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Zero
Spread it out and have a mobile QB who can execute the run option ... right? That's what he was good at in Oregon so it's what he brings to the NFL ... right?

But that's not what he's said. What if ... what if the Chipster decides to tailor his offense to the skills Foles posseses?
QUOTE
A few weeks ago, Reuben Frank of CSNPhilly.com crunched some numbers on Foles' rookie season. Roob found that Foles' 60.8 percent completion percentage is fifth in NFL history among rookie QBs, behind some pretty notable figures -- Ben Roethlisberger, Robert Griffin III, Russell Wilson and Matt Ryan. Foles' average of 243 yards passing a game ranks third all-time, behind Andrew Luck and Cam Newton, neither of whom completed 60 percent of their passes as a rookie. Thus, Foles is the only NFL rookie, ever, to average more than 240 yards while completing at least 60 percent of his passes. (You could argue that Marc Bulger did this with the Rams in 2002, but he was not technically a rookie, having been on the roster behind Kurt Warner for two years, not playing.) Foles threw an interception once every 53 attempts. In NFL history, only one rookie QB has had a better ratio, RGIII last season, one every 78.6 atempts.
The point isn't that Foles will be a great QB but only that he has tools a smart coach may be able to nurture and build on. There are reports today that Reid wants to trade for Foles. I have no idea what he would offer, but depending on what Kelly and Shurmer think of Foles I don't think it should be less than KC's third.

It all boils down to the "brilliance" and coaching ability of Kelly and Shurmer. Can they take a reasonably talented, intelligent pocket passer and build a SB offense around him? Do they look at the run option offense as a durable scheme in the NFL or do they look at what happened to RGIII and decide it will run its course in a couple of years then die due to the QB mortality rate.

As I keep saying, I'm excited about watching this all evolve.

Bocadelphia Eagles John
I was impressed watching Foles. But I had no idea his stats relative to other rooks were that impressive, ranking him among the best of the bunch. That is something worth being interested about to see how he can be developed and into what scheme would best take advantage of whatever his talents might be.

Glad to see such news about one of our own.

Phits
QUOTE (Zero @ Feb 15 2013, 06:25 AM) *
Spread it out and have a mobile QB who can execute the run option ... right? That's what he was good at in Oregon so it's what he brings to the NFL ... right?

But that's not what he's said. What if ... what if the Chipster decides to tailor his offense to the skills Foles posseses? The point isn't that Foles will be a great QB but only that he has tools a smart coach may be able to nurture and build on. There are reports today that Reid wants to trade for Foles. I have no idea what he would offer, but depending on what Kelly and Shurmer think of Foles I don't think it should be less than KC's third.

It all boils down to the "brilliance" and coaching ability of Kelly and Shurmer. Can they take a reasonably talented, intelligent pocket passer and build a SB offense around him? Do they look at the run option offense as a durable scheme in the NFL or do they look at what happened to RGIII and decide it will run its course in a couple of years then die due to the QB mortality rate.

As I keep saying, I'm excited about watching this all evolve.

You have to be careful with these selective statistics. Remember Kevin Kolb was the only QB in history to have back to back 300+ yard games as a starter
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Feb 15 2013, 12:05 PM) *
You have to be careful with these selective statistics. Remember Kevin Kolb was the only QB in history to have back to back 300+ yard games as a starter


Yep. Those stats are super cherry picked. Foles was below average across the board last yeah. I think he has a chance to be a decent QB, but his success last year is highly exaggerated.
Eyrie
Kelly's reputation is of a coach who will tailor his offense to fit the available skills, rather than try to force square pegs into round holes.

So if he thinks that Foles is the guy then the playcalling will reflect that. I don't believe Foles is the long term answer, but there is enough there to make him a solid starter for 2013 and depth after then (assuming that he suits the offense designed for his long term successor).
D Rock
QUOTE (Phits @ Feb 15 2013, 04:05 PM) *
You have to be careful with these selective statistics. Remember Kevin Kolb was the only QB in history to have back to back 300+ yard games as a starter

Kolb can still be a decent QB if he ever gets an O line in front of him. It's not like other QBs are succeeding in AZ or Philly behind shit O line play.
Phits
QUOTE (D Rock @ Feb 15 2013, 02:42 PM) *
Kolb can still be a decent QB ......

Not in the NFL. He's a deer in headlights. KK needs some serious de-programming from a good football shrink.
D Rock
QUOTE (Phits @ Feb 15 2013, 09:38 PM) *
Not in the NFL. He's a deer in headlights. KK needs some serious de-programming from a good football shrink.

You may be right. He's likely ruined between the ears by all the beatings.
mcnabbulous
He always played scared from what I saw. His instinct was to move backwards away from the LOS, even when pressure wasnt there. I liked his physical skillset more than Foles, but Foles seems to have a much better feel for the game.

nephillymike
Wow, great stats Z!!

I was going to look up Foles first six games stats vs. the greats and see how he did.

But those stats look really impressive.

We just heard Vick on WIP the other day say about tipped balls, injured OL etc. The kid never made ANY excuses.

He had Andy's chuck and duck offense, a porous OL, no Shady for a bit and a D that sucked ass. He's worth a chance.

I keep the kid around.

Kelly says the #1 thing he expects from his QB is quick and accurate decisions and that turnovers are the QB fault. I think that Vick is behind Foles in those areas. Think about that as a rookie.

If Vick can't improve on his decisions and ball protection, he will likely get a short leash.

Dixon? Please! He's a 5th roud pick who wasn't one of the top 96 QB's last year. 3rd string Doug Pederson teacher.

Keep the kid. If it is open competition, then we're either getting a good Vick, or getting a one more year experienced Foles.
Eyrie
Some interesting comments by Tommy Lawlor

QUOTE
I know many people think Foles cannot play for Kelly. I disagree with that. Kelly can tailor his offense to the QB. At Oregon, the QBs weren’t the best passers in the world, but were mobile. He used them in the run game. As Kelly himself has said, if he had Tom Brady there would be no QB running.


QUOTE
I can’t stress enough when trying to understand Kelly’s offense that the QB must be a good passer first and a runner second. If you just run the ball, the defense is going to load the box. That is going to make things difficult. Kelly wants balance. The QB has to be a good passer so the defense plays back and that gives room for the RB to run. Kelly can adjust for a less mobile QB, but I think he’d be lost if the QB wasn’t an effective passer.


Note to Foles - improving your mobility will help.
Note to Vick - learning to pass effectively is essential.
Zero
Yeah, nobody is claiming that Foles is Brady. But, a good coach who actually "puts his players in a position to make plays" will have a scheme and call plays that will maximize the players' potential and make them look better than they are.

Even though I knocked Reid for this, he did have a pretty good record at making QBs look good here but they sucked after leaving. It just seemed like after he had TOO he got away from that and became mesmerized with the long ball ... not to mention his pass first mentality.
D Rock
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Feb 16 2013, 10:50 AM) *
Note to Foles - improving your mobility will help.

Possible
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Feb 16 2013, 10:50 AM) *
Note to Vick - learning to pass effectively is essential.

Not Possible
samaroo
I've been wanting to see Foles on a real "team" since he got here. I think he can be a solid starter in this league. Even if you disagree, getting a 3rd for him shouldn't be enough. The average 3rd rounder in this league is probably worth less than Foles' potential upside, which I personally think is quite large.

I want to see him play QB with this being "his" team, and see what he can do. We've seen Vick, and been left wanting. Why would anyone NOT start Foles?
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Zero @ Feb 16 2013, 06:04 AM) *
Even though I knocked Reid for this, he did have a pretty good record at making QBs look good here but they sucked after leaving. It just seemed like after he had TOO he got away from that and became mesmerized with the long ball ... not to mention his pass first mentality.


The most maddening thing, he would almost always call a balanced attack when McNabb wasn't in the game, and this would allow our other QBs the luxury of not having to shoulder the load of a predictable, 50-pass per game offense. Then when McNabb would come back, back to normal. *sigh*
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Feb 19 2013, 12:29 PM) *
The most maddening thing, he would almost always call a balanced attack when McNabb wasn't in the game, and this would allow our other QBs the luxury of not having to shoulder the load of a predictable, 50-pass per game offense. Then when McNabb would come back, back to normal. *sigh*


Because Donovan couldn't complete routine passes, so statistically it made sense to give him more opportunities in an effort to move the chains. We also found ourselves in more passing situations as a result of that and the excessive amounts of sacks he took.

The same exact thing happened in DC, despite everyone's certainty that he would thrive because he finally had a coach who knew how to "use the running game."

Contrast that with how Shanahan used RGIII, someone who is extremely accurate, and you'll see that it wasn't a conscious decision, but rather a necessity.

Edit: to put some numbers behind it, he threw 5 more pass attempts per game 36-31 from 2009 (Phi) to 2010 (Was) and 10 more attempts per game than RGIII.

Edit 2: that last edit was worded confusingly, but the 36 pass attempts per game was in Was, 31 in Phi
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 19 2013, 12:21 PM) *
Because Donovan couldn't complete routine passes, so statistically it made sense to give him more opportunities in an effort to move the chains. We also found ourselves in more passing situations as a result of that and the excessive amounts of sacks he took.

The same exact thing happened in DC, despite everyone's certainty that he would thrive because he finally had a coach who knew how to "use the running game."

Contrast that with how Shanahan used RGIII, someone who is extremely accurate, and you'll see that it wasn't a conscious decision, but rather a necessity.

Edit: to put some numbers behind it, he threw 5 more pass attempts per game 36-31 from 2009 (Phi) to 2010 (Was) and 10 more attempts per game than RGIII.


I stopped reading after the first two words......when you are faced with facts that can be proven time and time again in many different ways, and you still choose to justify what you so desperately want to believe in, it becomes dogma.

As I said before - I will be sure to keep updating our record with a running game and without it, every week, just for you! wub.gif And you can keep denying it.
mcnabbulous
That's too bad, you could have leaned a thing of two about reality. Enjoy dogma.
D Rock
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Feb 19 2013, 05:34 PM) *
I stopped reading after the first two words......when you are faced with facts that can be proven time and time again in many different ways, and you still choose to justify what you so desperately want to believe in, it becomes dogma.

As I said before - I will be sure to keep updating our record with a running game and without it, every week, just for you! wub.gif And you can keep denying it.

I love how a certain set of this board can convince themselves that their opinion is fact.
SLOiggles
I don't understand the whole Foles isn't mobile argument. Where and how did this start because quite frankly what I've seen of him, he's been able to move around in the pocket and buy time for his skill players to make plays. Maybe I'm just not watching the same games though wacko.gif hunch.gif
Eyrie
QUOTE (SLOiggles @ Feb 24 2013, 09:37 AM) *
I don't understand the whole Foles isn't mobile argument. Where and how did this start because quite frankly what I've seen of him, he's been able to move around in the pocket and buy time for his skill players to make plays. Maybe I'm just not watching the same games though wacko.gif hunch.gif

I think it's a comparative argument. He isn't mobile enough to run the option like Vick, but he is able to move in the pocket and buy himself a little more time which is all he needs to do. No-one will mistake Foles for Marino when it comes to immobility (and sadly not for passing).
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