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mcnabbulous
I knew Chip Kelly seemed too intrigued to get rid of him. We've got one more year of Vick, fellas. I hope Chip can get the most out of him.

I'm curious if this means that Foles may be on the block. Would Andy want him in KC?

edit: deal was restructured for one year.
VICKtory
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 11 2013, 11:53 AM) *
I knew Chip Kelly seemed too intrigued to get rid of him. We've got one more year of Vick, fellas. I hope Chip can get the most out of him.

I'm curious if this means that Foles may be on the block. Would Andy want him in KC?

edit: deal was restructured for one year.


Maybe, just maybe, the idea behind this is to increase Vick's trade value? (Wishful thinking)
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (VICKtory @ Feb 11 2013, 11:59 AM) *
Maybe, just maybe, the idea behind this is to increase Vick's trade value? (Wishful thinking)

I find it hard to think that Vick would be willing to restructure, only to be traded. Especially given the fact that he seems to have settled down in the area (owns a home, his wife/fiance owns a local business.)

Frankly, I'm okay with it. Vick still gives us the best chance to win immediately, although I admit that chance is virtually none.

I like going into the season with a sliver of chance. With Foles, there is none, IMO.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 11 2013, 11:53 AM) *
I knew Chip Kelly seemed too intrigued to get rid of him. We've got one more year of Vick, fellas. I hope Chip can get the most out of him.

I'm curious if this means that Foles may be on the block. Would Andy want him in KC?

edit: deal was restructured for one year.


I figured that one of the things that enticed Kelly to sign was to see what he could do with Vick in his offense, so this doesn't surprise me at all. I have nothing against making Foles earn his job in competition, and he'll get his chance this year anyway, as there's no way Vick will stay healthy for the whole year. I would think Kelly's style of playcalling would help Vick as well.
VICKtory
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 11 2013, 12:04 PM) *
I find it hard to think that Vick would be willing to restructure, only to be traded. Especially given the fact that he seems to have settled down in the area (owns a home, his wife/fiance owns a local business.)

Frankly, I'm okay with it. Vick still gives us the best chance to win immediately, although I admit that chance is virtually none.

I like going into the season with a sliver of chance. With Foles, there is none, IMO.


Personally I still believe Foles > Vick. I'm excited to see what Foles can do with a healthy supporting cast, we know what we've got with Vick already. I think when he has has more than a second to throw and our top guys to throw too Foles could be pretty damn good. But we just gotta wait and see, I'm excited either way
BirdsWinBaby
If you are going to throw away a year for transition time Vick staying doesn't matter. An aging QB who can't read defenses, stay healthy, hold onto the ball or even run as fast as he used to doesn't excite me much

On another note, chip Kelly better be Christ on the sideline....if he isn't these decisions (coaches/vick/offense) will go really badly, really fast
canadianeagle
I get that fans would hold reservations about Foles, particularly after the KK debacle. What I don't understand is why so many seem to have written him off. By all indications he is extremely intelligent, has incredible poise, and has a quick release.

Maybe I'm overly optimistic but I'm just not ready to name him the next Bobby Hoying
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (canadianeagle @ Feb 11 2013, 12:46 PM) *
and has a quick release.

I haven't witnessed this. From what I have seen, his throwing motion is long and unorthodox.
chuckp
I was on board with Chip now I'm questioning every move he's made.....every year this organization makes me want to start routing for another team. What how many other bums come back from last years loser of a team.
Eyrie
Bringing Vick back is only my second worst nightmare.

My worst nightmare is Kelly deciding to start Vick and he plays like the Vick that we've seen all career other than a brief few games under Reid.

Chuckp is right - illogical moves that don't work out will cost Kelly a lot of goodwill as well as costing us games. I thought we'd got rid of the super-genius head coach who knew better than reality dictated.
HOUSEoPAIN
On a side note, I can't wait to turn on WIP today after work. Should be some lively discussion going on.
Dreagon
I'll admit, I'm stunned. I'm not even sure what the point of a one year deal with Vick is. To have him start while you develop somebody behind him? But yall already have Foles who now has a few games under his belt. If it's him, he needs to be out there on the field.
iggleslover49
I told ya'll he would still be here when guys was tellin me otherwise. How crazy do I sound now?
CT_Eagle
Will the taint ever leave this team!

I was really happy and looking forward to not having anyone on this team that I truly despise. All of the clowns were gone or soon to be gone as far as I was concerned.

Oh well, what's one more year right?
Rick
I'm not surprised but I'm not happy about it at all. There is just no reason to keep him on the team. He's proven he ain't ever gonna be a good QB in the NFL. I'm tired of hearing about how much potential he has. At some point, you have to live up to it...he hasn't.

I really hope he's not planning on starting him. That would be ridiculous. Either draft/pickup someone else or give Foles a chance. We know Vick can't get it done. We don't know about Foles or anyone else they may bring in.
iggleslover49
Fact is Vick is more talented than you guys make him out to be.
D Rock
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Feb 11 2013, 11:14 PM) *
Fact is Vick is more talented than you guys make him out to be.

No doubt. No one has EVER turned the ball over at the rate he does. He's the BEST !!!

Dreagon
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Feb 11 2013, 04:14 PM) *
Fact is Vick is more talented than you guys make him out to be.


Actually, what I think this means is that Kelly watched a bunch of tape on Foles and doesn't see a future there. Then he looked at whats available in the draft and doesn't see an immediate starter there either. So he is giving Vick a year while he either drafts a guy he thinks he can develop this year, or more likely he's got his eye on what he thinks will be his franchise QB in the draft next year.
bwc2112
Just WOW, looked at both sides and this is the one I would have not bet on.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Feb 11 2013, 05:32 PM) *
Actually, what I think this means is that Kelly watched a bunch of tape on Foles and doesn't see a future there. Then he looked at whats available in the draft and doesn't see an immediate starter there either. So he is giving Vick a year while he either drafts a guy he thinks he can develop this year, or more likely he's got his eye on what he thinks will be his franchise QB in the draft next year.

And that's what I've expected the whole time. But some guys exaggerate how bad Vick is. Instead of looking at the bigger picture, the offense in general. Guys are killing Vick like he wasn't an MVP candidate just two years ago. You don't just cut somebody like that without atleast seeing what he can do in a new system.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Feb 11 2013, 05:45 PM) *
And that's what I've expected the whole time. But some guys exaggerate how bad Vick is. Instead of looking at the bigger picture, the offense in general. Guys are killing Vick like he wasn't an MVP candidate just two years ago. You don't just cut somebody like that without atleast seeing what he can do in a new system.

I agree with this and have been on record believing Kelly would be too intrigued by Vick's talents to let him go.

With that said, he's proven to be better when defenses haven't planned for him. He may even catch some people off-guard early in the season within the new system.

But defenses have always caught up to Vick, and he has never been able to adjust his game to compensate. Which is why he's a great athlete with unprecedented talent. But a mediocre QB.
Pbfan
according to PFT they are going to compete for the starting job. Seems like a big risk signing a possibly $10m QB that may not even start...
Zero
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Feb 11 2013, 05:32 PM) *
Actually, what I think this means is that Kelly watched a bunch of tape on Foles and doesn't see a future there. Then he looked at whats available in the draft and doesn't see an immediate starter there either. So he is giving Vick a year while he either drafts a guy he thinks he can develop this year, or more likely he's got his eye on what he thinks will be his franchise QB in the draft next year.


Vick is going to "compete" for the starter. If Foles or Joe Schmoe beats him out he could be trade bait or released outright. This isn't the end of the story, only the beginning of the last chapter. This isn't Reid writing the script, this is someone we don't know.
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (Zero @ Feb 11 2013, 07:49 PM) *
Vick is going to "compete" for the starter. If Foles or Joe Schmoe beats him out he could be trade bait or released outright. This isn't the end of the story, only the beginning of the last chapter. This isn't Reid writing the script, this is someone we don't know.



while i agree that this may not be the end of the story...the "compete" nonsense is spin

you dont sign a guy to that contract because you think he will come in and "compete", frankly Vick wouldnt have signed it if he thought there was a chance he wasnt gonna be the starter

one or both of these QBs will not be on the team come opening day. they are trying to spin this as some sort of competition to increase their trade value. if they announce that vick is the starter it declares that they dont think much of Foles. this way they can not only maintain the idea that Foles is good enough to start, but they ALSO can trick some team into thinking...

"give us all you got for Vick if you want him....we clearly believe he can win for us." if they wind up trading him to a team (after he signs a one yr deal) that doesnt want to commit more than one year to him, it means Vick got duped by the Eagles FO, but thats just business.
Zero
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ Feb 11 2013, 11:02 PM) *
one or both of these QBs will not be on the team come opening day. they are trying to spin this as some sort of competition to increase their trade value.


Yep, probably told Vick that he could either start here or, by re-doing his contract go to another team as starter. Nobody wanted that contract.
Rick
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Feb 11 2013, 05:14 PM) *
Fact is Vick is more talented than you guys make him out to be.

Who cares!!?? I'm sick of hearing this about him. I don't care about the talent he has, rather the talent he shows on the field. Vick has always been a guy who should be better than he performs, however, he's never performed up to his talent level...NEVER.

At what point do you finally admit he's never going to live up to his potential? I mean, he's played 10+ years. If he hasn't done it by now, he's never going to do it.
Rick
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Feb 11 2013, 05:32 PM) *
Actually, what I think this means is that Kelly watched a bunch of tape on Foles and doesn't see a future there. Then he looked at whats available in the draft and doesn't see an immediate starter there either. So he is giving Vick a year while he either drafts a guy he thinks he can develop this year, or more likely he's got his eye on what he thinks will be his franchise QB in the draft next year.

From what I've heard about what Kelly thinks about Foles this can't be further from the truth. Apparently, he loves the guy and what he can do.

And I'll ask again, why keep Vick, whom you KNOW can't get it done for a year rather than see what someone else may be able to do? You'll learn far more by letting someone else play than letting Vick go out and do what he does.
Rick
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 11 2013, 05:54 PM) *
But defenses have always caught up to Vick, and he has never been able to adjust his game to compensate. Which is why he's a great athlete with unprecedented talent. But a mediocre QB.

Ok this is TWICE now that I've agreed with mcnabbulous. What's the world coming to?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Rick @ Feb 12 2013, 07:20 AM) *
Ok this is TWICE now that I've agreed with mcnabbulous. What's the world coming to?


Because I'm not as irrational as you think, but you likely go into most threads thinking we disagree on everything. Fwiw, I agreed with a post of yours the other day re: Vick's play.
I think we share a similar position of him as a player. Just different as a human being.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (Rick @ Feb 12 2013, 07:16 AM) *
Who cares!!?? I'm sick of hearing this about him. I don't care about the talent he has, rather the talent he shows on the field. Vick has always been a guy who should be better than he performs, however, he's never performed up to his talent level...NEVER.

At what point do you finally admit he's never going to live up to his potential? I mean, he's played 10+ years. If he hasn't done it by now, he's never going to do it.

I honestly think nobody cares as much as you do. Chill out dude. And quit wit all the hate. Ok ok... your right. He's garbage. Feel better?
iggleslover49
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 11 2013, 05:54 PM) *
I agree with this and have been on record believing Kelly would be too intrigued by Vick's talents to let him go.

With that said, he's proven to be better when defenses haven't planned for him. He may even catch some people off-guard early in the season within the new system.

But defenses have always caught up to Vick, and he has never been able to adjust his game to compensate. Which is why he's a great athlete with unprecedented talent. But a mediocre QB.

Vick has been under immense pressure his whole career to make things happen do to his athletic ability. When you put that kinda weight on one guy ofcourse he won't succeed. I think Vick will be better under Kelly because Kelly will use the talent around Vick to make him better instead of the other way around.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Feb 12 2013, 12:41 PM) *
Vick has been under immense pressure his whole career to make things happen do to his athletic ability. When you put that kinda weight on one guy ofcourse he won't succeed. I think Vick will be better under Kelly because Kelly will use the talent around Vick to make him better instead of the other way around.


That's a bullshit excuse. Every high QB draft pick faces the same "weight." Great QB's overcome that. Vick hasn't.
Rick
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Feb 12 2013, 12:32 PM) *
I honestly think nobody cares as much as you do. Chill out dude. And quit wit all the hate. Ok ok... your right. He's garbage. Feel better?

My comments you quoted have nothing to do with hate. It has everything to do with reality...Vick has always had the potential to be a good QB but he's never realized it. At what point do you think people should finally admit it? After 20 years playing?
iggleslover49
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 12 2013, 12:50 PM) *
That's a bullshit excuse. Every high QB draft pick faces the same "weight." Great QB's overcome that. Vick hasn't.

I never said Vick was great. What I AM saying is Vick has never been in a ideal situation set up for him to succeed. He's never been in a system where the running game took the attention off him, until now, hopefully. Because he WAS the running game, defenses never had to key on the running back only Vick.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Feb 12 2013, 01:16 PM) *
I never said Vick was great. What I AM saying is Vick has never been in a ideal situation set up for him to succeed. He's never been in a system where the running game took the attention off him, until now, hopefully. Because he WAS the running game, defenses never had to key on the running back only Vick.


That's simply not true. Warwick Dunn rushed for 1400 yards in 2005. If Vick cared about football as much as he did his dog fighting ring, his team likely could have been better than 8-8. 2006 wasn't much different with Dunn and Norwood. 7-9 record.
It's no ones fault but Vick's that he gave away four of his prime seasons while spending time in prison and never developed as a QB.
Rick
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 12 2013, 01:40 PM) *
That's simply not true. Warwick Dunn rushed for 1400 yards in 2005. If Vick cared about football as much as he did his dog fighting ring, his team likely could have been better than 8-8. 2006 wasn't much different with Dunn and Norwood. 7-9 record.
It's no ones fault but Vick's that he gave away four of his prime seasons while spending time in prison and never developed as a QB.

Damnit! 3 times I'm agreeing with you now. People will start to talk....
Eyrie
DRock, Rick, mcnabbulous - great posts guys. Simple hard facts about Vick that are impossible to refute with anything other than blind emotion.

iggleslover49 - this would be a dull board if we all agreed, so keep being wrong please.
BirdsWinBaby
This topic is exactly why I listed all that other stuff in the other one for what Vick needs to win....any deficiency on a team is always listed by Vick fans as the reason he never won before. He had a good defense but not enough running, he had running game but no WRs, he a WRs and a good RB but no defense. Even a new Oline coach?? The excuses with this guy are endless

Now suddenly he has a new coach and system eh? The same thing was said about AR and the pass happy offense we ran back in 2010. Vick's mobility would make his throws oh so easy, Djax's deep threat and shady were gonna be unstoppable. For the first time in Vick career somebody was not gonna ask him to run every play blah, blah, blah

Sometimes you wonder if people even read what they write or remember what they wrote before. However to explain that you need look no further than Vick himself who is completely clueless from one comment to the next

This morning Vick said last year he was too concerned about getting hurt and it affected his play. Now he says he won't worry about that anymore and he expects to get hurt less and play better

Sadly....I think he was serious
iggleslover49
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Feb 12 2013, 02:49 PM) *
DRock, Rick, mcnabbulous - great posts guys. Simple hard facts about Vick that are impossible to refute with anything other than blind emotion.

iggleslover49 - this would be a dull board if we all agreed, so keep being wrong please.

Lol whatever dude! I'm saying how I feel if you disagree, good for you. All of you was thinking Vick was gonna get cut. All of you was talking about how terrible Vick was before 2010. All of you were wrong. So far THIS offseason I've been right in ALL my major predictions.
iggleslover49
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Feb 12 2013, 02:49 PM) *
DRock, Rick, mcnabbulous - great posts guys. Simple hard facts about Vick that are impossible to refute with anything other than blind emotion.

iggleslover49 - this would be a dull board if we all agreed, so keep being wrong please.

Lol whatever dude! I'm saying how I feel if you disagree, good for you. All of you was thinking Vick was gonna get cut. All of you was talking about how terrible Vick was before 2010. All of you were wrong. So far THIS offseason I've been right in ALL my major predictions, except the defensive coordinator.

Want facts? Vick is a multi year pro bowler. Vick has seen championship games in college AND in the NFL. Nick Foles does nothing, BUT lose both in College AND the NFL. Vick is not the long term answer. Niether is Foles.

I don't want you to agree with me. Continue to be everyone else's "YES man"
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Feb 12 2013, 10:03 PM) *
All of you was thinking Vick was gonna get cut. All of you were wrong.

I'm never wrong.
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Feb 1 2013, 06:26 PM) *
I'd be wary of thinking Kelly is somehow immune to the Vick curiosity. He is, of course, still on our roster. Maybe Chip is having those same dangerous visions.



BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Feb 12 2013, 10:03 PM) *
All of you was thinking Vick was gonna get cut. All of you was talking about how terrible Vick was before 2010. All of you were wrong. So far THIS offseason I've been right in ALL my major predictions, except the defensive coordinator.


we told you how terrible Vick was before 2010, and we also told you how terrible he was DURING 2010 when you were here with your chest puffed out bragging that you were right again

As far as you being right? Were you the guy who predicted in 2010 that the height of vick's Eagle career would be a regular season game vs the Giants, after which he would suck ass so bad that only 2yrs into a $100 contract he would lose his starting job to a mediocre rook and he would have to take a paycut just to keep from getting cut for Trent Edwards and Nick Foles?

(Aside from that being the opposite of what you said....)

Dude you are ****** Nostradamus!!! Take a bow

LOL
iggleslover49
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ Feb 13 2013, 08:56 AM) *
we told you how terrible Vick was before 2010, and we also told you how terrible he was DURING 2010 when you were here with your chest puffed out bragging that you were right again

As far as you being right? Were you the guy who predicted in 2010 that the height of vick's Eagle career would be a regular season game vs the Giants, after which he would suck ass so bad that only 2yrs into a $100 contract he would lose his starting job to a mediocre rook and he would have to take a paycut just to keep from getting cut for Trent Edwards and Nick Foles?

(Aside from that being the opposite of what you said....)

Dude you are ****** Nostradamus!!! Take a bow

LOL

You didn't have to be Nostradamus to know that Vick was betterthan Kolb in 2010. But I'm sure if he was alive he'd agree there. As far as this year, I'd be HIGHLY surprised if the birds go with Edwards over Vick. And I'm sure Nostradamus would be too.

LOL
Rick
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Feb 12 2013, 09:57 PM) *
Lol whatever dude! I'm saying how I feel if you disagree, good for you. All of you was thinking Vick was gonna get cut. All of you was talking about how terrible Vick was before 2010. All of you were wrong. So far THIS offseason I've been right in ALL my major predictions.

ALL of us weren't thinking he'd be cut. I was afraid of this scenario from the start.

Vick WAS bad before and AFTER 2010. So what's your point?
D Rock
Vick Stinks
Eyrie
QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Feb 13 2013, 03:03 AM) *
Lol whatever dude! I'm saying how I feel if you disagree, good for you. All of you was thinking Vick was gonna get cut. All of you was talking about how terrible Vick was before 2010. All of you were wrong. So far THIS offseason I've been right in ALL my major predictions, except the defensive coordinator.

Want facts? Vick is a multi year pro bowler. Vick has seen championship games in college AND in the NFL. Nick Foles does nothing, BUT lose both in College AND the NFL. Vick is not the long term answer. Niether is Foles.

I don't want you to agree with me. Continue to be everyone else's "YES man"

At least get it the right way round - they're my "Yes" men biggrin.gif As regards Vick and Foles, the hard evidence is that Vick is not the short or long term answer. The jury is out on Foles, although I'll let you agree with me that he may not make it.

QUOTE (D Rock @ Feb 13 2013, 06:28 PM) *
Vick Stinks

Only if he improves.
mcnabbulous
Not too many positives from the press...other than Jaws apparently. I get Chip's curiosity in having someone who is more suited to run his style of offense. Vick is already on the roster and acquiring another guy like that may not be possible.

QUOTE
Ray Didinger of Comcast SportsNet detailed the anti-Vick case to Glen Macnow on 94 WIP: "If you look at the film from last year ... I didn't see a great skill set anymore. I saw a 5-foot-10-1/2-inch, soon-to-be-33-year-old guy that can't run the way he used to, still doesn't read defenses very well, doesn't see the blitz coming, can't avoid hits the way he once did, and is certainly no more durable than he's ever been."


QUOTE
ESPN senior football writer Dan Graziano was also scathing:

"Vick has struggled to call the correct protections at the line of scrimmage when presented with that responsibility. He has consistently failed to make good decisions, pre-snap, with regard to audibles. He has never shown improvement at reading a defense, not even after all of the additional classroom work he promised everybody he was doing last summer. He has never shown improvement in making decisions on the run or when the play breaks down. He has demonstrated, outside of one breathtakingly brilliant 12-game stretch in 2010, an unacceptable propensity for turning the ball over."


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