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nephillymike
I was thinking about how many guys of this bunch of losers I would want wearing my team's jersey next year.

Off the top of my head:

QB - Foles
RB - McCoy, Brown
FB - nobody
TE - nobody
WR - maybe Maclin
OL - Peters, Kelce, Herramins, Mathis
K - Henry
P - nobody

DL - Cox,Thorton,Dixon, Graham (maybe Landri, anyone else, not Cole)
LB - Kendricks
S- maybe Anderson in backup role
CB - maybe Boykin as backup

13 keepers and 3 maybes The 1998 had many more than this bunch of bums
mcnabbulous
Didn't you just recently say that we had top-8 talent?
mcnabbulous
I'd keep Ryans, Avant and Celek. Fwiw.
VICKtory
I'd throw in Celek (hopefully as a 2), Cooper, and Ryans
TGryn
So many guys were getting beat one-on-one today, that's not a sign of a team ready to make a playoff run next year. The '98 team had some of the worst coaching we've seen in modern NFL history, whereas this team has had a lot of instances where the scheme has gotten the player in the right position, but he individually screwed up when the ball came his way. If anything, it looks like a bigger rebuild than '98 was.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 30 2012, 05:10 PM) *
Didn't you just recently say that we had top-8 talent?



I never let previous expressed opinions ruin a good 4-12 post season rant!!
Zero
Interesting hearing players talking about other players quitting. "Character" used to be a hallmark of Reid's personnel choices but it got dumped somewhere along the 14 year line. Lurie's got to find someone to bring back the pride in this team.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 30 2012, 09:30 PM) *
I never let previous expressed opinions ruin a good 4-12 post season rant!!


biggrin.gif
Eyrie
Here's my list. Some of the keepers are there only because you can't replace 40+ players in one year, and the bubble players are those that should be replaced but may not be for the same reason.

Key men - McCoy, Peters
Key men - Cox

Keep - Foles, Brown, Celek, Jackson, Cooper, Avant, Mathis, Herremans, Kelce, Henery
Keep - Cole, Graham, Curry, Jenkins, Ryans, Kendricks, Boykin, Anderson (STs), Dorenbos

Bubble - Edwards, Lewis, Havili, Harbor, Macklin, Johnson, Kelly, Reynolds
Bubble - Tapp, Hunt, Patterson, Landri, Thornton, Jordan, Rau, Rodgers-Cromartie, Marsh, Coleman, Allen, McBriar

Taxi - Vick, Bell, Dunlap, Scott
Taxi - Matthews, Chaney, Asomugha, Hughes, Sims

Ignoring fringe players, that's just three players that we can build around and another nineteen worth keeping. Twenty that we may not be able to jettison and nine that we have to get rid off. Pretty damning but the reasons are there in our 4-12 record.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 30 2012, 08:30 PM) *
I never let previous expressed opinions ruin a good 4-12 post season rant!!



and that is why we love you......lol
SpudDogg
Gotta keep Celek and Avant.

Still wish we would get a standout WR.
Reality Fan
now on to the good stuff.......

I am not as down on the talent as some here........in today's NFL there are way to many turn around stories.......did the Colts replace their entire team? Did the 49ers replace their entire team 2 years ago? This is a case of a few good players and a change in philosophy.

With the guys coming back from injury restoring the O line to functionality The holes are not so glaring. I see the need for safeties first and foremost followed by 1 or 2 corners. I think a new voice will restore some order to the D and the O is not in bad shape.

Now whether or not the pieces we need are available is the big question.

I lose the obvious:
Vick, Allen, Coleman, Lewis, Watkins, Nahmdi and Maclin(stats be damned in this case, watch him play when the pressure is on)

Beyond that I think the rest are workable although this does not account for the cancers in the locker room. I identify those and boot them also. There were numerous reports that some players were bad attitude guys and those can and should be identified and booted.

mcnabbulous
I've been critical of Maclin, but he's one of the few guys that seem like they've actually cared the past couple of weeks.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 31 2012, 12:08 PM) *
I've been critical of Maclin, but he's one of the few guys that seem like they've actually cared the past couple of weeks.


I understand that but again I point to the pressure issue......this has all been garbage time......when it counted he was a dud. Whether it was blocking or a catch or holding on to the ball. One moment etched in my mind was early this season when we were still in it and McCoy is running the ball and breaks into the secondary and moves to run off a block from Maclin which will spring him for 6 and Maclin stand there, makes no block and McCoy is tackled and gets up and yells at Maclin......That spoke volumes.
nephillymike
I thought I heard on Post Game yesterday that the Colts got rid of 40+ people from last year's team.

If that's the case, cut at least 40 of these bums.

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 31 2012, 01:31 PM) *
I thought I heard on Post Game yesterday that the Colts got rid of 40+ people from last year's team.

If that's the case, cut at least 40 of these bums.

Yeah, the Colts were an awful example for RF to use.
Eyrie
I'm willing to see Macklin go, but only if we can upgrade him. If not, let's see if he is mentally stronger when playing for his next contract here or elsewhere.

Given our needs in the secondary and at T, I don't see his replacement coming from the draft this year. So are there any top notch FAs we can use some of our large cap room on?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 31 2012, 12:54 PM) *
Yeah, the Colts were an awful example for RF to use.


as usual you open your mouth before checking your facts......

for reference....and remember....the biggest name on the list of departures did not play in 2011.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Indianapolis_Colts_season

any bad team will have departures in significant numbers as will good teams...it is called the draft....when you add draft picks someone has to go....

Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 31 2012, 12:31 PM) *
I thought I heard on Post Game yesterday that the Colts got rid of 40+ people from last year's team.

If that's the case, cut at least 40 of these bums.



now Mikey...I know you are smarter than this........40? and you think that is smart enough to mention knowing you have a 53 man roster?

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Dec 31 2012, 04:15 PM) *
now Mikey...I know you are smarter than this........40? and you think that is smart enough to mention knowing you have a 53 man roster?


I don't know how the season ended, but at the start, only 21 players from the 2011 team were on the roster.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Dec 31 2012, 04:13 PM) *
as usual you open your mouth before checking your facts......

for reference....and remember....the biggest name on the list of departures did not play in 2011.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Indianapolis_Colts_season

any bad team will have departures in significant numbers as will good teams...it is called the draft....when you add draft picks someone has to go....

You sarcastically stated that the Colts didn't replace their entire team. No...just 2/3 of the roster. So your example was awful. I wouldn't expect you to admit being wrong though.
nephillymike
They just said it again today. R. Frank gave the number of 42 different players on the Colts. Neither of the two others disagreed.

I heard it right.

Whether or not is was accurate is a different story.

How many new players do you say the Colts had this year that weren't on last year's team?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 31 2012, 05:47 PM) *
You sarcastically stated that the Colts didn't replace their entire team. No...just 2/3 of the roster. So your example was awful. I wouldn't expect you to admit being wrong though.



and here is where we differ.....I was wrong, never had a problem admitting it before and don't now...I had no idea that they had that much turnover. Congrats to Grigson.

and yet another example of how short the rebuilding process or turnaround is in the NFL.....
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 31 2012, 07:11 PM) *
They just said it again today. R. Frank gave the number of 42 different players on the Colts. Neither of the two others disagreed.

I heard it right.

Whether or not is was accurate is a different story.

How many new players do you say the Colts had this year that weren't on last year's team?


I did not hear the story, I saw the WIki story of the players gone and those added but Bleacher Report had the article that referenced only 21 players on this roster from last year.

My guess is that the 42 number includes guys signed for a few weeks before getting released.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Dec 31 2012, 10:15 PM) *
and here is where we differ.....I was wrong, never had a problem admitting it before and don't now...I had no idea that they had that much turnover. Congrats to Grigson.

and yet another example of how short the rebuilding process or turnaround is in the NFL.....


I think we're on the same page. Their turnover is an anomaly. The big piece is the QB. Getting Luck put their turnaround on the fast track.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 31 2012, 10:01 PM) *
I think we're on the same page. Their turnover is an anomaly. The big piece is the QB. Getting Luck put their turnaround on the fast track.


you know...I thought that also but then I looked at his numbers.......they are not that impressive....he threw the ball a ton...627 attempts and had a sub 55% completion rate and 23 TDs vs 18 picks. He threw for 4300 yards but again, he threw the ball 627 times.......when you look at their numbers I have no idea how they finished where they did.....their team numbers are nothing to write home about.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 1 2013, 03:25 AM) *
you know...I thought that also but then I looked at his numbers.......they are not that impressive....he threw the ball a ton...627 attempts and had a sub 55% completion rate and 23 TDs vs 18 picks. He threw for 4300 yards but again, he threw the ball 627 times.......when you look at their numbers I have no idea how they finished where they did.....their team numbers are nothing to write home about.


His passing numbers were just about average, but given the load he was carrying, it's pretty reasonable to understand. He also had some decent contributions on the ground.
I think a lot of their team success had to do with playing, what appears to be, a relatively weak schedule.
Luck is going to be great. In the limited action I saw this year, he seemed to always have the ability to come up with the big throw.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jan 1 2013, 11:51 AM) *
His passing numbers were just about average, but given the load he was carrying, it's pretty reasonable to understand. He also had some decent contributions on the ground.
I think a lot of their team success had to do with playing, what appears to be, a relatively weak schedule.
Luck is going to be great. In the limited action I saw this year, he seemed to always have the ability to come up with the big throw.


I was wondering about their schedule....I didn't look at it but I assumed it was weak but they did beat the Pack and the Texans that I recall so those are 2 nice wins. I can't get past his 54% completion rate. I thought he was supposed to be a sniper but a lack of talent can do that I guess. That number is certainly below average in todays NFL...it places him 31 out of the top 32 QBs. The bottm line though is leading the team to an 11-5 record so I do have to give him credit there.
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jan 1 2013, 12:21 PM) *
I was wondering about their schedule....I didn't look at it but I assumed it was weak but they did beat the Pack and the Texans that I recall so those are 2 nice wins. I can't get past his 54% completion rate. I thought he was supposed to be a sniper but a lack of talent can do that I guess. That number is certainly below average in todays NFL...it places him 31 out of the top 32 QBs. The bottm line though is leading the team to an 11-5 record so I do have to give him credit there.

It helps when he's got a guy named Reggie Wayne to throw to. With that said, you still have to win and he certainly gets credit for helping them out there. I was surprised to see his completion percentage so low, considering his claim to accuracy.
mcnabbulous
Manning had a similar completion % his rookie year. The game has changed since then (with illegal contact rules) so it's not completely comparable, but Manning also had more talent. Reggie Wayne is still a very good receiver, but he's also 34.

I think you'll see Luck much closer to 60% next year and he'll probably be in the 65-70 range for most of his career.
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