Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Trade back twice?
Eagles Forum > Philadelphia Eagles Message Board > Philadelphia Eagles or Football Related Discussion
VICKtory
Anyone thought of this as a possibility? Trade back into the 7-12 range then again into the 15-18 range now were looking at 3 second round picks?

I'm thinking this would be ideal if we could pull it off, pick up a stud pass rushing OLB that we'll need for whatever defense we end up running, Jones could possibly fall due to his condition if not its very likely Dion Jordan shows up here (who Chip knows well).

That fixes one need, and then in the second we can pick up best available Nose, Saftey, and Corner with our next three picks filling pretty much every position of need we have on defense for whatever scheme we may run (sounds like we will for sure need a nose type player even if its a 4-3 under and we'll need a versatile pass rushing LB as well).

Take best available secondary player again in the third round, may be able to find a starting saftey or nickel corner there. Linebacker could be another possibility here because we'll need depth here if someone that appears to be a steal falls here.

Then in the later rounds we pick up more secondary players, a tight end, LB, and some OL depth hoping to find a gem.

Sounds a little crazy but is this actually...
A) possible
cool.gif a good idea

Thoughts?
mcnabbulous
Everyone loves to talk about "moving back" in the draft, but there has to be someone that teams want to move up for. For a while, it always seemed to be a pipe dream. The new salary slotting obviously makes trades more viable (see: last year) so it might have a chance of happening.

I'd be fine with moving back. I definitely don't think we're one player away and I'm not entirely enthusiastic about this draft class. I'd probably be more open to moving back for a first rounder next year, in lieu of a second rounder this year.
VICKtory
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 13 2013, 11:42 AM) *
Everyone loves to talk about "moving back" in the draft, but there has to be someone that teams want to move up for. For a while, it always seemed to be a pipe dream. The new salary slotting obviously makes trades more viable (see: last year) so it might have a chance of happening.

I'd be fine with moving back. I definitely don't think we're one player away and I'm not entirely enthusiastic about this draft class. I'd probably be more open to moving back for a first rounder next year, in lieu of a second rounder this year.


Never even thought about picking up a pick next year. I'm hoping Joekel or Smith falls to us so teams will have the desire to trade up to snag one of those two, Arizona or Buffalo maybe?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (VICKtory @ Feb 13 2013, 11:45 AM) *
Never even thought about picking up a pick next year. I'm hoping Joekel or Smith falls to us so teams will have the desire to trade up to snag one of those two, Arizona or Buffalo maybe?

Yeah, I think Smith is the X-factor. Some team will fall in love with him. Maybe us. I hope he's available at 4 so we have more options.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (VICKtory @ Feb 13 2013, 11:33 AM) *
Anyone thought of this as a possibility? Trade back into the 7-12 range then again into the 15-18 range now were looking at 3 second round picks?


I can't imagine us actually using our #4 pick - I would be ok with trading up to the 7-12 range with another 2nd round pick, but nothing beyond that.

Absolute superstud LBs and other defensive players have come out of the last few drafts in the first 15 picks, and that looks to be the case this year. I'd also be ok with an OL, but I think since we're going 3-4 getting a potential star OLB is essential right away, or a lineman who would work out in a 3-4.
samaroo
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 13 2013, 12:42 PM) *
I'd be fine with moving back. I definitely don't think we're one player away and I'm not entirely enthusiastic about this draft class. I'd probably be more open to moving back for a first rounder next year, in lieu of a second rounder this year.


Yeah, one-player-away teams don't usually have the 4th pick. laugh.gif

OP, if our draft works out exactly as you say, I'd be good with that. Unfortunately, it's harder than that. Every team has the same plan! "Pick awesome, undervalued immediate starter at current roster hole."
Dreagon
The problem with trading back is that there ARE a couple of offensive tackles and a defensive tackle worthy of that fourth pick.
Now one thing you guys might consider is trading towards next years draft, in the hopes that there is a true franchise QB in it. Especially since you guys already signed Vick for this year.
samaroo
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Feb 14 2013, 10:09 AM) *
The problem with trading back is that there ARE a couple of offensive tackles and a defensive tackle worthy of that fourth pick.
Now one thing you guys might consider is trading towards next years draft, in the hopes that there is a true franchise QB in it. Especially since you guys already signed Vick for this year.


I would be okay with swapping our 1st this year for a 1st next year. It figures we get a top-5 pick in the most unexciting draft in recent memory. Can we just trade our pick for the exclusive rights to sign Jadaveon Clowney when he comes out?
Zero
Here's another crazy thought: what if Kelly really likes one of the QBs this year and is sending up smoke screens by signing Vick? Teams won't think the Eagles want a QB and may not deal to move up ... or something.
samaroo
QUOTE (Zero @ Feb 14 2013, 09:02 PM) *
Here's another crazy thought: what if Kelly really likes one of the QBs this year and is sending up smoke screens by signing Vick? Teams won't think the Eagles want a QB and may not deal to move up ... or something.


I hope not. As others here have stated, I'm hoping to be done with the "outsmarting" everybody.
nephillymike
Are there any skiers, firemen or WR's who like to thank their hands available if we trade down??

Just wondering.
nephillymike
BTW, not a fan of the trade back. We've earned that fourth spot. Let's use it for a stud OT!!
D Rock
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Feb 15 2013, 04:22 AM) *
BTW, not a fan of the trade back. We've earned that fourth spot. Let's use it for a stud OT!!

Absotively !!!

It's rare futility that leads to a top 5 pick. We earned it. We were that bad. This team needs an infusion of legitimate blue chip players.

I'd rather have a single blue chipper than 20 "potential upside" guys.

And please people. Stop with this "weak draft class" bullshit. So there aren't 5 first round QBs this year. That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of legit top 10 players available.
Eyrie
QUOTE (samaroo @ Feb 14 2013, 10:42 PM) *
I would be okay with swapping our 1st this year for a 1st next year. It figures we get a top-5 pick in the most unexciting draft in recent memory. Can we just trade our pick for the exclusive rights to sign Jadaveon Clowney when he comes out?

We could trade our second this year for a first next year, but not the #4 overall pick.

On the other hand I could live with trading back in the top ten, as long as we use last season's disaster to draft a stud player.
chuckp
If we do trade back I like that Dion Jordan, Not just because Kelly knows him but how athletic he is for a big dude....they say he can drop back in coverage alot to.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Feb 15 2013, 10:58 AM) *
And please people. Stop with this "weak draft class" bullshit. So there aren't 5 first round QBs this year. That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of legit top 10 players available.


For me, it has less to do with QB prospects and more to do with a lack of consensus #1 pick.
JaxEagle
QUOTE (samaroo @ Feb 14 2013, 05:42 PM) *
I would be okay with swapping our 1st this year for a 1st next year. It figures we get a top-5 pick in the most unexciting draft in recent memory. Can we just trade our pick for the exclusive rights to sign Jadaveon Clowney when he comes out?

Exactly. I wouldn't trade up for anything in this draft - well heck in our case there isn't much trading up that you can do anyway... I'd certainly be ok with trading back and getting extra picks. As for next draft, I'd trade whatever it took to get Clowney. I'd bet on him being as good as a Lawrence Taylor type right now. Dare I say that the guy could even be Reggie-esque...
JaxEagle
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Feb 15 2013, 01:35 PM) *
We could trade our second this year for a first next year, but not the #4 overall pick.

On the other hand I could live with trading back in the top ten, as long as we use last season's disaster to draft a stud player.


Let's trade whatever we need to be in a position to trade into the #1 pick next year. Heck, we may naturally get that pick anyway... yikes...
samaroo
QUOTE (JaxEagle @ Feb 18 2013, 08:38 PM) *
Let's trade whatever we need to be in a position to trade into the #1 pick next year. Heck, we may naturally get that pick anyway... yikes...


Ugh. Someone said it aloud.
Eyrie
QUOTE (JaxEagle @ Feb 19 2013, 12:38 AM) *
Let's trade whatever we need to be in a position to trade into the #1 pick next year. Heck, we may naturally get that pick anyway... yikes...

I'll beat DRock to the ITYS - we should never have kept Vick tongue.gif
chuckp
QUOTE (JaxEagle @ Feb 18 2013, 07:36 PM) *
Exactly. I wouldn't trade up for anything in this draft - well heck in our case there isn't much trading up that you can do anyway... I'd certainly be ok with trading back and getting extra picks. As for next draft, I'd trade whatever it took to get Clowney. I'd bet on him being as good as a Lawrence Taylor type right now. Dare I say that the guy could even be Reggie-esque...



Yeah I want Clowney on our team, dude is a beast!
iggleslover49
QUOTE (chuckp @ Feb 17 2013, 12:55 PM) *
If we do trade back I like that Dion Jordan, Not just because Kelly knows him but how athletic he is for a big dude....they say he can drop back in coverage alot to.

I second this. He's a beast. After watching highlights of Warmick, Joekel, Dion Jordan, and Dee Miliner; we have got to get this guy. I say use the number 4 pick on him. Former tight end and listed 6'7"? And guys are saying he covered the slot sometimes? He would make an Immediate impact at SLB for us AND cover the Gronkowski types down field, as well as get sacks.
VICKtory
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Feb 19 2013, 10:17 PM) *
I second this. He's a beast. After watching highlights of Warmick, Joekel, Dion Jordan, and Dee Miliner; we have got to get this guy. I say use the number 4 pick on him. Former tight end and listed 6'7"? And guys are saying he covered the slot sometimes? He would make an Immediate impact at SLB for us AND cover the Gronkowski types down field, as well as get sacks.


Agreed. My only issue is his run support, not as strong and able to hold his ground as others, however if he can add a little weight the sky is the limit for him. I feel like he would fit perfectly as our strong side backer if we do run the 4-3 under
VICKtory
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Feb 19 2013, 10:17 PM) *
I second this. He's a beast. After watching highlights of Warmick, Joekel, Dion Jordan, and Dee Miliner; we have got to get this guy. I say use the number 4 pick on him. Former tight end and listed 6'7"? And guys are saying he covered the slot sometimes? He would make an Immediate impact at SLB for us AND cover the Gronkowski types down field, as well as get sacks.


Ok just watched a few more videos with this guy. I'm officially sold. We need to take him with the 4th overall pick (he may even go higher). He absolutely EXPLODES off of the ball
D Rock
For me, after looking at many projected top 10 guy's highlights and reading "the experts" and "scouts" reports on these guys, I'm thinking I want Chance Warmack in round 1.

I'd even take him in @ #4.

I know OGuards don't normally go that high, but this guy is an absolute BEAST. He's like Shawn Andrews without the troubles between the ears. He'd come in and dominate right away. And we have his college position coach in place who knows him better than anyone.

Mayock has him as his "best overall player in the entire draft." Better than Dion. Better than the OTs, CBs, PassRushers and DTs projected in the top 5.

I know we have more pressing needs on the Defensive side of the ball.

But we have all been jumping up and down for over a decade wanting to see more running the ball. Wanting more smashmouth. Wanting more physical domination.

I believe Chip will bring the run. Especially considering our weakness at QB and relative embarrassment of riches at RB. Warmack would bring the smashmouth and physical domination. Absolute BEAST.

Put Chance in at RG and this O line will MAUL front 7s around the league, force folks to commit 8 to the box and taking the top off the defense. Then we kill em with 3-4 play action shots over the top to our speedy wideouts and it's game over.

Nothing will help the defense more than a dominant run game that keeps them on the sideline.
mcnabbulous
D, the fact that you think we should take a guard 4th overall is exactly why I hate this draft.

I'm not saying you're wrong, simply that it's a ridiculous notion that an interior lineman would go in the top-5.

This draft sucks. I'd be open to Jordan, but I've seen him get neutralized and unable to get off blocks in space. I love his upside, but he's no sure thing, which is what I would hope for at #4.

Warmack might be a sure thing, but a fucking guard at #4 makes me sick.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 20 2013, 07:12 PM) *
D, the fact that you think we should take a guard 4th overall is exactly why I hate this draft.

I'm not saying you're wrong, simply that it's a ridiculous notion that an interior lineman would go in the top-5.

This draft sucks. I'd be open to Jordan, but I've seen him get neutralized and unable to get off blocks in space. I love his upside, but he's no sure thing, which is what I would hope for at #4.

Warmack might be a sure thing, but a fucking guard at #4 makes me sick.

It's ridiculous based on "conventional wisdom."

Kelly was brought here to refute "conventional wisdom" and be ahead of the curve.

So too, a top 5 pick needs to get us an all pro. Warmack certainly appears to be just that. I don't care where he plays, so much as I'm hell bent on getting an (any) all pro.

Edited to Add: Interior O lineman not going early in round 1 was based in part on the fiscal reality of the past. Now that we're no longer forced to commit 60 mill to these top guys, it's less of a "ridiculous" move as it would have been prior to the rookie wage scale and the new CBA. Another factor to consider is the LOOOOOOOOONG shelf life of interior o lineman. With 1 pick you could get an all pro on your O line for upwards of 15 years. That's tremendous value for a single draft pick.

.................

It looks to me like we can expect a heavily run based attack. That helps the defense and will certainly be fun to see. Warmack would make our o line simply unstoppable. I'm sold.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Feb 20 2013, 02:16 PM) *
It's ridiculous based on "conventional wisdom."

Kelly was brought here to refute "conventional wisdom" and be ahead of the curve.

So too, a top 5 pick needs to get us an all pro. Warmack certainly appears to be just that. I don't care where he plays, so much as I'm hell bent on getting an (any) all pro.

I think it's conventional wisdom in the sense that the first round (especially this early) is reserved for impact players. Interior linemen tend not to offer that.

QUOTE
Edited to Add: Interior O lineman not going early in round 1 was based in part on the fiscal reality of the past. Now that we're no longer forced to commit 60 mill to these top guys, it's less of a "ridiculous" move as it would have been prior to the rookie wage scale and the new CBA. Another factor to consider is the LOOOOOOOOONG shelf life of interior o lineman. With 1 pick you could get an all pro on your O line for upwards of 15 years. That's tremendous value for a single draft pick.

I can appreciate this sentiment, especially regarding the financial element. With that said, I still don't agree with drafting a guard that high. I fucking hated when we drafted Watkins in the first round, but there were like 8 reasons for that.

QUOTE
It looks to me like we can expect a heavily run based attack. That helps the defense and will certainly be fun to see. Warmack would make our o line simply unstoppable. I'm sold.

Because I have little confidence in the top of this draft producing any sure fire studs, it wouldn't completely piss me off. It still speaks volumes to the mediocrity at the top of the draft this year, in my opinion.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 20 2013, 07:44 PM) *
I think it's conventional wisdom in the sense that the first round (especially this early) is reserved for impact players. Interior linemen tend not to offer that.


I can appreciate this sentiment, especially regarding the financial element. With that said, I still don't agree with drafting a guard that high. I fucking hated when we drafted Watkins in the first round, but there were like 8 reasons for that.


Because I have little confidence in the top of this draft producing any sure fire studs, it wouldn't completely piss me off. It still speaks volumes to the mediocrity at the top of the draft this year, in my opinion.

Again . . .

He looks to be the closest to "sure fire impact player" in this pool. Take away the conventional wisdom and go with BPA which looks to be Chance.

Let's also look at other recent first round interior O lineman. This guy looks to be better than Watkins (by a mile). Better than Decastro. Better than the Pouncey Bros. Better than Shawn Andrews. Better than Steve Hutchinson (or at least on par with him). Logic would suggest then that he'd go higher than the teens and low twenties when these other guys went.

I understand your disappointment in having a top 5 pick in a reportedly weak draft with regards to the top 10 players. Nonetheless, it's the reality with which we're faced. If your assessment of the overall talent pool is accurate (and it looks like it is) then it might be tough to trade down. The logical response is to take the best value available at our pick. That looks to me like Chance. Considering the lessened financial commitment under the new CBA and relatively longer shelf life of the position group . . . I'd rather go with this "sure thing" than take a flier on upside and potential.

And again, for whatever it's worth . . . Mayock has Chance as his #1 player in this talent pool. I for one agree.

.........................

ETA: If you were faced with the proposition that you could have Larry Allen or Steve Hutchinson in their early 20s in exchange for your first round pick, you'd be a fool to say no. Especially considering there are no top flight QBs, WRs, DTs, Passrushers, Corners or Safeties available at your pick.
chuckp
We'll have to see what happens in free agency to, u think Micheal Johnson would fit here if the Bengals don't use the franchise tag on him
mcnabbulous
Just saw Kelly talking about Dion Jordan on NFLN and he seemed pretty high on him, despite his attempts to downplay his thoughts.

I'd say it's a very viable pick at #4.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 21 2013, 09:31 PM) *
Just saw Kelly talking about Dion Jordan on NFLN and he seemed pretty high on him, despite his attempts to downplay his thoughts.

I'd say it's a very viable pick at #4.

I'm intreagued by Dion's physical stature, but scared away by a dirth of production (only 14.5 sacks for his career), lack of experience (played TE until 2010), and reported difficulty putting and keeping on bulk (he played at 225 last season).

This is a guy that could go either way in the pros. The only thing about him that appears certain, is that he'll need a year or 2 to develope the bulk and upper body strength to hold the edge as a 3 / 4 SAM.

For me, that's too many question marks for pick #4. I'd be more comfortable taking him mid round. Most mocks I see have him going anywhere from pick 9 to late 20s.

Pick 4 needs to be a slam dunk.

Warmack, Joekel, Lotulele (in that order) are the only "slam dunks" in this draft.
iggleslover49
We've got the pieces in place to put points on the board. But this D is a long way away from being legit, especially with Graham or Curry projected at SLB? No thanks, I don't have confidence in them playing in space. Besides SLB(LB in general) has been such a hole for so long, I'm stoked about Jordan and the upside he brings to the LBs.
D Rock
You wanna help the D?

Keep em on the sideline.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Feb 21 2013, 05:13 PM) *
You wanna help the D?

Keep em on the sideline.

That doesn't seem to be Chip's way of business.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 21 2013, 11:19 PM) *
That doesn't seem to be Chip's way of business.

Chip is a run first coach.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Feb 21 2013, 05:21 PM) *
Chip is a run first coach.

No, Chip is a score first coach. He's on record saying he doesn't care how he does it. The results have been scoring fast. Really fast.

They were 99th (out of 124 teams) in Time of Possession last year.

Edit: They were dead last the year before.

Source
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 21 2013, 11:26 PM) *
No, Chip is a score first coach. He's on record saying he doesn't care how he does it. The results have been scoring fast. Really fast.

They were 99th (out of 124 teams) in Time of Possession last year.

Edit: They were dead last the year before.

Source

Yup. Scoring points sho does suck.

He's still a run first coach.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Feb 21 2013, 05:31 PM) *
Yup. Scoring points sho does suck.

He's still a run first coach.

We'll see if it's so easy in the pros.

But run first vs. pass first is irrelevant to this conversation. My point is that he doesn't control the clock. Which was the premise of your "keep the D on the sidelines" post.
VICKtory
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 21 2013, 05:34 PM) *
We'll see if it's so easy in the pros.

But run first vs. pass first is irrelevant to this conversation. My point is that he doesn't control the clock. Which was the premise of your "keep the D on the sidelines" post.


Running more does however shorten the game
chuckp
You guys like the Philly kid out of Florida, Floyed...I don't care who we take at 4, I just want a future all pro at their position lol and if that is taking the non sexy pick Warmick I would do it. He also looks like a beast. I still get sick to my stomach hearing Danny Watkins name called in the first round.
SLOiggles
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 21 2013, 02:26 PM) *
No, Chip is a score first coach. He's on record saying he doesn't care how he does it. The results have been scoring fast. Really fast.

Source



Well, after the debacle of last season, I wouldn't mind points in any fashion. 29th in the league in points, 30th in turnovers...with all those "weapons" too. Warmack or Joeckel should be the only two options at number four. If they're both gone (which I believe is a strong possibility), trade down as best as possible. And before everyone says it's a weak draft class, that doesn't mean that a team won't fall in love with someone during this week's underwear convention in Indy. All it takes is one team obsessed with a player...
iggleslover49
QUOTE (D Rock @ Feb 21 2013, 05:13 PM) *
You wanna help the D?

Keep em on the sideline.

I understand your theory. I'd much rather keep their offense on the sideline though. We have to see Morris and RG3 twice a year for atleast the next three years. And Billy Davis MUST have pieces to play with. I trust Chip and Stoutland with the offense.
D Rock
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Feb 22 2013, 04:05 AM) *
I understand your theory. I'd much rather keep their offense on the sideline though. We have to see Morris and RG3 twice a year for atleast the next three years. And Billy Davis MUST have pieces to play with. I trust Chip and Stoutland with the offense.

Exactly. If our Defense is on the sideline, so is their Offense.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (D Rock @ Feb 21 2013, 10:25 PM) *
Exactly. If our Defense is on the sideline, so is their Offense.

Exactly. And you get our defense AND their offense on the sideline via, 3 and outs and turnovers.
chuckp
Watched some highlights of the BCS title game and Chance Warmack had his way with them, someone said his calf muscles are the size of Chad Hall lol
D Rock
There's little doubt in my mind that he's the best player in this draft.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2017 Invision Power Services, Inc.