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iggleslover49
We now have Ertz, Celek, and Casey on the roster, not to mention we still got Harbor. Many guys wonder if Celek's job is now in danger. I don't believe so. Instead I think Kelly wants to run a three tightend offense, kinda like the one shown in this article.

http://www.footballtimes.org/Printer.asp?ID=218

Ofcourse with his own little twist. Imagine us running out of this thing with Shady and Brown. Or letting Djax be that lone receiver as the deep threat or hitting defenses up with reverses and the TEs blocking. Flexing TE's out against LB's and burnin em'. This isn't a read option offense, literally any QB on our roster can run this. And this is up Foles and Barkley's ally right here. The thought of such an offense really does excite me. Yet, at the same time we still got the WRs to run a conventional offense if teams try to stop this. Just a little food for thought.
Eyrie
We'll keep four and no FB. Celek is the traditional TE, Casey the H-Back and Ertz a WR type, so each offers something different.
JeeQ
Multiple TE offenses are the wave of the future. Not surprised it's Chip line of thinking. Strong, heavy TEs beat up small CBs. We should know that better than anyone
nephillymike
Since we have no LB's that can cover TE's, these guys will get a lot of confidence in practice!!

I heard they said we'll put three TE's on the field. If they go with extra DB we'll pound them. If they go with LB's, we'll throw over the top of them.

I like it.

AND

If they happen to have our three TE's covered, we'll call a tackle eligible and throw it to the former TE who wil be playing RT for us!!!
make_it_rain
This is a byproduct of Goodell's pussification of the game and the emphasis on not hitting defenseless receivers. Defenders can't simply lay out guys going over the middle anymore, so an offense that features a lot of big, athletic tight ends is going to create a lot of problems in coverage.

We certainly are stockpiling TEs though. I've given up on trying to figure out what Chip's going to do. At this point, I'm excited to just sit back and enjoy the show.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ Apr 27 2013, 03:45 PM) *
This is a byproduct of Goodell's pussification of the game and the emphasis on not hitting defenseless receivers. Defenders can't simply lay out guys going over the middle anymore, so an offense that features a lot of big, athletic tight ends is going to create a lot of problems in coverage.

We certainly are stockpiling TEs though. I've given up on trying to figure out what Chip's going to do. At this point, I'm excited to just sit back and enjoy the show.


Well said. Belichick is said to have used some of Kelly's ideas in his juggernaut offense, which features 2 killer TE threats. It's obvious that this is all part of Kelly's plan, I think we're going to see more reliance on the TE than we've had since Chad Lewis was here.
Zero
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 27 2013, 02:37 PM) *
... Ertz a WR type

A 255 - 260 lb WR! I've heard he's similar to Witten and I've heard Dallas Clark. I never considered those two the same so I guess he could be a WR. devil03.gif
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 27 2013, 03:41 PM) *
If they happen to have our three TE's covered, we'll call a tackle eligible and throw it to the former TE who wil be playing RT for us!!!

jumpclap.gif
Zero
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ Apr 27 2013, 03:45 PM) *
We certainly are stockpiling TEs though. I've given up on trying to figure out what Chip's going to do. At this point, I'm excited to just sit back and enjoy the show.

Plus, he's added big receivers: Benn 6'2" 220 and Momah 6'6" 229. We still have Cooper and McNutt who are 6'+.
iggleslover49
How in the hell we gonna use all these guys? Is what I'm wondering. Just when I thought we had enough talent, we go in and just keep stacking it up. A lot of the back ups are starting material. I like Maclin and Djax, but as of last year I like cooper too. In fact last year, by the end of the year, I liked cooper more than Maclin. It's a great problem to have, but damn I don't want other teams scooping up our talent after we cut em'. Benn signed a two year. Momah signed a two year. We got 3 TE's that aren't going anywhere, but we only got 53 spots. This an interesting offseason.
nephillymike
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Apr 27 2013, 07:31 PM) *
How in the hell we gonna use all these guys? Is what I'm wondering. Just when I thought we had enough talent, we go in and just keep stacking it up. A lot of the back ups are starting material. I like Maclin and Djax, but as of last year I like cooper too. In fact last year, by the end of the year, I liked cooper more than Maclin. It's a great problem to have, but damn I don't want other teams scooping up our talent after we cut em'. Benn signed a two year. Momah signed a two year. We got 3 TE's that aren't going anywhere, but we only got 53 spots. This an interesting offseason.



I hear this from others too.

why the Cooper love? Other than blowing the last play of the playoff game, what has he done? How many catches does he have? Not many.

He's got a lot to prove to me.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 27 2013, 11:44 PM) *
I hear this from others too.

why the Cooper love? Other than blowing the last play of the playoff game, what has he done? How many catches does he have? Not many.

He's got a lot to prove to me.

Because Cooper plays tougher than Mac. I can think of a couple games Mac has dropped the ball AND fumbled the ball in clutch situations, nor does he play to his size; DJAX showed more toughness last year than Mac. Cooper never goes down before getting knocked down, never runs outta bounds, gets yards after the catch, and was EASILY the best run blocking WR we had and not just getting his hands on guys, he's a mauler and I can remember guys getting mad and trying to fight him because he's mauled them. Those who talk negatively about him aren't watching our WRs close enough. Not to mention he's a beast on special teams.
Eyrie
That makes Cooper good depth rather than someone who should replace Macklin as a starter - he has to earn that spot and hasn't shown enough to do so.

But we have plenty of talent for Foles and Barkley to throw the ball to now.

TE - Celek, Casey, Ertz, Harbor
WR - Jackson, Macklin, Avant, Cooper, Benn, Johnson

I think Moomah and Ikwenagu will end up on the practice squad and McNutt will be the unlucky one. The rest of the TEs and WRs are camp bodies.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 28 2013, 06:27 AM) *
That makes Cooper good depth rather than someone who should replace Macklin as a starter - he has to earn that spot and hasn't shown enough to do so.

But we have plenty of talent for Foles and Barkley to throw the ball to now.

TE - Celek, Casey, Ertz, Harbor
WR - Jackson, Macklin, Avant, Cooper, Benn, Johnson

I think Moomah and Ikwenagu will end up on the practice squad and McNutt will be the unlucky one. The rest of the TEs and WRs are camp bodies.

Sure if you just wanna go with the player that has more potential. But cooper plays harder than Maclin.

I will say this, his ass better toughin up this season, or Cooper or Benn will take his spot. We are running the ball this year. So he better man up and play to his size.

As for the roster. Dear I say, I think avant is in danger of losing that slot position and ikwenagu is on the way out. Moomah might make the roster if his route running matches up with measurable s and speed.
GQSmooth
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Apr 27 2013, 01:57 PM) *
We now have Ertz, Celek, and Casey on the roster, not to mention we still got Harbor. Many guys wonder if Celek's job is now in danger. I don't believe so. Instead I think Kelly wants to run a three tightend offense, kinda like the one shown in this article.

http://www.footballtimes.org/Printer.asp?ID=218

Ofcourse with his own little twist. Imagine us running out of this thing with Shady and Brown. Or letting Djax be that lone receiver as the deep threat or hitting defenses up with reverses and the TEs blocking. Flexing TE's out against LB's and burnin em'. This isn't a read option offense, literally any QB on our roster can run this. And this is up Foles and Barkley's ally right here. The thought of such an offense really does excite me. Yet, at the same time we still got the WRs to run a conventional offense if teams try to stop this. Just a little food for thought.


Awesome article. One thing I notice in the first play diagram. There is no one accounting for the QB in the defense. A four man front for five blockers and the defense is playing everyone but the QB. Chip would take advantage.
JaxEagle
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ Apr 27 2013, 03:45 PM) *
This is a byproduct of Goodell's pussification of the game

Perfectly said. I hate eliminating the Kickoff return from the game.
VICKtory
I remember a few times McCoy yelling at Maclin for his lack of effort in blocking. Don't think that's gonna fly with Chippy, I would not be surprised to see Maclin traded or at the least see fewer snaps
Eyrie
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Apr 28 2013, 02:35 PM) *
Sure if you just wanna go with the player that has more potential. But cooper plays harder than Maclin.

I will say this, his ass better toughin up this season, or Cooper or Benn will take his spot. We are running the ball this year. So he better man up and play to his size.

As for the roster. Dear I say, I think avant is in danger of losing that slot position and ikwenagu is on the way out. Moomah might make the roster if his route running matches up with measurable s and speed.

Macklin is far ahead of Cooper on production - potential has nothing to do with it. But I fully agree that effort will determine whether Macklin earns an extension or is allowed to leave when his contract expires after this year (as I indicated this morning, a WR is high on my expected needs for 2014).

Until I see someone as reliable as Avant on third down I'm hanging on to him as a safety blanket.
samaroo
I'm gonna say that I think Chip likes matchups, smarts and effort, and Cooper has all three. I wouldn't count him out in this new era. He could be our Avant of the future.
GQSmooth
QUOTE (samaroo @ May 1 2013, 10:00 PM) *
I'm gonna say that I think Chip likes matchups, smarts and effort, and Cooper has all three. I wouldn't count him out in this new era. He could be our Avant of the future.

I predict Cooper doesn't make the roster this year. They drafted him bc Howie loved him at his alma mater in Fla.. I always thought Cooper would be a red zone threat, but he never developed skill for jump ball. Guess what another site has comparisons of position percentiles for each position in graphic form. Cooper can't jump. I can't see how he fits in Kelly's offense.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (GQSmooth @ May 1 2013, 10:33 PM) *
I predict Cooper doesn't make the roster this year. They drafted him bc Howie loved him at his alma mater in Fla.. I always thought Cooper would be a red zone threat, but he never developed skill for jump ball. Guess what another site has comparisons of position percentiles for each position in graphic form. Cooper can't jump. I can't see how he fits in Kelly's offense.

I predict he will. Howie didn't draft Cooper to make plays. He was drafted because he's physical and that's why Chip will keep him too. Cooper never was known for making plays, he was known for being a good run blocker for Tim Tebow and the running game, until proven otherwise he's still best run blocking wr we have and that definitely fits Kelly's system. Why would you say Cooper can't jump? Everytime I seen him jump with somebody he comes down with the ball. Plus, he's willing to go all in on special teams.

I think it's official. Cooper is underrated. And I like him more than any wr on the roster other than Avant. He's a complete football player. He won't wow you with djax type plays, but the effort he brings to the field is why I like him and is probably why the organization is so high on him.
samaroo
My counter-argument to that would be that Chip seems to care less about measurables and more about intangibles. I wouldn't put money down either way, but I like Cooper. And this is from a long-time hater of all things Gater.

Ha! I rhymed!
Bocadelphia Eagles John
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Apr 27 2013, 08:31 PM) *
How in the hell we gonna use all these guys?


With all these bodies I suppose Celek will play center from time to time .... just to get the bodies on the damn field !!!!

Man, we ARE stacked !!!

Feels good .... like a centerfold should !!!!!!

Gosh ... jumpclap.gif laugh.gif biggrin.gif
GQSmooth
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ May 1 2013, 10:55 PM) *
I predict he will. Howie didn't draft Cooper to make plays. He was drafted because he's physical and that's why Chip will keep him too. Cooper never was known for making plays, he was known for being a good run blocker for Tim Tebow and the running game, until proven otherwise he's still best run blocking wr we have and that definitely fits Kelly's system. Why would you say Cooper can't jump? Everytime I seen him jump with somebody he comes down with the ball. Plus, he's willing to go all in on special teams.

I think it's official. Cooper is underrated. And I like him more than any wr on the roster other than Avant. He's a complete football player. He won't wow you with djax type plays, but the effort he brings to the field is why I like him and is probably why the organization is so high on him.

Here is the linkRiley Profile. Riley has size, smarts but all the WRs brought in since Chip arrived have a similar size but thicker built. More than any other WR on roster Cooper has competition. He hasn't distinguished himself enough. I see DJax, Maclin and Avant making it. Maclin and Avant in their last year unless they distinguish themselves (I love Avant not sure he fits Chip). Chip values speed too much at skill positions, Riley has to bring something else to table because he is not a gifted athlete and his athleticism likely has limited upside at this point in his career.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (GQSmooth @ May 2 2013, 07:19 AM) *
Here is the linkRiley Profile. Riley has size, smarts but all the WRs brought in since Chip arrived have a similar size but thicker built. More than any other WR on roster Cooper has competition. He hasn't distinguished himself enough. I see DJax, Maclin and Avant making it. Maclin and Avant in their last year unless they distinguish themselves (I love Avant not sure he fits Chip). Chip values speed too much at skill positions, Riley has to bring something else to table because he is not a gifted athlete and his athleticism likely has limited upside at this point in his career.

I don't really care about his draft credentials to be honest, and your right he does have plenty of competition. That being said, Avant definitely has more competition than any WR. He's a slot guy, that doesn't have the speed chip likes at slot+he's the oldest WR, with the least amount of upside on the roster. I wouldn't be surprised to see Damaris Johnson taking his spot in the slot because Kelly likes speed at the slot, unless ofcourse he goes with a tightend there. Hell, I think we may even see Djax in the slot this season. And Avant playing on the outside, I doubt will happen, waaayyyy too much comptetition out there.
Eyrie
To paraphrase - "All that Avant does is convert third downs".

Which keeps our punter and the opposition offense on the sidelines.
GQSmooth
QUOTE (Eyrie @ May 2 2013, 12:54 PM) *
To paraphrase - "All that Avant does is convert third downs".

Which keeps our punter and the opposition offense on the sidelines.

Exactly why I think Avant stays, best hands in the league. Avant's hands are on the same level as Chris Carter.
samaroo
Ha! All Carter did was catch touchdowns, and all Avant does is catch first downs! laugh.gif
iggleslover49
QUOTE (Eyrie @ May 2 2013, 12:54 PM) *
To paraphrase - "All that Avant does is convert third downs".

Which keeps our punter and the opposition offense on the sidelines.

That's the problem. We need someone to convert third downs AND score points. As good as avant is, he's not a threat.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (GQSmooth @ May 2 2013, 04:13 PM) *
Exactly why I think Avant stays, best hands in the league. Avant's hands are on the same level as Chris Carter.

Come on man. Lets not exaggerate. There's plenty hands in the league better than his. You act like he NEVER drops the ball.
Eyrie
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ May 3 2013, 05:23 AM) *
That's the problem. We need someone to convert third downs AND score points. As good as avant is, he's not a threat.

And how many players in the NFL can consistently and reliably do both?

Avant's routes and sure-handedness on third downs keep drives alive for the likes of Jackson and McCoy to get the six points.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ May 2 2013, 11:25 PM) *
Come on man. Lets not exaggerate. There's plenty hands in the league better than his. You act like he NEVER drops the ball.

Nope. Best hands in the game.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 3 2013, 08:59 AM) *
Nope. Best hands in the game.

He is the best hands in the game, at that price tag.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (Eyrie @ May 3 2013, 07:15 AM) *
And how many players in the NFL can consistently and reliably do both?

Avant's routes and sure-handedness on third downs keep drives alive for the likes of Jackson and McCoy to get the six points.

Roddy White is an outside guy that is more consistent, converting third downs AND scoring. Wes Welker is an inside guy that is more consistent,converting third downs AND scoring.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (Phits @ May 3 2013, 09:03 AM) *
He is the best hands in the game, at that price tag.

I'd go for that. But best hands period? I seen him drop quite a few balls last season. Foles even nailed him in the face on one.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ May 3 2013, 08:10 AM) *
Roddy White is an outside guy that is more consistent, converting third downs AND scoring. Wes Welker is an inside guy that is more consistent,converting third downs AND scoring.

Oh yeah, there is nothing different about the guys throwing the ball to Roddy White and Wes Welker compared to what Avant has been working with.

Avant's hands are exponentially better than Welker.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 3 2013, 09:21 AM) *
Avant's hands are exponentially better than Welker.

Based on what criteria? Your opinion?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ May 3 2013, 08:33 AM) *
Based on what criteria? Your opinion?

Watching Welker drop tons of passes. Or the fact that he led the league in drops in 2012.

Or the fact that Jason Avant had zero drops that season. So it's an opinion. And fact.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/...wide-receivers/

Edit: Seems like this put that conversation to rest smile.gif
iggleslover49
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 3 2013, 09:21 AM) *
Oh yeah, there is nothing different about the guys throwing the ball to Roddy White and Wes Welker compared to what Avant has been working with.

Avant's hands are exponentially better than Welker.

I remember hearing about Welker catching 125 plus catches, I think das consistency. Avant will never do that. As for QB's, I give it to Brady, Matt Ryan? He's overrated in my book. And he throws some passes in there, but he looks good cause Roddy makes him look good.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ May 3 2013, 08:38 AM) *
I remember hearing about Welker catching 125 plus catches, I think das consistency. Avant will never do that. As for QB's, I give it to Brady, Matt Ryan? He's overrated in my book. And he throws some passes in there, but he looks good cause Roddy makes him look good.

It's difficult to give much credence to your opinion on QB's when you think Vick is a capable one wink.gif
iggleslover49
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 3 2013, 09:43 AM) *
It's difficult to give much credence to your opinion on QB's when you think Vick is a capable one wink.gif

biggrin.gif I know. I view the game differently than most. But as much as people talk about Vick. I seen Vick lead more come backs than Matt Ryan. And also seen Matt Ryan nut up in the playoffs repeatedly; ask any Falcons fan about THAT. They won't get excited about a 12 win season cause they KNOW what the deal is.
samaroo
As much shit as we get, Falcons fans are the worst. I've never known louder, more annoying fans when they are winning, who disappear when they don't.
nephillymike
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ May 3 2013, 08:13 AM) *
I'd go for that. But best hands period? I seen him drop quite a few balls last season. Foles even nailed him in the face on one.



I agree with this. the thing most notable to me re Avant was the block he threw on Jackson's punt return. He's OK. Nothing more IMO.
Phits
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 3 2013, 12:57 PM) *
I agree with this. the thing most notable to me re Avant was the block he threw on Jackson's punt return. He's OK. Nothing more IMO.

I thought so as well. The link that McNabb. provided suggests the contrary:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/...wide-receivers/

According to the site, we have the most sure handed WR in the NFL. Keep in mind, great hands doesn't mean you're an elite receiver, but it is a fine asset. On the flip side Welker, Megatron and B.Marshall seemed to suffer from the "dropsies" finishing 1,2,3 in the league in drops. That said, i would switch Avant with any of those wide outs and suffer through the dropped passes smile.gif
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ May 3 2013, 12:27 PM) *
I thought so as well. The link that McNabb. provided suggests the contrary:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/...wide-receivers/

According to the site, we have the most sure handed WR in the NFL. Keep in mind, great hands doesn't mean you're an elite receiver, but it is a fine asset. On the flip side Welker, Megatron and B.Marshall seemed to suffer from the "dropsies" finishing 1,2,3 in the league in drops. That said, i would switch Avant with any of those wide outs and suffer through the dropped passes smile.gif

Oh, no doubt. Avant is a limited athlete. I do think better QB play would result in a making him a more consistent threat, but the guy has the best hands in football. It's without question.

I'd take countless receivers ahead of him, but his pure catching ability can't be denied. Not only is he sure handed, but he has made some of the most remarkable catches I've ever seen.
samaroo
I agree with both posts above, but also think that C. Johnson and Co. also had a lot more attempts, thus giving them more opportunities to drop balls.

Avant has been the most reliable WR we've had recently, the one I'm most comfortable us throwing to in clutch situations.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Phits @ May 3 2013, 12:27 PM) *
I thought so as well. The link that McNabb. provided suggests the contrary:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/...wide-receivers/

According to the site, we have the most sure handed WR in the NFL. Keep in mind, great hands doesn't mean you're an elite receiver, but it is a fine asset. On the flip side Welker, Megatron and B.Marshall seemed to suffer from the "dropsies" finishing 1,2,3 in the league in drops. That said, i would switch Avant with any of those wide outs and suffer through the dropped passes smile.gif



Wow. Pretty impressive. would have never known.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (samaroo @ May 3 2013, 04:02 PM) *
I agree with both posts above, but also think that C. Johnson and Co. also had a lot more attempts, thus giving them more opportunities to drop balls.

Avant has been the most reliable WR we've had recently, the one I'm most comfortable us throwing to in clutch situations.


I crunched some numbers to extrapolate Avants drops based on drop % had he been afforded as many attempts as Welker and CJ...

Still zero.
samaroo
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 3 2013, 06:38 PM) *
I crunched some numbers to extrapolate Avants drops based on drop % had he been afforded as many attempts as Welker and CJ...

Still zero.


That settles it, I'm getting an Avant jersey!
biggrin.gif

I really do think that Cooper can fill this role going forward. He does seem the type that Chip likes. If a fast TE can cause matchup problems, why not a big WR?
GQSmooth
QUOTE (samaroo @ May 3 2013, 07:57 PM) *
That settles it, I'm getting an Avant jersey!
biggrin.gif

I really do think that Cooper can fill this role going forward. He does seem the type that Chip likes. If a fast TE can cause matchup problems, why not a big WR?

Because Chip just brought in 3 big WR's, he is not happy with Cooper.
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