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nephillymike
They are on the clock!!

A QB I'm guessing but hoping not.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 27 2013, 12:06 PM) *
They are on the clock!!

A QB I'm guessing but hoping not.


wacko.gif

Barkley
nephillymike
Wow.

I hope he can rush the passer or cover WR's.

Who gets traded?

what did we give up?
mcnabbulous
Gave up one of our 4 7ths
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 27 2013, 11:20 AM) *
Gave up one of our 4 7ths



At least we didn't give up anything of value.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 27 2013, 11:23 AM) *
At least we didn't give up anything of value.


We just got a guy that would have been a top-15 pick last year. If we had given up something of value, it would have been worth it.
Eyrie
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 27 2013, 05:25 PM) *
We just got a guy that would have been a top-15 pick last year. If we had given up something of value, it would have been worth it.

Why is he now only a fourth round pick in a year of poor QBs? Genuine question - don't know much about him other than that he seems to be closer to Foles than Vick in his skill set, which can only be good news for the starting QB job and would suggest that our offense will prioritise good decision making and accuracy.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 27 2013, 01:33 PM) *
Why is he now only a fourth round pick in a year of poor QBs? Genuine question - don't know much about him other than that he seems to be closer to Foles than Vick in his skill set, which can only be good news for the starting QB job and would suggest that our offense will prioritise good decision making and accuracy.


Chip claims they had a top-50 grade on him, which would be a second round grade. The guy is smart, a leader, and accomplished. It's a great selection.
USC severely disappointed this year, which is why he fell, but his coach was a dysfunctional asshole. So that's where I put the blame.
Eyrie
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 27 2013, 07:44 PM) *
Chip claims they had a top-50 grade on him, which would be a second round grade. The guy is smart, a leader, and accomplished. It's a great selection.
USC severely disappointed this year, which is why he fell, but his coach was a dysfunctional asshole. So that's where I put the blame.

So it was a poor senior season in a poor team?

Thanks for the info. Still don't like the pick but at least you've given me a little optimism.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 27 2013, 02:47 PM) *
So it was a poor senior season in a poor team?

Thanks for the info. Still don't like the pick but at least you've given me a little optimism.

Who would you have rather us taken?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 27 2013, 01:47 PM) *
So it was a poor senior season in a poor team?

Thanks for the info. Still don't like the pick but at least you've given me a little optimism.

Poor in relation to expectations. He still threw for 36 TD's and 15 INT's. Compared to 39/7 as a Junior when he was considered in the same league as Andrew Luck.

He's considered to be a great leader and gym rat (unlike the previous 2 QB's to come out of USC.)

I love the pick. He's better than Foles and that will be apparent pretty quickly. A guy with this much skill and a chip on his shoulder is a fantastic situation. He'll be our starter by next year.

Taking a QB with this much upside in the 4th is a no-brainer. It's clear we didn't have a QB before this. I'm glad our coaching staff and front office realized it too.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 27 2013, 02:24 PM) *
It's clear we didn't have a QB before this. I'm glad our coaching staff and front office realized it too.



Now now now!! If they didn't think we had a QB, it sure took them a hell of a long time to figure it out!!!

It was a value pick. Too good to pass up.

Maybe their actions in the near future will tell us otherwise.

We'll see.

Nothing against Barkley. I just don't think they waited until the 4th round b/c they needed a QB.

Well see.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 27 2013, 02:38 PM) *
Now now now!! If they didn't think we had a QB, it sure took them a hell of a long time to figure it out!!!

It was a value pick. Too good to pass up.

Maybe their actions in the near future will tell us otherwise.

We'll see.

Nothing against Barkley. I just don't think they waited until the 4th round b/c they needed a QB.

Well see.

If they were drafting BPA, need is out of the equation. I'm not sure what you don't get about that. They said Barkley was the only remaining top-50 player when they picked at the top of the 4th. Prior to that, it sounds like that position/rating combo didn't match up.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 27 2013, 03:13 PM) *
If they were drafting BPA, need is out of the equation. I'm not sure what you don't get about that. They said Barkley was the only remaining top-50 player when they picked at the top of the 4th. Prior to that, it sounds like that position/rating combo didn't match up.


You just made my point. The fact that he was the highest rated player, if they used BPA without regard to position, does absolutley nothing to support the assertion that they felt they needed a QB. It could have been a OT or RB and they wold have selected the BPA at that spot. Thus my point that it was a vlue pick they couldn't resist as pposed to an evaluation that they needed a QB. Do you see my point??
Eyrie
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Apr 27 2013, 07:51 PM) *
Who would you have rather us taken?

We have a gaping hole at OLB with only Baldwin a proven player and both Cole and Graham will have to learn the position. Haven't studied the draft in much depth this year, but you can't tell me there wasn't a decent prospect there?
Eyrie
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 27 2013, 08:24 PM) *
Poor in relation to expectations. He still threw for 36 TD's and 15 INT's. Compared to 39/7 as a Junior when he was considered in the same league as Andrew Luck.

He's considered to be a great leader and gym rat (unlike the previous 2 QB's to come out of USC.)

I love the pick. He's better than Foles and that will be apparent pretty quickly. A guy with this much skill and a chip on his shoulder is a fantastic situation. He'll be our starter by next year.

Taking a QB with this much upside in the 4th is a no-brainer. It's clear we didn't have a QB before this. I'm glad our coaching staff and front office realized it too.

I'm comfortable having competition between him and Foles, and like that they will thrive in a similar offense. One of my concerns was how Kelly could design a playbook that would both maximise Foles' production and make Vick look effective.

Just not sure that I have your faith in a fourth round pick that thirty two teams have each passed on three times.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 27 2013, 04:50 PM) *
Just not sure that I have your faith in a fourth round pick that thirty two teams have each passed on three times.


You're confusing my happiness with the process and faith. I believe in taking a QB until you're sure you have one. I'm quite certain Foles isn't that guy and I'm unsatisfied waiting to find out. When you have a chance to get a guy like Barkley at that point in the process, it's a must. If I watch him this year and observe that he isn't the guy, I'll be pounding the table for 1 or 2 guys next year too.
Zero
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 27 2013, 05:50 PM) *
I'm comfortable having competition between him and Foles, and like that they will thrive in a similar offense. One of my concerns was how Kelly could design a playbook that would both maximise Foles' production and make Vick look effective.

Just not sure that I have your faith in a fourth round pick that thirty two teams have each passed on three times.

For me, it's not so much the player as the apparent approach they're taking to building a new team. The draft seems consistent with the FA signings: upside, talent and versatility. Doesn't that look like the theme to you?
iggleslover49
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 27 2013, 05:50 PM) *
Just not sure that I have your faith in a fourth round pick that thirty two teams have each passed on three times.

I know it cliché, but look at Tom Brady. Some football guys say he's the best QB ever. Drafted in the 7th. Kaepernick and Wilson in the 3rd. On the flip side we seen a ton of 1st round guys bust out. It doesn't matter where these guys are taken. The only thing that matters is skill set and how these guys are played and are used. Those guys that passed on him are fools. EJ Manuel had the highest draft grade of all these QB's? How?
samaroo
None of our picks were what anybody thought they would be, so either our FO and new coach suck...
Or this is our first foray into a new era that we are unfamiliar with...

Which I'm totally cool with, by the way.
Eyrie
@mcnabbulous - Fair enough, but you could end up taking a QB early every year and then discarding the player after two or three seasons because they're not a top level starter. At some point you have to be willing to commit to a QB and give them a chance to show what they can do. I disagree about giving up on Foles already - let's see what he does with a healthy OL and decent play calling and the same logic of course applies to Barkley.

@Zero - I think the comment in another thread about this being treated as a two year process is accurate. My own view on that is most of the pieces on offense are in place (except RT and QB), so it made sense to spend this year focussing on the defence and then target the offense next year. That would have given us the freedom to trade up for a QB if required. Instead the Eagles look to be patching both at once, which will mean a similar broad approach next year. Hopefully we can park the QB question until at least 2015 as 2014 will bring questions about OLB and Macklin.

@iggleslover - Brady often gets quoted in these discussions, but he's the exception. Most of the late round QBs hold a clipboard for a couple of seasons, then get replaced by the next mid/late round pick. It's not an approach to be relied on.

@samaroo - Fair point. Maybe I need to wait and see how Kelly's approach works before grumbling about it on here. But it's the off-season, so what else is there to grumble about? biggrin.gif
D Rock
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 27 2013, 08:38 PM) *
Now now now!! If they didn't think we had a QB, it sure took them a hell of a long time to figure it out!!!

It was a value pick. Too good to pass up.

Maybe their actions in the near future will tell us otherwise.

We'll see.

Nothing against Barkley. I just don't think they waited until the 4th round b/c they needed a QB.

Well see.

Agreed. I believe chip likes Foles.
Eyrie
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 28 2013, 06:56 PM) *
Agreed. I believe chip likes Foles.

I believe the pre-draft quote was "Kelly likes Geno Smith, but he really likes Foles".

Which only goes to confirm what some of us have said since Kelly got here.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 28 2013, 05:21 AM) *
@mcnabbulous - Fair enough, but you could end up taking a QB early every year and then discarding the player after two or three seasons because they're not a top level starter.
I'd have no qualms about doing so.
QUOTE
At some point you have to be willing to commit to a QB and give them a chance to show what they can do.
If you're committed to doing that, you're committed to mediocrity.
QUOTE
I disagree about giving up on Foles already - let's see what he does with a healthy OL and decent play calling and the same logic of course applies to Barkley.
I'm not giving up on Foles, because I never anointed him anything. I want healthy completion between Foles and another young QB. I'm near certain Barkley will prove to be the better candidate for the job. But if that turns out to be anything less than a very good starter, I'll be looking for the next guy almost immediately.


Eyrie
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 28 2013, 08:54 PM) *
If you're committed to doing that, you're committed to mediocrity.

But unless you give a QB a decent chance to show what he can do you'll never find out if he needs time to adapt to the professional game or is just mediocre.

Unless a player stinks, I'd look to give him two seasons. Foles had last year and may get this depending on his competition with Barkley. Anything after that is earned, although I'd accept a QB who is consistently top ten over ditching anyone who doesn't get ProBowl consideration.
mcnabbulous
In the modern era, it doesn't take long to see whether a guy has it or not. We'll know whether Foles or Barkley has it this year. I'm near certain of that.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 29 2013, 02:55 AM) *
In the modern era, it doesn't take long to see whether a guy has it or not. We'll know whether Foles or Barkley has it this year. I'm near certain of that.

You were also near certain that Geno phuqing Smith was a top 10 pick . . .

- just sayin -

cool.gif
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 28 2013, 08:56 PM) *
You were also near certain that Geno phuqing Smith was a top 10 pick . . .

- just sayin -

cool.gif


Just because I can't predict what a bunch like minded middle-aged white men are thinking, doesn't mean that when all is said and done, I'll have been wrong. Geno will have the production of a top-10 pick when all is said and done.
Eyrie
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 29 2013, 03:02 AM) *
Just because I can't predict what a bunch like minded middle-aged white men are thinking, doesn't mean that when all is said and done, I'll have been wrong. Geno will have the production of a top-10 pick when all is said and done.

I think you need to rephrase that before someone impolitely mentions Ryan Leaf and Tim Couch ohmy.gif

As long as Foles or Barkley make the other 31 teams wish they'd taken them in the top ten I'll be happy.
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Apr 27 2013, 09:04 PM) *
I know it cliché, but look at Tom Brady. Some football guys say he's the best QB ever. Drafted in the 7th. Kaepernick and Wilson in the 3rd. On the flip side we seen a ton of 1st round guys bust out. It doesn't matter where these guys are taken. The only thing that matters is skill set and how these guys are played and are used. Those guys that passed on him are fools. EJ Manuel had the highest draft grade of all these QB's? How?


re: Wilson, he paid the "black tax" and the "short tax"... he actually had numbers and performance to be in the top 3 (don't think he was the third QB taken, could be wrong w/o Googling it). I predict he will be in the top 3 of best QBs once Manning and Brady retire.
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