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mcnabbulous
I hope we take a flyer on him. Our secondary is absymal and he has lots of talent. Assuming he is around in the 5th, I hope we pull the trigger.

Edit: damn, I just read that he is a potential 2-3 round prospect. I'd potentially go up to 4, but I don't know that I'd spend more than that on him.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 12 2013, 03:20 PM) *
I hope we take a flyer on him. Our secondary is absymal and he has lots of talent. Assuming he is around in the 5th, I hope we pull the trigger.

Edit: damn, I just read that he is a potential 2-3 round prospect. I'd potentially go up to 4, but I don't know that I'd spend more than that on him.

Yeah. I don't see him getting past round 2 and I certainly wouldn't take him at 35.

GQSmooth
Were these posts before or after you saw he failed 10+ drug tests at LSU? You're not concerned he didn't care to avoid getting caught until it was time to get drafted.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (GQSmooth @ Apr 12 2013, 11:02 AM) *
Were these posts before or after you saw he failed 10+ drug tests at LSU? You're not concerned he didn't care to avoid getting caught until it was time to get drafted.

After. I don't care about college students smoking weed. I would be reluctant to spend something above a 4 on him, due to the chance of him continuing his pot smoking ways. But the fact that he loved smoking weed while in college is something I can completely relate to.
nephillymike
BTW, his pot smoking ways will fit right in with the NFL players.

There are plenty of NFL players who smoke pot.

Can't get into how I know, or who I know other than to say there are plenty of Eagles who indulge in the wacky weed and are very comfortable in letting it be known. And no, I don't smoke pot nor deal it. The drug tests in the NFL, as far as pot is concerned, are bogus.

As far as the prospect, he's not rated highly as a prospect. I go no higher than a fifth for him. He's in the 150-175 range of prospects. Not saying that someone won't take a reach for him. Hopefully it's not us.

GQSmooth
I don't care if they or he smokes pot, its knowing when he is going to be tested and still getting caught. Shows he is a selfish player.
chuckp
We're changing the D and getting bigger, he's what 5'9" with questions no thanks
iggleslover49
Matthieu is a big time player despite size. Willing tackler, good ball skills, and and strips the ball repeatedly, especially during gang tackle sessions and knows how to run with it when he gets it. He's just a good football player in general. If he's there in the 3rd and I was GM, I'm definitely taking him and making Boykin earn his spot at slot. If Boykin wins, then Boykin is the slot guy and Matthieu is the second slot guy in the dime package. But Matthieu IS better than Boykin is. Better college career at a younger age. Heisman candidate as a SOPHMORE.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (chuckp @ Apr 12 2013, 09:50 PM) *
We're changing the D and getting bigger, he's what 5'9" with questions no thanks

Boykin is 5'9", Matthieu is 5'11", size is a legit question, but if Boykin can play in Kelly's defense so can Matthieu. The character issues is another thing and can be fixed with the right environment, which is here.
chuckp
He is listed under 5'9" at the combine and 10 failed drug tests before being suspended lol that's major issues and he was from a major program LSU where he is from.....he'll be hurt all the time playing like he did in college, I would look at him in the 5th but would rather take a chance on that English guy who had a great workout then him
iggleslover49
LSU is still inferior to our program. The eagles don't have college students feeding him BS either. If he's hurt then he's hurt. I'd rather him play like that, than to play soft and avoid contact.(DRC) The fact you would say he'd get hurt for playing the game in a physical manner is BS in my opinion. Aren't you tired of watching guys try and protect the bodies? I am. I want physical corners that are willing to mix it up. Matthieu fits the bill. And I don't care as much as I used to about "high character" I WANT nastiness. Guys was saying the same thing about Jenoris Jenkins last season, in regards to trees. He then came out and had a great season and is the reason Fletcher is an Eagle.
chuckp
Dam bro didn't realize u were a family member of his lol, yeah I would look at him in the 5th round, Megatron, Julio Jones, and even Dez will tear him a new one
iggleslover49
QUOTE (chuckp @ Apr 13 2013, 11:42 AM) *
Dam bro didn't realize u were a family member of his lol, yeah I would look at him in the 5th round, Megatron, Julio Jones, and even Dez will tear him a new one

All those guys with the exception of dez will tear the top prospect, milliner, a new one. Those are elite receivers. Your putting them up against a guy who I would project to be a good 3rd string corner... Please let's keep it atleast a little realistic. Right now our starters are Williams and Fletcher. I think Calvin Johnson and Julio Jones will give THOSE guys a run for their money, much less an unproven rookie. Hell we already seen Calvin Johnson vs. Boykin. Wasn't pretty, guess we should cut him and upgrade him too, right?

I'm not saying Matthieu is elite. I AM saying that he is better than Boykin though. And the tape, will back up my whole argument. Take away the off the field issues and he's a first round pick.
chuckp
" Take away the off the field issues and he's a first round pick."

Now u sound crazier then Kiper and Mcshay lol
iggleslover49
QUOTE (chuckp @ Apr 13 2013, 05:31 PM) *
" Take away the off the field issues and he's a first round pick."

Now u sound crazier then Kiper and Mcshay lol

Lol das all you got? I guess ur argument has run completely dry...
chuckp
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Apr 13 2013, 09:32 PM) *
Lol das all you got? I guess ur argument has run completely dry...


LOL not sure what das is but I give in he will be a all pro then hall of fame
Reality Fan
QUOTE (chuckp @ Apr 14 2013, 08:41 AM) *
LOL not sure what das is but I give in he will be a all pro then hall of fame


I am still trying to figure out how anyone would try to defend a knucklehead like Mathieu. I he had that many issues when he he knew there was a focus on him and in an environment when he had to have babysitters what happens when he gets to the pros and can tell them to fuck off? He is definitely not worth any risk because he has demonstrated that he is an idiot.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 14 2013, 01:15 PM) *
I am still trying to figure out how anyone would try to defend a knucklehead like Mathieu. I he had that many issues when he he knew there was a focus on him and in an environment when he had to have babysitters what happens when he gets to the pros and can tell them to fuck off? He is definitely not worth any risk because he has demonstrated that he is an idiot.


Because 18-22 year olds are mostly idiots. The guy hasn't proven to be a threat to society. Just someone that likes weed.
If he was getting in fights at clubs, it would be a different story.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 14 2013, 06:52 PM) *
Because 18-22 year olds are mostly idiots. The guy hasn't proven to be a threat to society. Just someone that likes weed.
If he was getting in fights at clubs, it would be a different story.

Agreed. It's not like he was drowning dogs or anything like that.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 14 2013, 01:52 PM) *
Because 18-22 year olds are mostly idiots. The guy hasn't proven to be a threat to society. Just someone that likes weed.
If he was getting in fights at clubs, it would be a different story.


don't get me wrong...I get that at that age you make dumb mistakes but not 10 times and not when you get that many warnings and still fuck up.....That is not a dumb mistake, it is a pattern that demonstrates a total lack of brain power....this guy obviously has serious troubles and is not worth even a little risk for the Eagles right now....they have their hands full as it is.
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 14 2013, 05:41 PM) *
don't get me wrong...I get that at that age you make dumb mistakes but not 10 times and not when you get that many warnings and still fuck up.....That is not a dumb mistake, it is a pattern that demonstrates a total lack of brain power....this guy obviously has serious troubles and is not worth even a little risk for the Eagles right now....they have their hands full as it is.



I agree 100%.

This is not a misprint!!
JaxEagle
Mathieu = no thanks
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 14 2013, 05:41 PM) *
don't get me wrong...I get that at that age you make dumb mistakes but not 10 times and not when you get that many warnings and still fuck up.....That is not a dumb mistake, it is a pattern that demonstrates a total lack of brain power....this guy obviously has serious troubles and is not worth even a little risk for the Eagles right now....they have their hands full as it is.


I guarantee I smoked as much as, if not more weed than Mathieu in college. And I turned out okay. Hell, I may even think more highly of Geno Smith than him. If he's not a total piece of shit, he'll be alright.
samaroo
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 14 2013, 11:30 PM) *
I guarantee I smoked as much as, if not more weed than Mathieu in college. [b]And I turned out okay.[b/] Hell, I may even think more highly of Geno Smith than him. If he's not a total piece of shit, he'll be alright.


A statement sure to be debated shortly! laugh.gif

I do agree with you, however. "Getting in trouble" in college is a misguided statement in my opinion. Smoking pot when you're 18 is not the worst offense. But san argument can be made for the lack of foresight of someone not willing to quit when given the opportunity of a lifetime. But, personally, I'm okay with it.

But for the record, I would rather draft a physically gifted Eagle Scout. biggrin.gif
HOUSEoPAIN
Can't they build a contract around him passing drug tests? If so, why not sign him? And if he fails one or gets in trouble then he's gone, no risk.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 15 2013, 02:33 PM) *
Can't they build a contract around him passing drug tests? If so, why not sign him? And if he fails one or gets in trouble then he's gone, no risk.

I think it's primarily around wasting a premium draft pick. I wouldn't do so for more than a 4.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 14 2013, 10:30 PM) *
I guarantee I smoked as much as, if not more weed than Mathieu in college. And I turned out okay. Hell, I may even think more highly of Geno Smith than him. If he's not a total piece of shit, he'll be alright.



I am not shocked but beyond the obvious jokes that could accompany this you were not at a top division one program under scholarship and made painfully aware that your current stay was dependent on you passing drug tests to stay in school and on track to provide for the rest of your life and more importantly....he happily ignored that his team needed him.....stunning that anyone could defend the extent of his bad behavior
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 15 2013, 10:12 PM) *
I am not shocked but beyond the obvious jokes that could accompany this you were not at a top division one program under scholarship and made painfully aware that your current stay was dependent on you passing drug tests to stay in school and on track to provide for the rest of your life and more importantly....he happily ignored that his team needed him.....stunning that anyone could defend the extent of his bad behavior


While I don't think he was chemically addicted to marijuana, I know people can have a mental addiction to it. I definitely went through a period when i always felt like I needed to do things while high. If he was an alcoholic or addicted to pain pills, he would have been afforded help and people would have felt sorry for him. The fact that he got caught 10 times should have been a sign to the university to help him out.
D Rock
I completely agree.

Do we know that the university failed to offer help?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 16 2013, 04:17 PM) *
I completely agree.

Do we know that the university failed to offer help?

Not sure.

From my perspective, it's simple. Weed is treated differently than other drugs. Especially in circumstances like this. It's considered goofy or irresponsible. But people do drugs (whether it be a handle of Jack Daniels, a shot of heroin, or smoking weed) for any number of reasons.

If the guy was smoking so much weed that he got caught 10 times, then it wasn't some casual behavior. Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, it should be treated like alcohol. The fact that it's not results in some to consider it "bad behavior." But at the end of the day, it's a drug addiction.

If he's not selling it, or running people over while driving high on it, I really don't give a shit.
Reality Fan
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2...-tests/2078755/

He even admits LSU gave him plenty of help.....

I am not saying he is a bad guy.....he is just not worth throwing a pick away on.......maybe as an UDFA.....nothing more and I am not even sure about that...
iggleslover49
Great conversation goin on. I understand the dynamic of he shouldn't have screwed up that much times. I smoke weed, but never had a problem putting it down to get a job. So the fact that he's had multiple chances has my attention.

But I also understand that people do change and do grow up. Sometimes it takes something drastic to happen before the light comes on. For me, it was the birth of my son.

For Matthieu if in fact he has changed, it could be that year away from the game. I understand that he had legitimate help in that year. If he's been clean for the majority of that year, chances are he's strong enough to say no indefinately. I truely believe that being a pro and being around certain types of people makes a difference. With that being said, someone will take a chance on him. People that make it seem like he's not talented, have never watched him. Dude made plays every game he was in the last year he played. Someone WILL get him.
D Rock
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Apr 17 2013, 02:23 AM) *
Great conversation goin on. I understand the dynamic of he shouldn't have screwed up that much times. I smoke weed, but never had a problem putting it down to get a job. So the fact that he's had multiple chances has my attention.

But I also understand that people do change and do grow up. Sometimes it takes something drastic to happen before the light comes on. For me, it was the birth of my son.

For Matthieu if in fact he has changed, it could be that year away from the game. I understand that he had legitimate help in that year. If he's been clean for the majority of that year, chances are he's strong enough to say no indefinately. I truely believe that being a pro and being around certain types of people makes a difference. With that being said, someone will take a chance on him. People that make it seem like he's not talented, have never watched him. Dude made plays every game he was in the last year he played. Someone WILL get him.

Well said. I agree. It depends on where he goes. I wouldn't want him b4 round 3.
GQSmooth
I just don't see giving a kid at that age a bunch of money and the situation is going to improve. A Chip Kelly coached team may actually be good for Matthieu because he is continually being tested and monitored. However this is someone that just didn't give a damn that he could be caught and his not being on the field impacted the team. If I am a GM Im not investing a draft pick on him. To me he hasn't shown anything to prove he has changed.
nephillymike
QUOTE (GQSmooth @ Apr 19 2013, 07:09 AM) *
I just don't see giving a kid at that age a bunch of money and the situation is going to improve. A Chip Kelly coached team may actually be good for Matthieu because he is continually being tested and monitored. However this is someone that just didn't give a damn that he could be caught and his not being on the field impacted the team. If I am a GM Im not investing a draft pick on him. To me he hasn't shown anything to prove he has changed.



I would take him with one of our 7th round picks, not sooner.

Let him be someone else's problem, not ours.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (GQSmooth @ Apr 19 2013, 07:09 AM) *
However this is someone that just didn't give a damn that he could be caught and his not being on the field impacted the team.

Like I said earlier, it's substance addiction. Because it's weed, everyone has this perception that he's some kind of care free slacker. He had (has?) a mental dependency on smoking weed and getting high.

If he was an alcoholic, people wouldn't say he didn't give a damn. If he was addicted to pain killers, people wouldn't say he didn't give a damn.

He's not a bad dude, just someone that likes smoking weed and clearly has trouble not smoking weed. I'm not saying that he's going to stop or not get in trouble in the pros. I wouldn't spend more than a 4 on him. But it's simply not a matter of not caring.

Almost everyone gets fucked up in their own way. If prohibition was suddenly enacted, I would suspect that none of us would quit getting our drink on.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 19 2013, 12:26 PM) *
Like I said earlier, it's substance addiction. Because it's weed, everyone has this perception that he's some kind of care free slacker. He had (has?) a mental dependency on smoking weed and getting high.

I don't think any of us qualified to comment on whether he has an addiction or not. Less than 10% of pot smokers develop an addiction to it.

You have to take into consideration that some people value smoking weed. They place a higher priority on getting high, than the negative aspects of the recreational drug.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Apr 19 2013, 01:47 PM) *
I don't think any of us qualified to comment on whether he has an addiction or not. Less than 10% of pot smokers develop an addiction to it.

You have to take into consideration that some people value smoking weed. They place a higher priority on getting high, than the negative aspects of the recreational drug.


As I said earlier, I doubt that he has a chemical addiction, but to get caught 10+ times indicates that he has a mental addiction. A dependency on being high. I've been through it. Ultimately I stopped and essentially went cold turkey with no drug related withdrawal side effects. Which is why I don't believe I was ever chemically addicted. But I constantly felt the need to get high or do things while high.
I grew out of it. I suspect he can too.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 19 2013, 05:03 PM) *
As I said earlier, I doubt that he has a chemical addiction, but to get caught 10+ times indicates that he has a mental addiction. A dependency on being high. I've been through it. Ultimately I stopped and essentially went cold turkey with no drug related withdrawal side effects. Which is why I don't believe I was ever chemically addicted. But I constantly felt the need to get high or do things while high.
I grew out of it. I suspect he can too.

In all likelihood he can grow out of it. Most users of marijuana are temporary or situation users (ie. in social settings).

Drug addiction and Drug dependence are different things:
- drug addiction refers to a behavioral syndrome; the overwhelmingly powerful motivation to obtain and self-administer the drug
- drug dependence refers to a state where the individual is dependent upon the drug for normal physiological functioning

The likely scenario is neither of the above but "drug abuse" means that the substance is used in a manner that does not conform to social norms; the motivation to use the substance may or may not be particularly strong compared with other motivators. The causes of drug abuse and drug addiction can be the same, but they are very often much different.
QUOTE
drug addiction involves the biological action of a drug on brain reward and motivation systems, while drug abuse often involves other psycho-social factors with only modest direct effects on brain reward systems.


The fact that he got caught 10 times is likely only an indication that he doesn't care about authority or the punishments that come with his past time. I can recall from my "high times" that diminished capacity to authority figures is a by-product of the stick icky. I have a friend that risks his (very) lucrative job, on a regular basis, by indulging in pot smoking. His attitude is anti-authority and will cite the multitude of reasons why pot should be legal.

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Apr 19 2013, 04:36 PM) *
In all likelihood he can grow out of it. Most users of marijuana are temporary or situation users (ie. in social settings).

Drug addiction and Drug dependence are different things:
- drug addiction refers to a behavioral syndrome; the overwhelmingly powerful motivation to obtain and self-administer the drug
- drug dependence refers to a state where the individual is dependent upon the drug for normal physiological functioning

The likely scenario is neither of the above but "drug abuse" means that the substance is used in a manner that does not conform to social norms; the motivation to use the substance may or may not be particularly strong compared with other motivators. The causes of drug abuse and drug addiction can be the same, but they are very often much different.


The fact that he got caught 10 times is likely only an indication that he doesn't care about authority or the punishments that come with his past time. I can recall from my "high times" that diminished capacity to authority figures is a by-product of the stick icky. I have a friend that risks his (very) lucrative job, on a regular basis, by indulging in pot smoking. His attitude is anti-authority and will cite the multitude of reasons why pot should be legal.


I think that's fair. Either way, his behavior doesn't concern me. It's the prospect of suspension due to said behavior that would limit my willingness to draft him.
nephillymike
Distribution of Reps of 225 lbs by CB's at Scouting Combine:

22x = 2
16x = 2
15x = 1
14x = 5
12x = 1
10x = 2
9x = 1
8x = 1
4x = 1

Wanna guess which one is the pot head loser??
GQSmooth
The kid didn't even want to play in the national championship game, again his addiction is indicative of deeper issues.
Not the type of character you bring in if you are trying to win Super Bowls

Link:PFT Links ESPN Mag
mcnabbulous
Sounds like he has some form of social anxiety disorder. Regardless, none of his traits scare me off. He sounds no different than Ricky Williams, who was more than worthy of a 4th round pick. Just not a top-5 pick.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 19 2013, 07:57 PM) *
Wanna guess which one is the pot head loser??


The stigma with drug addicts is a weird thing. Josh Hamilton is considered a role model after he kicked heroin and became a star again. Only then did people acknowledge how sad and prevalent his issues were.
If he had never recovered, he'd be just another loser.
I just don't think everything is as black and white as people seem to want to make it.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 19 2013, 10:07 PM) *
The stigma with drug addicts is a weird thing. Josh Hamilton is considered a role model after he kicked heroin and became a star again. Only then did people acknowledge how sad and prevalent his issues were.
If he had never recovered, he'd be just another loser.
I just don't think everything is as black and white as people seem to want to make it.



1. I have nothng against anyone smoking the wacky weed, and I do equate that in many ways to alcohol. (Typing this as I sip on a Russian Imperial Stout)

2. NFL players smoke it regularly and the drug test is a joke as far as pot is concerned.

3. I don't think this guy is one of the 10% who happen to be addicted to pot.

4. For a guy wth the rare chance to have a dream career, he didn't give a f**k about it to stop.

5. For a guy with all season to prep, comes in lifting 225 4 times.

#4 and #5, to me, mean this guy is a lazy shit who doesn't care enough about the opportunity in front of him.
Give him $405K per year, and he'll care even less.

No thanks.

As far as #5 goes, this is how bad that is. In my early 20's at 190 lbs with a full time accounting job and as someone who lifted three months a year and three times a week during those three months, I got 225 lbs up 6 times. True. Maybe I'm too demanding, but I would prefer my draft picks to have better results that I had when it was no where near my focus. For him to only get 4 reps, he has no focus. I don't know, but maybe the pot made him weak!!

The more I think of it, maybe a 7th is too much.
Reality Fan
I don't think it is about stigma or anything of the sort. This is a business and it is black and white in a way. He had a chance to perform and he did not measure up. He may have grown up and matured and is now a better person but as a business owner I go the route of taking players who have demonstrated much better judgement. He was afforded a great opportunity and given multiple chances and he repeatedly failed. Teams are not obligated to waste money on players, there are plenty with good character who fail so taking a risk of paying a draft pick with this many red flags is silly. He is a perfect candidate for UDFA. He should earn his chance, personally I think he is way too small and not very fast. He would be a tiny safety and too slow to play corner. He was a terrific college player but the ranks of draft busts are littered with that ilk...great college players who's skill set does not translate to the NFL.
mcnabbulous
Bryce Brown was no less of a waste in college than Matthieu. In fact, more so. That turned out well.

As for the stigma, he was called a pothead loser. I'd say that's a stigma. You likely wouldn't refer to someone as an alcoholic loser. Or pill popping loser.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 20 2013, 09:26 AM) *
Bryce Brown was no less of a waste in college than Matthieu. In fact, more so. That turned out well.

As for the stigma, he was called a pothead loser. I'd say that's a stigma. You likely wouldn't refer to someone as an alcoholic loser. Or pill popping loser.



If I thought he was one of the 10% that are addicted to pot, I would not have been as harsh.

I don't, and therefore I said it.

Forget about him firing up with great frequency.

If the guy had nothing else to do while being out but stay in shape for the draft to look as best as possible in a bad situation, how do you explain 4 reps of the bench press?? Most athletes of his body type with an ounce of desire can smoke a four joints a day and work out in those few hours that they're not high and get their ass into shape good enough to do far better than 4 reps.

I'll be kinder and say the guy is unmotivated, and lacks good judgment.

I'll pass.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 20 2013, 09:45 AM) *
If I thought he was one of the 10% that are addicted to pot, I would not have been as harsh.

I don't, and therefore I said it.

Forget about him firing up with great frequency.

If the guy had nothing else to do while being out but stay in shape for the draft to look as best as possible in a bad situation, how do you explain 4 reps of the bench press?? Most athletes of his body type with an ounce of desire can smoke a four joints a day and work out in those few hours that they're not high and get their ass into shape good enough to do far better than 4 reps.

I'll be kinder and say the guy is unmotivated, and lacks good judgment.

I'll pass.


At that age I had lots of friends who lit up and they all could do 225 4 times while lighting up.....it comes back to him being too small........it is not the bench that is damning for me...it is the 4.50 40 time....at that size he needs to be a lot faster....but he does have bigger hands than Gino.....lololol
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 20 2013, 10:30 AM) *
At that age I had lots of friends who lit up and they all could do 225 4 times while lighting up.....it comes back to him being too small........it is not the bench that is damning for me...it is the 4.50 40 time....at that size he needs to be a lot faster....but he does have bigger hands than Gino.....lololol


I value his instincts more than athleticism.
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