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mcnabbulous
What's everyone think about it? I love his upside, naturally, but have doubts about his accuracy. There is a lot of noise as it relates to a fit with the Eagles.

Would you spend a #2 on him?
iggleslover49
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Mar 29 2013, 10:48 AM) *
What's everyone think about it? I love his upside, naturally, but have doubts about his accuracy. There is a lot of noise as it relates to a fit with the Eagles.

Would you spend a #2 on him?

I'm with you there Z. Great upside but he's not consistent enough with his accuracy. If he's there in the third I guess you would have to take him. But personally I like Matt Scott as a project more.
D Rock
Agreed. I'd prefer Scott in the 3rd or 4th round to EJ in round 2. EJ wont be there in round 3.
mcnabbulous
From my perspective, Scott is a less physically gifted Geno that didn't have nearly the same success. Not to mention that he was awful on mid and long range passes.

And he couldn't earn a starting job until he was a 5th year senior.

For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would want us to waste a pick on him.
Eyrie
I'd rather draft defence in round 2.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Mar 29 2013, 06:44 PM) *
From my perspective, Scott is a less physically gifted Geno that didn't have nearly the same success. Not to mention that he was awful on mid and long range passes.

And he couldn't earn a starting job until he was a 5th year senior.

For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would want us to waste a pick on him.

because its a mid round pick and not #4.

Neither guy is a bonafide quality NFL QB. You don't piss away the #4 pick on "upside and potential." But by all means . . . take a flyer on a 3rd or 4th round pick.

You seem to be evaluating these guys in a bubble. If you can get Geno in round 2, fine. But one thing is certain. Geno Smith is not worthy of a top 5 pick. Whoever takes him is going to wish they hadn't in 2 years. Book it. Especially if they take him in the top 10.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Mar 29 2013, 01:52 PM) *
You seem to be evaluating these guys in a bubble. If you can get Geno in round 2, fine. But one thing is certain. Geno Smith is not worthy of a top 5 pick. Whoever takes him is going to wish they hadn't in 2 years. Book it. Especially if they take him in the top 10.

Your entire basis for this is because Bill Polian said so.

Size: Check (6'2" 218)
Arm Strength: Check (Can make any throw)
Accuracy: Check (he was consistently above average at all ranges despite what some claim to be poor footwork)
Experience: Check (3 year starter)
Athleticism: Check (4.59 forty)
Production: Check (98 TD's/21 INT's)

The guy is not lacking one quality that suggests he doesn't warrant a top pick. The only arguments you have made are arbitrary. He was a system QB (yet he ran the same system as RGIII) and that he can't read defenses (which is nearly impossible to say about almost any college QB.) He excelled in the offense he was placed. If used correctly, there is no reason he can't excel in the pros.

If Donovan McNabb was worthy of the #2 pick, and he was...there is no reason Geno Smith isn't worth a top-5 pick.
samaroo
I've been an FSU fan my whole life, and have seen just about every game EJ has played. I guess I wouldn't mind a mid-round pick on him, but he's been so inconsistent throughout his career. His athleticism and size are great, and when he's on, he's great, but when he's not, he's absolutely terrible. And when things don't go his way early, it's a steep spiral down.

The one thing I'm tired of in my "football life" is inconsistency. I'd rather have Bernie Kosar or Dave Krieg over another inconsistent, up-and-down quarterback. What's Garcia doing these days, anyway? tongue.gif
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Mar 29 2013, 02:15 PM) *
Your entire basis for this is because Bill Polian said so.

Size: Check (6'2" 218)
Arm Strength: Check (Can make any throw)
Accuracy: Check (he was consistently above average at all ranges despite what some claim to be poor footwork)
Experience: Check (3 year starter)
Athleticism: Check (4.59 forty)
Production: Check (98 TD's/21 INT's)

The guy is not lacking one quality that suggests he doesn't warrant a top pick. The only arguments you have made are arbitrary. He was a system QB (yet he ran the same system as RGIII) and that he can't read defenses (which is nearly impossible to say about almost any college QB.) He excelled in the offense he was placed. If used correctly, there is no reason he can't excel in the pros.

If Donovan McNabb was worthy of the #2 pick, and he was...there is no reason Geno Smith isn't worth a top-5 pick.


Here's a problem I have.

In a draft that's not thought to have a lot of top talent, one that is more deep than talented at the top, if he was so good of a prospect, why would he be rated the 18th best prospect? (Based on nine rankings of scouts, sites). To me, in a year where there are no QB's, with only a few prime prospects, it would seem if he is really good, he should be higher than #18. The 18 is not a mock draft prediction, it's a ranking of him as a prospect vs. the rest of the draft. They must have bigger concern than you list.

FWIW, here's the rankings of the QB's in the top 150 compilation: I take the niine rankings and remove the highest and lowest of the nine to remove the outliers. Smith is also 18th if you take all of the rankings leaving the highest and lowest in there.

1. 18th G. Smith
2. 28th M. Barkley
3. 45th T. Wilson
4. 56th M. Glennon
5. 59th R. Nassib
6. 77th EJ Manuel
7. 88th T. Bray
8. 94th L. Jones
9. 111th Z. Dysert
mcnabbulous
I get it. I get that "experts" don't deem him to be a surefire stud. Some don't like him at all. My point doesn't change though. The areas where people doubt him are arbitrary. Based on a checklist of criteria, he passes every single one. He doesn't have a "weakness" on paper.

Whether he turns into a star, capable player, or bust is beyond anyone's knowledge at this point. My point is that everything about him from a physical and college production perspective make him very worthy of a top pick. Everything.

Passing the eyeball test on the field is in the eye of the beholder. But nothing about his skillset deems him unworthy of a top pick.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Mar 29 2013, 08:15 PM) *
Your entire basis for this is because Bill Polian said so.

This is pure and utter Bull Shit and you know it.

I've given you my own thoughts after watching 3 games and all the highlights available on youtube. I've backed my own thoughts up with the dozens and dozens of "experts" that agree with my own assessment. 6 time NFL executive of the year, Bill Polian is only ONE such example. I've shown you how and why the numbers are a mirage and backed it up with a number of highly regarded NFL statistical gurus. I've provided you with any number of opinions from scouts, coaches, pundits and career NFL folk. I've shown you how he feasted on inferior programs and largely shit the bed against the very small handful of legitimate teams he faced (save one).

All you've done is jump up and down, telling me I'm wrong and screaming about his nUmBeRs.

I get it. You got a football chubby for the guy. You've been duped by a single game tape.

Size? Really? Since when is 6'2" great size for a quarterback? It's adequate at best.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Mar 29 2013, 11:30 PM) *
He doesn't have a "weakness" on paper.

You're right. Sadly, his weakness is on the field against the legitimate teams he's faced.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Mar 29 2013, 05:30 PM) *
I get it. I get that "experts" don't deem him to be a surefire stud. Some don't like him at all. My point doesn't change though. The areas where people doubt him are arbitrary. Based on a checklist of criteria, he passes every single one. He doesn't have a "weakness" on paper.

Whether he turns into a star, capable player, or bust is beyond anyone's knowledge at this point. My point is that everything about him from a physical and college production perspective make him very worthy of a top pick. Everything.

Passing the eyeball test on the field is in the eye of the beholder. But nothing about his skillset deems him unworthy of a top pick.



Here is the draft prospect ratings of the combined top QB prospects this year and last from Mayock:

1. '12 A. Luck = 97.0 ('12 highest grade. By comparison, this year's highest grade is for Warmack at 95.9)
2. '12 R. Griffin = 95.0
3. '13 G. Smith = 88.0 (18th ranked player)
4. '12 R. Tannehill =87.0 (19th ranked player in '12. drafted at #8)
5. '12 B. Weeden = 83.7
6. '13 T. Wilson = 83.5
6. '13 Z. Dysert = 83.5
6. '12 B. Osweiller = 83.5
9. '13 M. Barkley = 82.0
10.'13 M. Glennon =79.4
11. '13 R. Nassib = 78.7
12. '12 K. Cousins = 73.0
13. '12 N. Foles = 71.0
14. '13 EJ Manuel = 68.7
15. '12 R. Wilson = 68.5
16. '13 T. Bray = 67.8
17. '13 L. Jones =67.2

and waaay down is '13 Matt Scott at 55.4

Mayock's grading system:

96-100 Future HOF
85-95 - Immediate Starter with the ability to become a Pro Bowl player
70-84 - Eventual starter
50-69 - draftable player that may make the team as a backup

FWIW, ESPN has Smith rated at a 90 which is a premier college player and rare prospect, top five at his position. National Football Post has him rated 7.6 I which is that he projects as a very good starter and he plays to the limit of his physical ability.

I heard Baldi say tonight that he would not pick Smith at #4. He just said that there were too many other better players to pick at 4. He also doesn't think that Smith will get out of the top 8. He said something interesting. Said don't count on Smith being a success as a running threat. He has speed, yes, but does not have the running instincts that the better running QB"s do like RG III, Wilson, S. Young etc. The 4.6 speed will get him past the DL, but without running instincts. he will not likely get much further if he can't make people miss. Smith didn't have to run.

So, back to the pick.

Do we want a guy with Ryan Tannehill skill level, who is the 18th best prospect and a very valuable position of need at the #4 spot?? Ryan Tannehill at #4??? Ryan and his 76.1 passer rating in his rookie year? (Vs. 79.1 for Foles btw). But someone who is starter quality with PB upside?? It would be so much easier at #8 than #4.

Gun to my head, I"m OK if we pick him at #4 but no way do I trade up to get him. He's a half round reach at #4, no way do I give future picks to get him. I would not be disappointed if someone picks him up at 1-3 to make the decision easier.

And to answer the question asked. No I don't want EJ Manuel.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Mar 29 2013, 07:45 PM) *
You're right. Sadly, his weakness is on the field against the legitimate teams he's faced.


Texas and Oklahoma aren't legit? His team averaged over 40 against those two cupcakes.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Mar 29 2013, 12:44 PM) *
From my perspective, Scott is a less physically gifted Geno that didn't have nearly the same success. Not to mention that he was awful on mid and long range passes.

And he couldn't earn a starting job until he was a 5th year senior.

For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would want us to waste a pick on him.



I admit I know nothing of Matt Scott but I had to look at him and from what I read you don't either. The scouts say his problem is his size, not his arm. His arm is his strength as are his legs. The big concern with him is his frame. Height and weight which he has a hard time adding. The issue is whether he could take a beating in the NFL.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 29 2013, 09:44 PM) *
I admit I know nothing of Matt Scott but I had to look at him and from what I read you don't either. The scouts say his problem is his size, not his arm. His arm is his strength as are his legs. The big concern with him is his frame. Height and weight which he has a hard time adding. The issue is whether he could take a beating in the NFL.


That's primarily what I meant by not as physically gifted. But the issue extends beyond whether he could take the beating. His passing numbers are abysmal on mid and deep passes. Unlike Geno who is a very solid passer deep and is expected to improve once his footwork gets better.
JeeQ
I like him, but if we're going with a QB go all the way and draft Geno. Geno or Jordan please wub.gif
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Mar 29 2013, 07:42 PM) *
This is pure and utter Bull Shit and you know it.

I've given you my own thoughts after watching 3 games and all the highlights available on youtube. I've backed my own thoughts up with the dozens and dozens of "experts" that agree with my own assessment. 6 time NFL executive of the year, Bill Polian is only ONE such example. I've shown you how and why the numbers are a mirage and backed it up with a number of highly regarded NFL statistical gurus. I've provided you with any number of opinions from scouts, coaches, pundits and career NFL folk. I've shown you how he feasted on inferior programs and largely shit the bed against the very small handful of legitimate teams he faced (save one).

All you've done is jump up and down, telling me I'm wrong and screaming about his nUmBeRs.

I get it. You got a football chubby for the guy. You've been duped by a single game tape.

Size? Really? Since when is 6'2" great size for a quarterback? It's adequate at best.


Which experts? You cited Bill Polian, Walter Football and Optimum Football. Fucking Mayock finds a way to love and hate every prospect that comes into the league. I'm glad you at least put it in quotes.
Aaron Rodger is 6'2" and he's the QB that most resembles the type of upside I think Smirh possesses. I don't know that Smith will become Rodgers, but there are lots of similar qualities.

Like I said, physically, Smith has everything you could want. As far as I'm concerned, his success or failure will largely depend on the coach he winds up with. If his coaching staff is worth a damn, they will maximize his upside and put him in a position to succeed.

Can you honestly say that Geno is any less a prospect than Donovan? What skills did Donovan possess that Geno lacks? At minimum, Geno is a much more polished passer. Assuming he lands with a coach who is worth a damn, his skills should utilized and he should have a solid career. If his potential is realized, he could be much more than that.

But yeah, I've been "duped by a single game tape." Not the 98 touchdowns in a 3 year career. Or any of that other stuff.
I can simply ask again, what about his game makes him undeserving of a top pick? What have other top-5 QB selections offered that he doesn't possess?
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Mar 30 2013, 02:27 AM) *
Which experts? You cited Bill Polian, Walter Football and Optimum Football. Fucking Mayock finds a way to love and hate every prospect that comes into the league. I'm glad you at least put it in quotes.
Aaron Rodger is 6'2" and he's the QB that most resembles the type of upside I think Smirh possesses. I don't know that Smith will become Rodgers, but there are lots of similar qualities.

Like I said, physically, Smith has everything you could want. As far as I'm concerned, his success or failure will largely depend on the coach he winds up with. If his coaching staff is worth a damn, they will maximize his upside and put him in a position to succeed.

Can you honestly say that Geno is any less a prospect than Donovan? What skills did Donovan possess that Geno lacks? At minimum, Geno is a much more polished passer. Assuming he lands with a coach who is worth a damn, his skills should utilized and he should have a solid career. If his potential is realized, he could be much more than that.

But yeah, I've been "duped by a single game tape." Not the 98 touchdowns in a 3 year career. Or any of that other stuff.
I can simply ask again, what about his game makes him undeserving of a top pick? What have other top-5 QB selections offered that he doesn't possess?



McN,

If the "experts" have him rated properly as a Ryan Tannehill level of talent and if YOU agree with that assessment, would you take him at #4? Forget for a second that you may have him rated higher than a Tannehill, what if you had him rated at that level. Do you pick him at #4?
D Rock
National Football Post has Smith as the #5 QB in this class.

Just Sayin . . .

and the hits keep comin
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Mar 30 2013, 11:27 AM) *
McN,

If the "experts" have him rated properly as a Ryan Tannehill level of talent and if YOU agree with that assessment, would you take him at #4? Forget for a second that you may have him rated higher than a Tannehill, what if you had him rated at that level. Do you pick him at #4?


Without question. I'd much rather have Tannehill on our roster than any of our current QBs.
nephillymike
QUOTE (D Rock @ Mar 30 2013, 12:35 PM) *
National Football Post has Smith as the #5 QB in this class.

Just Sayin . . .

and the hits keep comin


NFP is one of the nine sources I use for my draft compilation. They have a lot of good info on that site. I will say, their rankings are many times against the grain. Exhibit 1A, their #1 prospect at ANY position??

QB. R. Nassib. (He was ranked 59th by the other seven sources combined)

BTW, G. Smith was ranked 18th overall using all nine sources or removing the high and low.

When I rank the players I remove the highest and lowest ratings to get rid of the outliers and NFP has the most outliers. Maybe they're good, better than others, I don't know. but they seem to have a lot of different rankings than the others..
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Mar 30 2013, 12:35 PM) *
National Football Post has Smith as the #5 QB in this class.

Just Sayin . . .

and the hits keep comin


I'm quite curious if you read their profile on him? How anyone can read that without thinking his pros/upside outweigh his cons is beyond me.

All of his weaknesses listed are fixable. All of his strengths are super important awareness, character, and composure related. In addition to his top notch physical attributes.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Mar 30 2013, 01:24 PM) *
Without question. I'd much rather have Tannehill on our roster than any of our current QBs.


If that's the case, then it is a no brainer for you.

For me, I think Foles will be comparable to Tannehill. Actually, with a worse team, he performed better. All things equal, I would keep Foles in that comparision but maybe Chip's system doesn't make all things equal and maybe Tannehill is a better fit for that, I don't know.

If you would do that for Tannehill, then I think you can rest easy if we get him at four.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Mar 30 2013, 02:43 PM) *
I'm quite curious if you read their profile on him? How anyone can read that without thinking his pros/upside outweigh his cons is beyond me.

All of his weaknesses listed are fixable. All of his strengths are super important awareness, character, and composure related. In addition to his top notch physical attributes.

I have to agree with you. From the article:

QUOTE
...Smith is exceptionally smart with great intangibles/character and work ethic.
...he has consistently shown the quickness to get rid of the ball fast on quick hitting passes
...he impressed me with his athleticism, strong arm and most impressive his ability to avoid mistakes
...I have no doubt that in terms of physical skills, arm strength and athleticism, Smith is elite
...I believe he will be a solid starting quarterback who rarely makes mistakes

He will need to improve his footwork, both dropping back to pass and in terms of his mechanics, and accuracy to become the elite quarterback many expect him to be.

The knock against him seems to be a question of his mechanics, which is correctable. Everybody seems to think he is a talented young man with all the physical tools to become a franchise quarterback. The reluctance to draft him high in the first is incomprehensible.
mcnabbulous
No doubt, Phits.

That's the comment that makes my head spin. He's "undeserving" of a top pick? Not based on any of the possible information available. If developed properly, there is no reason he shouldn't be a top-10 QB in football. It could very easily be much higher than that.
D Rock
I suppose that's why all the QB needy teams have gone on to sign and/or trade for the likes of Kolb, Flynn, Palmer and Jason Campbell. They must REALLY be loving that Geno Smith Upside....

tongue.gif

And for the record, his "issues" are not limited to mechanics. They're largely centered around the fact that he falls apart under pressure, can't read a defense, has a penchant for "pouting on the sideline" when things don't go his way. This guy looks more and more like the "poor man's donovan mcnabb" that many have characterized him to be with each passing day.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 1 2013, 03:07 PM) *
I suppose that's why all the QB needy teams have gone on to sign and/or trade for the likes of Kolb, Flynn, Palmer and Jason Campbell. They must REALLY be loving that Geno Smith Upside....

tongue.gif

And for the record, his "issues" are not limited to mechanics. They're largely centered around the fact that he falls apart under pressure, can't read a defense, has a penchant for "pouting on the sideline" when things don't go his way. This guy looks more and more like the "poor man's donovan mcnabb" that many have characterized him to be with each passing day.

What skill did Donovan possess that makes you think he's a poor man's version?
mcnabbulous
And FWIW, there is also speculation that teams have acquired QB's because they think the Jags are going to select Geno at #2. It can go both ways.
D Rock
You have to look no further than Blaine Gabbert to see the potential pitfalls in falling in love with a QB's upside and reaching for him because of the position's import...

Jax deserves what they get if they're daft enough to do it twice in 3 years.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 1 2013, 04:12 PM) *
You have to look no further than Blaine Gabbert to see the potential pitfalls in falling in love with a QB's upside and reaching for him because of the position's import...

Jax deserves what they get if they're daft enough to do it twice in 3 years.

Smith's college career couldn't resemble Gabbert's any less.

One guy got better every year he stepped on the field. The other is Blaine Gabbert.

*Jesus, typing his name only highlights how ridiculous it is.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 1 2013, 10:07 PM) *
Smith's college career couldn't resemble Gabbert's any less.

One guy got better every year he stepped on the field. The other is Blaine Gabbert.

*Jesus, typing his name only highlights how ridiculous it is.

Nonetheless, you're still talking about reaching for a QB that barely has a first round grade if at all. Gabbert was a consensus 2nd/3rd round pick. Jax took him at #10. This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say "falling in love with a QBs upside and reaching because of the position's import."

I don't disagree with you about the importance of having a great quarterback. I do however disagree that the position's import justifies reaching on any particular prospect, especially with a top 5 pick. That might be less offensive in nature if you're talking about mid/late round. And obviously, I disagree with your opinion of Geno as a player.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 1 2013, 06:47 PM) *
Nonetheless, you're still talking about reaching for a QB that barely has a first round grade if at all. Gabbert was a consensus 2nd/3rd round pick. Jax took him at #10. This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say "falling in love with a QBs upside and reaching because of the position's import."

I don't disagree with you about the importance of having a great quarterback. I do however disagree that the position's import justifies reaching on any particular prospect, especially with a top 5 pick. That might be less offensive in nature if you're talking about mid/late round. And obviously, I disagree with your opinion of Geno as a player.

Well, we have about 3.5 weeks to find out what type of grade he really has, but I think that grade is much more valuable coming from guys that work for NFL teams than bloggers who are self-defined "draft experts."
Of course, you think he'll be a reach based on their consensus, so it makes the conversation somewhat moot. Taking the best QB available who has had as much success as Smith is hardly a reach. Rarely does that guy last to pick 4.

D Rock
I've told you repeatedly that I didn't like Smith after watching 3 games of his this past season. The "self defined 'draft experts'" to whom you attribute my opinion only serve to cement what thine own eyes have seen.

For your enjoyment, here's another that concurs with the obvious.

For the record, Nawrocki is the only guy that got it right on Cam Newton 2 years ago, and most (if not all) of his predictions on Cam proved to be spot on.

Now before you go dismissing . . . (ball busting here) I realize you think you're brilliance exceeds that of most career NFL men (espcially 6 time NFL executive of the year types), so you can spare me the predictable character assassination. I stipulate to your opinion of this professional being underqualified compared with yourself.

Nawrocki's assessment of Smith: “Not a student of the game. Nonchalant field presence — does not command respect from teammates and cannot inspire. Mild practice demeanor — no urgency. Not committed or focused — marginal work ethic. Interviewed poorly at the Combine and did not show an understanding of concepts on the white board. Opted not to compete at the Senior Bowl and has approached offseason training as if he has already arrived and it shows in his body with minimal muscle definition or strength. Has small hands and glaring ball security issues (32 career fumbles). Really struggled handling the snow in Pinstripe Bowl (took two safeties) and will be troubled by the elements. Needed to be coddled in college — cannot handle hard coaching.”

Nawrocki then makes a strong prediction about Smith’s future. “Smith is a gimmick, overhyped product of the system lacking the football savvy, work habits and focus to cement a starting job and could drain energy from a QB room,” Nawrocki writes. “Will be overdrafted and struggle to produce against NFL defensive complexities.”
Phits
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 1 2013, 09:14 PM) *
For the record, Nawrocki is the only guy that got it right on Cam Newton 2 years ago, and most (if not all) of his predictions on Cam proved to be spot on.

That couldn't be further from the truth. Nolan didn't spend any time with Cam; yet he was able to determine that Newton was a fraud/con-artist. It was clearly a cheap shot in an apparent smear campaign....much like Florio did to Aaron Rodgers years before.
D Rock
I can't speak for his motives, but you can't deny his accuracy. Cam seemed to turn the character stuff around a bit last year, but only after nearly alienating the locker room, franchise and city. He's a talented athlete, but a spoiled brat and a phony. He's closer to locker room headache than a leader.

After only two years, you still gotta view him for his unlimited potential. But his growth needs to come between the ears, not the sidelines. That's pretty much what nawrocki is saying in his scouting report.

And as good as he's looked at times, he's not doing a great deal o winning thus far, nearly getting his coach fired.
mcnabbulous
Nolan Nawrocki's name comes up once a year when he is criticizing a black QB. Last year it was RGIII's 'football IQ.'

If you want to distance yourself from VM, I'd do the same with Nawrocki. The guy is truly a hack.
GQSmooth
He also had some strong criticisms of RG3, so Cam, RG3 and Geno received strong criticism which has been proven wrong in a lot of ways by their play. Better find a better more objective analyst than Narwocki to make your point.
JeeQ
Just had to say Nawrocki? Really? laugh.gif

He insulted Cam Newton (Record-Setting ROTY Season), he insulted RG3 (Took Redskins from the bottom of the NFC East cellar to Division winners), he insulted Russell Wilson (Record-Setting ROTY Season) and now he's insulting Geno...

But he loves Matt Barkley!

Do you happen to see a pattern here? No? Do I have to paint it black for you? wink.gif
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 2 2013, 01:27 PM) *
Nolan Nawrocki's name comes up once a year when he is criticizing a black QB. Last year it was RGIII's 'football IQ.'

If you want to distance yourself from VM, I'd do the same with Nawrocki. The guy is truly a hack.

I was referring to your inevitable assassination of his character, not mine.

I'll add "moral superiority" to the list of things with which we mere mortals can not compete with your vaunted self image.

You can insult me all you like. It still wont make Geno Smith an NFL quarterback.

laugh.gif

You can even keep the case of beer when Geno's career flops as completely as your attempts to construct an argument for Smith.

"but lookit the numbas. It's all about the numbas. wont somebody PLEASE lookit the numbas."

I wouldn't drink something sent from you were it the god's ambrosia itself.

mcnabbulous
My moral superiority? You're just about the only one here who can't see what a joke Nawrocki is. But yeah, he called out Cam Newton's "fake smile." He's the next Ron Wolf.

Like I said, if you want to associate your opinion of Geno with Nawrocki, be my guest. But it doesn't suit what I've come to know about your opinions around here.

And FWIW, McShay just tweeted this out...

QUOTE
Re: Geno Smith - Ive spoken to at least 10 diff scouts with varying opinions on Geno as a football player. But not 1 questioned work ethic
D Rock
Yeah, I get it.

McShay agrees with you. He's clearly a genius. The rest of us? We're clearly just hatin on a black dood.



mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 2 2013, 11:41 AM) *
Yeah, I get it.

McShay agrees with you. He's clearly a genius. The rest of us? We're clearly just hatin on a black dood.

What did I post that suggest McShay agrees with me? My point is that no one agrees with Nawrocki. Except you of course.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 2 2013, 04:55 PM) *
What did I post that suggest McShay agrees with me? My point is that no one agrees with Nawrocki. Except you of course.

Correction. He agrees w/ me.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 2 2013, 12:49 PM) *
Correction. He agrees w/ me.

Right. My reference to McShay was to point out that no one agrees with Nawrocki. His criticisms of Smith aren't valid and given his reputation, borderline racist.

Which is why I'm not sure why you're citing him as a valid source. Or trying to compare Geno to Cam.

Smith's own college coach described him as a "film junkie" and more dedicated student of the game than Brandon Weeden, whom he had previously coached.
D Rock
Tiger Please.

From what I've read, his criticism seems to be right in line with the overall consensus on Geno's personality.

I've not cited him as a valid anything. I just posted yet another opinion that thinks the guy is over rated by a pretty huge margin. The guy lost 6 of his last 8 games and did so in pretty horrific fashion. His fall in the last half of the season is more precipitous than Barkely's fall from last season to this. This guy wouldn't be a round 1 guy in any draft of the last decade. That you can't see that is not my fault.

You can continue to kill the messenger all you like. But it strikes me as more than a bit convenient for you to label all opinions of Geno that see past "the numbas" as "racist."

I'm done with it. I've made my thoughts clear. And did so without resorting to rhetorically specious name calling and insults. We'll pick it up in 2-3 seasons when Geno is either out of NFL or relegated to the career backup that his skill set suggests is his ceiling.

Good Day.
nephillymike
This guy's critique seems way off base.

Unless everyone else was sold a bill of goods on Smith's work ethic, I think this guy's opinion is off base.

There are plenty who think Smith is not top first round talent. Even a few more say he's second round talent (same guy had R. Nassib #1 prospect at ANY position). This guy seems to be the only one questioning his work eithic. His arms looked well defined to me at the Pro Day. Did they look that way to you?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 2 2013, 02:00 PM) *
Tiger Please.

From what I've read, his criticism seems to be right in line with the overall consensus on Geno's personality.

Other than absolutely everyone saying that Geno's work ethic is not up for debate. Just that little detail.

QUOTE
I've not cited him as a valid anything. I just posted yet another opinion that thinks the guy is over rated by a pretty huge margin. The guy lost 6 of his last 8 games and did so in pretty horrific fashion. His fall in the last half of the season is more precipitous than Barkely's fall from last season to this. This guy wouldn't be a round 1 guy in any draft of the last decade. That you can't see that is not my fault.

In those losses, his team gave up 49, 55, 39 (OT loss) 55, 50 (lost by 1) and 38. Horrific fashion?

What is horrific is that his defense was one of the worst in the history of football. He played 2 poor games and anyone that has ever played sports knows you occassionally press when things start getting out of hand.

QUOTE
You can continue to kill the messenger all you like. But it strikes me as more than a bit convenient for you to label all opinions of Geno that see past "the numbas" as "racist."

I don't need to label Nawrocki anything. He's done that all on his own. I didn't even say you shared an opinion with him, simply that it's worthwhile distancing yourself from his opinion if you don't want to be labeled in that fashion. If you want to get your panties in a wad over how you're being perceived after that affiliation, then so be it.

QUOTE
I'm done with it. I've made my thoughts clear. And did so without resorting to rhetorically specious name calling and insults. We'll pick it up in 2-3 seasons when Geno is either out of NFL or relegated to the career backup that his skill set suggests is his ceiling.

Good Day.

Like I said, I haven't called you anything. But when you cite a guy who is getting hammered nationally as a racist, then you open that can of worms. I'm not even close to the only person who has mentioned it. Simply the only one you're responding to.
GQSmooth
Here is a stat from Number Never Lie which debunks Geno being poor under pressure: @ESPN_Numbers: Geno Smith completed 70.8% of his passes vs. the blitz last season. That’s better than RGIII’s 70.2% in his final college season.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (GQSmooth @ Apr 2 2013, 02:17 PM) *
Here is a stat from Number Never Lie which debunks Geno being poor under pressure: @ESPN_Numbers: Geno Smith completed 70.8% of his passes vs. the blitz last season. That’s better than RGIII’s 70.2% in his final college season.

Saw that too. I would have to imagine it's difficult to succeed against the blitz if you don't know how to read a defense. But that's just me.
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