactics, sir.

Thanks, i guess?
D Rock
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ May 5 2013, 08:11 PM) *
Foles won 1 game. Vick won 3. And that's just in 2012

Either way, Foles played better than Vick, and he did it with even less talent than Vick had at his disposal.

Exactly what makes you think Vick can play? 6 - 9 good games from 3 years ago? Remove that strikingly small subset of data and what are you left with? A decade of mediocre to piss poor quarterback play with a handfull of highlights.

He was outplayed last year by a 3rd round rookie. And by a pretty wide margin. Just look at the turn over numbers.

The guy sux nards.

Interesting stat...

The offense score more than 20 points only twice last year w Vick playing. Foles put up 20 or more points 4 times in only 6 starts. I ain't sayin Foles is great. In fact, he's rather mediocre and ordinary. But he's nonetheless better than Vick.

iggleslover49
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 5 2013, 08:07 PM) *
Either way, Foles played better than Vick, and he did it with even less talent than Vick had at his disposal.

Exactly what makes you think Vick can play? 6 - 9 good games from 3 years ago? Remove that strikingly small subset of data and what are you left with? A decade of mediocre to piss poor quarterback play with a handfull of highlights.

He was outplayed last year by a 3rd round rookie. And by a pretty wide margin. Just look at the turn over numbers.

The guy sux nards.

Interesting stat...

The offense score more than 20 points only twice last year w Vick playing. Foles put up 20 or more points 4 times in only 6 starts. I ain't sayin Foles is great. In fact, he's rather mediocre and ordinary. But he's nonetheless better than Vick.

Interesting stat, with the same line up he's been practicing with since training camp. Again, continuity matters.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 5 2013, 07:07 PM) *
Either way, Foles played better than Vick, and he did it with even less talent than Vick had at his disposal.

Exactly what makes you think Vick can play? 6 - 9 good games from 3 years ago? Remove that strikingly small subset of data and what are you left with? A decade of mediocre to piss poor quarterback play with a handfull of highlights.

He was outplayed last year by a 3rd round rookie. And by a pretty wide margin. Just look at the turn over numbers.

The guy sux nards.

Interesting stat...

The offense score more than 20 points only twice last year w Vick playing. Foles put up 20 or more points 4 times in only 6 starts. I ain't sayin Foles is great. In fact, he's rather mediocre and ordinary. But he's nonetheless better than Vick.


I don't necessarily share your dismissal of Vick's ability. He has some terrific skills and he performed in Atlanta as he was coached which was pretty bad. Some of that falls on his shoulders as well, he needed to be more responsible and was not. The odd part for me is that a coach like Kelly seems to be perfect for Vick but I think it is too late for him. I think the play calling changed drastically from Vick to Foles much like from Mcnabb to whoever replaced him. I don't think you will see that now. I really don't expect Vick to be around this year. I think Barkley is going to get a long look and may be the guy Kelly runs with.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 5 2013, 09:24 PM) *
I think the play calling changed drastically from Vick to Foles much like from Mcnabb to whoever replaced him.

I've been saying this the whole time. It is a relief that I'm not the only one to notice this. jumpclap.gif
Eyrie
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ May 5 2013, 04:44 PM) *
My question is what are the cap implications if Vick does not start? I can't imagine they keep him and I can't believe that there will be much of a trade market for him. If Barkley comes as advertised I think Kelly starts him right away. This is a guy who not only has started every where he has gone but he called his own plays in college according to Ray Diddinger. That is pretty impressive. I think that kind of pedigree bodes well for his chances and if he is going to be the guy going forward Kelly has nothing to lose starting him in a season where he gets a mulligan in a league rife with rookie starters through recent years.


Very often a rookie QB will struggle because he's on a poor team, which is why it makes sense to start a more experienced player to begin with (ie McNabb sitting behind Pederson). On that basis Foles will get the nod to allow Kelly's system to bed in whilst Barkley gets used to the demands of the NFL.

But I don't think we are a poor offense. The return of Peters and Kelce combined with the addition of Johnson gives us a strong OL to protect a rookie, Jackson, Macklin, Avant, Celek and Casey provide reliable targets (as should Ertz) and McCoy and Brown (assuming he protects the ball) will take the pressure off the passing game. Add Kelly's playcalling and it's as good a situation as a rookie could wish for.

I'm coming round to the idea that Barkley is serious competition for Foles this year in week one rather than late season.
Eyrie
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ May 6 2013, 01:57 AM) *
Interesting stat, with the same line up he's been practicing with since training camp. Again, continuity matters.

As I've pointed out before, that counts against Vick. Not only did he spend all of his time practising with the same group, that group was our top talent and not the back ups and scrubs that Foles was playing with. Foles did better with the backups than Vick did with the starters.

QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ May 6 2013, 03:05 AM) *
I've been saying this the whole time. It is a relief that I'm not the only one to notice this. jumpclap.gif

Which undermines your point, because Vick needs a very different offense to Foles and Barkley. There is no point to installing a system for one player who will only be here for a year and is likely to miss games because his style of play makes him an injury risk. Instead the offense will suit Foles and Barkley for two reasons - they are the future and it means that little alteration is required in the event of injury of loss of form.

Worth remembering that the other offensive players will also be learning the system and that Kelly runs a very high tempo offense, so everyone has to know what they're doing at all times - which means keeping it relatively simple and consistent.
Zero
QUOTE (Eyrie @ May 6 2013, 05:49 AM) *
Worth remembering that the other offensive players will also be learning the system and that Kelly runs a very high tempo offense, so everyone has to know what they're doing at all times - which means keeping it relatively simple and consistent.

Brilliant anaysis! Are you OK? devil03.gif
Eyrie
QUOTE (Zero @ May 6 2013, 11:27 AM) *
Brilliant anaysis! Are you OK? devil03.gif

I apologise for deviating from my usual DKD nonsense biggrin.gif
Zero
biggrin.gif Now I need to try
iggleslover49
QUOTE (Eyrie @ May 6 2013, 05:49 AM) *
As I've pointed out before, that counts against Vick. Not only did he spend all of his time practising with the same group, that group was our top talent and not the back ups and scrubs that Foles was playing with. Foles did better with the backups than Vick did with the starters.


Which undermines your point, because Vick needs a very different offense to Foles and Barkley. There is no point to installing a system for one player who will only be here for a year and is likely to miss games because his style of play makes him an injury risk. Instead the offense will suit Foles and Barkley for two reasons - they are the future and it means that little alteration is required in the event of injury of loss of form.

Worth remembering that the other offensive players will also be learning the system and that Kelly runs a very high tempo offense, so everyone has to know what they're doing at all times - which means keeping it relatively simple and consistent.

Your right. bowdown.gif some guys you just can't tell anything....
D Rock
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ May 8 2013, 02:07 AM) *
Your right. bowdown.gif some guys you just can't tell anything....

You're

iggleslover49
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 7 2013, 10:28 PM) *
You're

Sorry... You're...
samaroo
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 7 2013, 09:28 PM) *
You're


I don't think that's an unfinished sentence. I know it sums up my feelings of your analysis of Vick quite succinctly. cool.gif
Eyrie
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ May 8 2013, 03:07 AM) *
Your right. bowdown.gif some guys you just can't tell anything....

I can't tell you and you can't tell me ...

Tell you what - let's agree that's what's important is that the players are paying full attention to Kelly and his coaches smile.gif
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