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mcnabbulous
Can anyone remember a top-5 OL that went on to win a SB since Orlando Pace? I can't think of any off-hand.

I don't think there is value at drafting OL that high. The last group of really high, well regarded OL I can remember play for teams like Miami and Cleveland.
I hope we go Geno Smith or defensive playmaker. From my perspective, even if they don't pan out, they'll have as great of an impact on wins and losses as an OL.
Zero
You want to use the fourth pick on Geno Smith? I'm a DND, but from what I've read that's way too high, especially considering next year is supposed to offer a cornucopia of QBs that should fit Kelly's perceived offense.

I'm bouncing around on what I'd like them to do, but I keep coming back to concentrating on improving a dysfunctional defense ... early and often.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 23 2013, 03:07 PM) *
Can anyone remember a top-5 OL that went on to win a SB since Orlando Pace? I can't think of any off-hand.

I don't think there is value at drafting OL that high. The last group of really high, well regarded OL I can remember play for teams like Miami and Cleveland.
I hope we go Geno Smith or defensive playmaker. From my perspective, even if they don't pan out, they'll have as great of an impact on wins and losses as an OL.



Drafting an OT worthy of that high pick is a gold mine. Here is a list of all OL drafted in the top 6 of the draft since 1990 and how they fared. (You can do a similar analysis with QB's drafted 1-6 and see how that hit/miss rate compares). Note that all listed are OT's ad no OG or C went in top 6 since '90. (PB, AP Pro Bowl, ALL-Pro)

Name................Yr......Pick.........PB............AP.......Status
Boselli............1995.......2............5.............3.........Great
Ogden............1996.......4...........11............4..........HOF
Pace...............1997.......1...........7..............3.........Great
W. Jones.........1997.......6...........9..............4..........Great
C. Samuels......2000.......3...........6..............0..........Great, No AP b/c of Jones and Pace
L. Davis...........2001.......2...........3..............0.........Multiple PB
M. Williams......2002.......4............0.............0..........No PB, solid starter
R. Gallery........2004.......2............0.............0..........Solid Starter,drafted at black hole of Oak where all go to fail
D. Ferguson.....2006.......4............3.............0..........Multiple PB
J. Thomas........2007.......3...........6..............3..........Great
J. Long............2008.......1...........4...............1.........Multiple PB and more to come
J. Smith...........2009.......2...........0..............0..........Traded by STL to NYJ after injury. Starts. Future Uncertain
A. Smith...........2009......6...........0...............0.........Solid Starter for CIN
T. Williams........2010.......4..........1...............0.........PB already, more to come
R. Okung..........2010........6..........1...............0.........PB already, more to come
M. Kalil.............2012.......4...........0...............0.........Solid Starter for MIN on way to fine career.

That is, by far, the best hit rate you will find in the crapshoot that is the NFL draft.

Moral of the story?

If you have the chance to draft a worthy OT in the top six picks, draft him. A rare no brainer.

Hopefully Joeckel is there, we pick him and then move on to other defensive issues in the other rounds.

Peters, Mathis, Kelce, Herremans, Joeckel may be the best OL in football.
mcnabbulous
Mikey,

You mention how good they are, but do they help you win games? The evidence doesn't back up the "success."

Pace is the most recent guy on that list with a ring.

And regarding Smith, yes, I would draft him at four. With the exception of Teddy Brightwater, I like him more than any of next years QB prospects. Taj Boyd, maybe. Hardly a cornucopia though.

I think he's undervalued. This talk of him not being a first round prospect is ridiculous.
nephillymike
Smith is not a talent worthy of a top 15 pick. Not that he won't be a top 10 pick but it's the QB reach.

If you had a no brainer top 5 QB, than maybe you go that route, but Smith is not that.

A rock solid OT helps win games. You can only judge a player on how HE does.
mcnabbulous
I don't know how anyone can say that about Smith with nothing to back it up. A no brainer at number 5 gets taken number one when it's a QB.

A rock solid OT is a nice luxury, but Miami, Cleveland, Was (before RGIII), are proof that they don't help you win many games. Miami and Cleveland have arguably the best two LT in football. Miami and Cleveland.

Drafting them high has proven to have little to no impact on improving the quality of a team in the modern NFL. It's an outdated mindset, and I hope Kelly sees that as obviously as I do.

Von Miller has had a greater impact on improving the fortunes of a team than any of the mentioned tackles.
Eyrie
If Smith is still there at #4 and Joekel is gone, I want us working the phones to get the best offer we can from someone who is in love with him. There are too many question marks about Smith to make him worthy of that high a pick, and we have other needs to fill.

Joekel or Lotulelie would suit me fine, then look for our franchise QB in 2014.
mcnabbulous
Here is a great video about Smith, done by a KC fan. This guy gets it. If someone can genuinely explain what this guy is missing, Id love to hear it. He's not the greatest prospect ever, but I fail to see how he isn't worthy of the #4 pick. If you are waiting for the next Andrew Luck to come along, you'll be waiting for a while.

mcnabbulous
Geno ran a 4.56 today. A bit faster than many expected.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 24 2013, 01:02 AM) *
Mikey,

You mention how good they are, but do they help you win games? The evidence doesn't back up the "success."

Pace is the most recent guy on that list with a ring.

And regarding Smith, yes, I would draft him at four. With the exception of Teddy Brightwater, I like him more than any of next years QB prospects. Taj Boyd, maybe. Hardly a cornucopia though.

I think he's undervalued. This talk of him not being a first round prospect is ridiculous.

No single draftee is going to take a TEAM to a superbowl. It just doesn't happen. It's the "ulimate team game."

I watched Bill Polian last night on NFL Net talking about how "good" Geno Smith is. After going on and on for about 5 minuts on how "good" this guy is . . . he defined his "ceiling" as "career backup."

Top 5 picks gotta get you All Pros. Not solid backups.

Honestly, for the life of me . . . I can't see what you're seeing in this guy. His stats are nothing. His film is mediocre.

His standard line is 24 of 38 for 148 yards 1 TD and a pair of INTs.

No Thanks.

As Polian pointed out . . . Most of his yards were via short passes with tons of RAC yards from the skill guys. He (according to Bill) struggles to read defenses. Played in a system that will require significant adjustment to the pro game. This guy would be a reach in round 2 and you wanna take him 4th overall?

hunch.gif
mcnabbulous
What the hell does "his stats are nothing" mean?

He threw 42 TD's to only 6 INT's and completed over 71% of his throws. For a guy that struggles to read defenses, he sure doesn't make a lot of mistakes.

Based on that statement, I'm not sure you even know who Geno Smith is.

If Smith has a weakness, it's footwork, which is more than correctable.

And fwiw, Polian is a shit GM.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 24 2013, 10:46 PM) *
And fwiw, Polian is a shit GM.

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Polian sucks? But you apparently think BJ Kissel is a genius? I know how you roll. Agree with you and it's genius. Disagree and it's "he sucks."

Bill took Manning over Leaf. Took James over Williams. Drafted Harrison, Wayne, Dallas Clark, Dwight Freeney. This guy knows more about football than this boards membership combined.

Tell you what. If Geno Phuquing Smith is a starter in this league for more than 2 years . . . I'll send you a case of your choice in beer. I'm not even saying a good starter. Just a starter.

Have you even seen him play? He completed 71% (actually it's 67% - but whatever) of his passes because his scheme was all quick / short throws. Most of the yards, and TDs were more the result of stellar play from his skill position team mates going for big yards after the catch.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Feb 24 2013, 04:51 PM) *
laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Took Manning over Leaf. Took James over Williams. This guy knows more about football than this boards membership combined.

Tell you what. If Geno Phuquing Smith is a starter in this league for more than 2 years . . . I'll send you a case of your choice in beer. I'm not even saying a good starter. Just a starter.


Manning over Leaf is the most overrated draft decision in NFL history. That was an obvious move. And he neglected his defense for nearly a decade while having one of the greatest QB's of all-time. We saw what became of his evaluation genius in 2011 without Manning.

And I'm still waiting for you to explain how his "stats are nothing."

Just a heads up, I like good beer. But consider it a two way bet.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 24 2013, 10:58 PM) *
Manning over Leaf is the most overrated draft decision in NFL history. That was an obvious move. And he neglected his defense for nearly a decade while having one of the greatest QB's of all-time. We saw what became of his evaluation genius in 2011 without Manning.

And I'm still waiting for you to explain how his "stats are nothing."

Just a heads up, I like good beer. But consider it a two way bet.

Have you even seen him play? He completed 71% (actually it's 67% - but whatever) of his passes because his scheme was all quick / short throws. Most of the yards, and TDs were more the result of stellar play from his skill position team mates going for big yards after the catch.

Sorry, but a bubble screen going for a 70 yard TD is not attributable to the quarterback in my world.

Polian also took Dallas Clark, Wayne, Harrison, Freeney, Saturday.

Again, you think Bill Polian Sucks . . . but want us to heed to words of the vAuNtEd BJ Kissel?!?!?!

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Feb 24 2013, 05:00 PM) *
Have you even seen him play? He completed 71% (actually it's 67% - but whatever) of his passes because his scheme was all quick / short throws. Most of the yards, and TDs were more the result of stellar play from his skill position team mates going for big yards after the catch.

Polian also took Dallas Clark, Wayne, Harrison, Freeney, Saturday.


He was the GM there for well over a decade. I would hope he could grab a few stars.

And yes, I've watched Geno play. The type of offense he excelled with this year, which is the third offense he ran at WVU (and thrived in all) is not much different than what I expect to see from our Eagles.

After a decade of watching Donovan unable to consistently get the ball to people in stride, you're the last person I would suspect that wouldn't see the value in a guy that can get the ball to his teammates and allow them to make plays.

Success in the NFL is all about YAC. We seem to have some weapons who would be able to fit nicely with that.

And no, it was 71.2% actually. I think you're looking at his last game stats.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Feb 24 2013, 05:00 PM) *
Again, you think Bill Polian Sucks . . . but want us to heed to words of the vAuNtEd BJ Kissel?!?!?!

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

That's why I provided a video, which I thought sufficiently reflected the various skills that Geno has and are valuable for a QB. I actually couldn't have agreed more with his analysis.
And yes, Polian sucks. I've thought so for years. Like I said, look what happened when he didn't have Manning.

D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 24 2013, 11:05 PM) *
He was the GM there for well over a decade. I would hope he could grab a few stars.

And yes, I've watched Geno play. The type of offense he excelled with this year, which is the third offense he ran at WVU (and thrived in all) is not much different than what I expect to see from our Eagles.

After a decade of watching Donovan unable to consistently get the ball to people in stride, you're the last person I would suspect that wouldn't see the value in a guy that can get the ball to his teammates and allow them to make plays.

Success in the NFL is all about YAC. We seem to have some weapons who would be able to fit nicely with that.

And no, it was 71.2% actually. I think you're looking at his last game stats.

No. I'm looking at his career. You're cherry picking.

Donovan's suckitood has no correlation to Smith's ability (or lackthereof).

We've said all there is to say on the matter. Let's let it play out on the field with a case of Golden Road's "Point the Way IPA" coming my way in a few seasons.

Don't worry. I'm a swell guy and chose a local brewery to save you the shipping costs.

cheers.gif
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 24 2013, 11:13 PM) *
And yes, Polian sucks.

Compared to BJ Kissel?

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

mcnabbulous
I love me some hops. So that works fine by me.

I'd hardly say using his most recent full season is cherry picking, but regardless. He's had plenty of statistical success over the past 3 years.

And Polian's suckitude has no correlation to BJ Kissel. smile.gif

And I would advise allowing me to offer some Austin Beerworks Fire Eagle IPA if we are sending local favorites.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 24 2013, 10:25 PM) *
And Polian's suckitude has no correlation to BJ Kissel. smile.gif

laugh.gif - I see what you did there.

Seriously though, I'll take a career NFL guy's opinion over some dip shit fan post anyday.

QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 24 2013, 10:25 PM) *
And I would advise allowing me to offer some Austin Beerworks Fire Eagle IPA if we are sending local favorites.

Done.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 23 2013, 03:07 PM) *
Can anyone remember a top-5 OL that went on to win a SB since Orlando Pace? I can't think of any off-hand.


It's not fair to judge picks by amount of Super Bowls won, much less freakin o-line picks. If you're getting a 10+ year reliable player on your line, a top 5 pick might be worth it, though I'm on the record as saying I'd rather go defense, knowing it probably won't happen.

Anyways, why are we talking about Geno Smith? Andy Reid has the first pick - most good head coaches never get a chance to draft the top pick (hence why they're good). Does anyone here really think he's not taking Geno Smith as #1?


mcnabbulous
I simply don't think there is enough of a difference between a great OL and a good OL to warrant a pick that high. I guess that's my general point.

If you draft a great pass rusher, that has a bigger impact than a good pass rusher. Same with QB...etc.

nephillymike
QUOTE (D Rock @ Feb 24 2013, 04:51 PM) *
laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Polian sucks? But you apparently think BJ Kissel is a genius? I know how you roll. Agree with you and it's genius. Disagree and it's "he sucks."

Bill took Manning over Leaf. Took James over Williams. Drafted Harrison, Wayne, Dallas Clark, Dwight Freeney. This guy knows more about football than this boards membership combined.

Tell you what. If Geno Phuquing Smith is a starter in this league for more than 2 years . . . I'll send you a case of your choice in beer. I'm not even saying a good starter. Just a starter.

Have you even seen him play? He completed 71% (actually it's 67% - but whatever) of his passes because his scheme was all quick / short throws. Most of the yards, and TDs were more the result of stellar play from his skill position team mates going for big yards after the catch.



Hey D, I think that's a losing bet. (And no I'm not taking the other side, but you did succeed in making me thirsty for a beer!) Smith will go top 10, and as such will be given two years as a starter to justify the pick, so the two years is a given. I think even the worse busts have gotten 2+ yrs as starters. Not that I think Smith will be a bust. Just not worthy of a top 15 pick IMO.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 24 2013, 10:57 AM) *
Here is a great video about Smith, done by a KC fan. This guy gets it. If someone can genuinely explain what this guy is missing, Id love to hear it. He's not the greatest prospect ever, but I fail to see how he isn't worthy of the #4 pick. If you are waiting for the next Andrew Luck to come along, you'll be waiting for a while.




http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/blog/ro...-passing-drills
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Feb 24 2013, 09:44 PM) *


RG3 didn't even throw at the combine. A lot of guys don't because they have no chemistry with the receivers and there isn't much upside. I think his production and physical skills speak to his abilities.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Feb 24 2013, 04:51 PM) *
Tell you what. If Geno Phuquing Smith is a starter in this league for more than 2 years . . . I'll send you a case of your choice in beer. I'm not even saying a good starter. Just a starter.


Chan Gailey: No competition, Geno Smith is Jets starter
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 20 2015, 08:04 PM) *

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ May 20 2015, 02:12 PM) *
laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

cheers.gif:
nephillymike
Bwah!

So, does D owe Nabby beer after last year? Was that his second year as a starter? Or are we talking two years as in 32 games as the #1 guy?


I think I came off pretty well in this thread if I must say so!!

That search button is a bitch!!
mcnabbulous
He said more than 2 years so I'm counting this year as the prize smile.gif
samaroo
I'll have to remember to refrain from making any more predictions on this board! Good stuff!
nephillymike
QUOTE (samaroo @ May 20 2015, 08:52 PM) *
I'll have to remember to refrain from making any more predictions on this board! Good stuff!



Some idiot around here predicted an Eagles Sb win in 2012, the 4-12 2012 year. The only year this idiot ever predicted a SB win!

samaroo
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 21 2015, 10:56 AM) *
Some idiot around here predicted an Eagles Sb win in 2012, the 4-12 2012 year. The only year this idiot ever predicted a SB win!

Wonder who that could've been... cool.gif
nephillymike
QUOTE (samaroo @ May 20 2015, 09:13 PM) *
Wonder who that could've been... cool.gif


I think I may have misremembered.

I did not have sexual relations with that woman!

They call me the deflator because I am fat.

I am not a crook.

This healthcare bill is budget neutral.

I did not bet on baseball.

I did not inhale.

At no time did I ever take steroids.

samaroo
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 21 2015, 11:28 AM) *
I think I may have misremembered.

I did not have sexual relations with that woman!

They call me the deflator because I am fat.

I am not a crook.

This healthcare bill is budget neutral.

I did not bet on baseball.

I did not inhale.

At no time did I ever take steroids.

Man, that is the HOF for denials lists, right there! But don't forget:

Read my lips: No. New. Taxes!
nephillymike
QUOTE (samaroo @ May 20 2015, 10:59 PM) *
Man, that is the HOF for denials lists, right there! But don't forget:

Read my lips: No. New. Taxes!



That's the one I couldn't remember!

I knew I was missing one.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 20 2015, 07:34 PM) *
I think I came off pretty well in this thread if I must say so!!

I still stand by everything I said in this thread. Drafting OL in the top-5 is stupid.

I also still think Geno would thrive if used in an offense like ours. He's better than Tannehill in my opinion, who is doing well with our former QB coach running his offense.
make_it_rain
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 21 2015, 11:48 AM) *
I still stand by everything I said in this thread. Drafting OL in the top-5 is stupid.

I also still think Geno would thrive if used in an offense like ours. He's better than Tannehill in my opinion, who is doing well with our former QB coach running his offense.


Its tough to evaluate any QB objectively from the wasteland that is the Jets offense, but I'm a big believer in Tannehill. He was very solid last year and is still getting better. I'd be THRILLED if the Eagles got him in a deal similar to Miami got, I think he could excel in this offense.

I know many here are high on Bradford but I'd Tanny over him in a beat. Thoughts?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ May 21 2015, 11:48 AM) *
I know many here are high on Bradford but I'd Tanny over him in a beat. Thoughts?

Hell no. Bradford is going to be elite in our offense. I think Tanny is good, but I'm not very high on his ceiling.
JeeQ
QUOTE (nephillymike @ May 20 2015, 07:28 PM) *
I think I may have misremembered.

I did not have sexual relations with that woman!

They call me the deflator because I am fat.

I am not a crook.

This healthcare bill is budget neutral.

I did not bet on baseball.

I did not inhale.

At no time did I ever take steroids.


Bravo Mikey... Bravo
samaroo
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ May 22 2015, 01:57 AM) *
Hell no. Bradford is going to be elite in our offense. I think Tanny is good, but I'm not very high on his ceiling.

Yeah, I think most teams would be happy to have a Tanny as their QB, but I'd rather have Bradford (do I have to put "assuming he stays healthy?") I've been surprised with Tanny's pocket presence, especially in that O. But I haven't seen the arm strength from him Bradford has. I haven't seen a bunch of Fins games, so maybe it's there.

Also, there's no way to get him now.

Quasi-relatedly, if Ol' Knees has the year we all hope he does, what the hell is his contract gonna be? Tanny just got a $77M raise, and Luck and Wilson haven't inked theirs yet. It's gonna be expensive...
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