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HOUSEoPAIN
We are the worst team in the NFC - Detroit wins the tiebreaker over us, and of course they eabt us this year anyway.

Even as the pessimist I am, I was expecting a run-of-the-mill 9-7 or 10-6 effort this year, before a one-and-done.

What a nightmare.
ClydeSide
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 19 2012, 10:30 AM) *
We are the worst team in the NFC - Detroit wins the tiebreaker over us, and of course they eabt us this year anyway.

Even as the pessimist I am, I was expecting a run-of-the-mill 9-7 or 10-6 effort this year, before a one-and-done.

What a nightmare.


We needed a total blowup to get rid of the Fatman. Either we take our medicine now, or wait for a heart attack which might take another 14 years. rolleyes.gif
mcnabbulous
If we had gone into the season with this second string offense that we are currently running out there, would anyone have expected different results?


Every post I read about the draft is people clamoring for Luke Joekel. "You can't win without a solid OL." We have had our two most important guys injured for nearly the entire season. We have had 4 of 5 starts out.


Everyone agrees that Vick is garbage. He was a starter this year. We had no business being good.


Don't confuse your own inaccurate expectations for something else. This was a bad team to start the season. With injuries, they have become terrible.
nephillymike
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 19 2012, 11:15 AM) *
If we had gone into the season with this second string offense that we are currently running out there, would anyone have expected different results?


Every post I read about the draft is people clamoring for Luke Joekel. "You can't win without a solid OL." We have had our two most important guys injured for nearly the entire season. We have had 4 of 5 starts out.


Everyone agrees that Vick is garbage. He was a starter this year. We had no business being good.


Don't confuse your own inaccurate expectations for something else. This was a bad team to start the season. With injuries, they have become terrible.



This was a top eight NFL team in talent.

Injuries, bad coaching, bad decisions, lack of motivation, poor bench depth, and sub par performances made it a horrible year.
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 20 2012, 12:34 AM) *
This was a top eight NFL team in talent.

Injuries, bad coaching, bad decisions, lack of motivation, poor bench depth, and sub par performances made it a horrible year.



we had bad coaching, injuries, etc... yes

the "talent" on this team was still vastly overstated/overhyped
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Dec 19 2012, 11:34 PM) *
This was a top eight NFL team in talent.

Injuries, bad coaching, bad decisions, lack of motivation, poor bench depth, and sub par performances made it a horrible year.

I agree the Eagles have a lot more talent than some think and I believe that talent was used poorly ... coaching. Most of us have bitched endlessly about Reid's offense and how he stubbornly forces players into a system rather than adjusting to the talent. Look at the insane number of turnovers the team has given up and the almost complete absence of turnovers they've forced. The loss of Peters was huge, the ego of Vick unwarranted and the death of Garrett devastating.

Reid lost his Heggamin and believed his genius was growing like a walrus mustache. His system was flawed to begin with but the combination of key injuries and Reid's ineffective self analysis, both personally and from a coaching perspective doomed this team.

I believe the Eagles will be an attractive team for a HC looking for a job. Sure, there are holes to fill but there is a lot to work with and a disciplined and creative coach can probably turn the team around next year.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Zero @ Dec 20 2012, 08:15 AM) *
I believe the Eagles will be an attractive team for a HC looking for a job. Sure, there are holes to fill but there is a lot to work with and a disciplined and creative coach can probably turn the team around next year.


It's so easy to say we just weren't that good to begin with - let's look at all of our predictions pre-season. How many people here said we would win the Super Bowl? How many said 12-4, 11-5, 10-6? Then we're 4-10 and all of a sudden every fan is a moron? Sorry, I'm not buying it. The worst prediction I heard from any Eagles fan or non-Eagles fan was 8-8.

This team had the talent to excel, and going forward I think we can be turned into a contender with the right coaching and scheme. As in next year - look at how the defense has played since getting rid of the wide-gaping-hole-9. Jim Harbaugh turned SF from a joke to a legit contender in one year, and now I would pick them as favorites to win it all. - that is what a great coach and a great scheme can do.
mcnabbulous
Even if the worst prediction was 8-8, that was well before we rolled out a second string offense. Those predictions were made with the assumption that Vick would progress with a full offseason. What we witnessed was Vick clearly being mediocre. Then lose 3 more OL, not including Peters (who is probably our best player, period) and this offense was awful.

How anyone can still mistake this team, especially without Peters, as a top-8 in talent team, is beyond me. I can't think of one unit on our team that is top-8. Maybe Dline. Maybe.
Rick
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 20 2012, 01:51 PM) *
Even if the worst prediction was 8-8, that was well before we rolled out a second string offense. Those predictions were made with the assumption that Vick would progress with a full offseason. What we witnessed was Vick clearly being mediocre. Then lose 3 more OL, not including Peters (who is probably our best player, period) and this offense was awful.

How anyone can still mistake this team, especially without Peters, as a top-8 in talent team, is beyond me. I can't think of one unit on our team that is top-8. Maybe Dline. Maybe.

People keep making excuses about this being a 2nd string offense, etc. However, the offense (for the most part) has been good enough to move the ball but keeps turning the ball over. Even 2nd string offenses don't turn the ball over at the rate this team has turned it over. And look at who was turning the ball over, most of them ARE 1st string offensive players.

The defense was HORRID this season, which cost a few games (in the end). Win a few more games that they gave up leads (late) in pick up another win or two and they're in the playoffs. Not saying they'd do much but sure beats what we're watching now.

Would I say they have the talent to go far in the playoffs and win a SB? Nope--and I never said they were that good. However, let's be honest, they DO have more talent than you--and many others--give them credit for. They were good enough to get into the playoffs and see what happens (before the injuries). The injuries still left them good enough to have made the playoffs in a VERY weak NFC East this season but they didn't take advantage of that.

This offense is good enough to move the ball against most of the teams in the NFL today. Not really good enough to get it done against the top defenses but there are only a few top defenses each year (obviously). So it's not like this offense SUCKED other than when you look at the turnovers and the 1st stingers were turning the ball over just as much as anyone else.
mcnabbulous
Moving the ball is the easy part these days. In the era of illegal contact.

Can you honestly name a unit where we would rank amongst the best in football? I can't.

Our defense seems adequate now that we've dropped the wide 9. With that said, we are rather mediocre across the board. Add in a bunch of injuries and we become bad.
Rick
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 20 2012, 07:56 PM) *
Moving the ball is the easy part these days. In the era of illegal contact.

Can you honestly name a unit where we would rank amongst the best in football? I can't.

Our defense seems adequate now that we've dropped the wide 9. With that said, we are rather mediocre across the board. Add in a bunch of injuries and we become bad.

I never said we were near the best in anything. All I've said is this team has more talent than you give them credit for. They need a LOT of work to get to where we want them to be but they aren't garbage.

I've just grown tired of hearing the excuse about the injuries for the offense. Illegal contact didn't allow them to move the ball this season, in fact, we didn't get a lot of calls. The offense isn't what I'd call good by any stretch of the imagination but they're far from the worst in the league (even with 2nd stringers playing).

And, in case you've missed something, mediocre makes the playoffs these days. My whole point is this team--as it sits right now--isn't far from making the playoffs with the way the league--and the NFC East specifically--is set up at the moment. Again, they aren't really good enough to go far but they're not the garbage you seem to think they are.

Bring in a few people, get a few others health, get a new coaching staff and you're in the playoffs. Fix a few other things and you're back to being a very good team. A long ways to go but not nearly as long as you seem to think.
mcnabbulous
What is all this talent you speak of?

Illegal contact doesn't mean just getting calls. It simply opened up the game, which is why moving the ball between the 20's is no longer a great challenge against most defenses.
Rick
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 20 2012, 08:17 PM) *
What is all this talent you speak of?

Illegal contact doesn't mean just getting calls. It simply opened up the game, which is why moving the ball between the 20's is no longer a great challenge against most defenses.

:::sigh::: As usual, it's like talking to a wall with you....
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 21 2012, 09:26 AM) *
:::sigh::: As usual, it's like talking to a wall with you....


Nice response. Everyone talks about all the "talent" on the Eagles roster. I can look at any bad team in football and find just as much. That's the point. We have a handful of good players. Our talent is vastly overrated.
And as I pointed out several times, collectively, none of our units rank among the best in football.
This season was hyped based on the idea that Vick would take a step forward with the full offseason. He didn't.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 21 2012, 09:39 AM) *
And as I pointed out several times, collectively, none of our units rank among the best in football.

Brown and Shady make a nice combination. They aren't the best in the league, but that doesn't make them good and talented. Our D-Line, while certainly not the best, is good.

I believe you are the only one requiring that in order to be good or talented the various units need to be among the best in the league, I would contend that with better coaching you will see (what appears to be) a much more talented squad.

mcnabbulous
You named RB and DL. I can name just as many groups that are amongst the worst in football (OL and Safety).

My point is that our talent is vastly overrated. Nothing more. Mikey made the point that we have top-8 talent in football. I think we, as fans, overrate the talent on our team. I can find just as many big time talents on KC that I can in Philly.

So if you combine marginal talent across the board with mediocre QB play and injuries, you have the 2012 Eagles.

I don't think we are that far off. The nature of the NFL allows teams to turn it around relatively quickly. A few key players, specifically a QB, and we are right back in contention. We just aren't as good as everyone is implying.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 21 2012, 10:52 AM) *
We just aren't as good as everyone is implying.

I don't think anybody is confusing us with a dominant SB calibre team, or even close. With consideration to the injuries and coaching gaffes, We shouldn't be as bad as we appear to be.

So there you have it; we aren't as good as we think, nor as bad as we appear.
Rick
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 21 2012, 09:39 AM) *
Nice response. Everyone talks about all the "talent" on the Eagles roster. I can look at any bad team in football and find just as much. That's the point. We have a handful of good players. Our talent is vastly overrated.
And as I pointed out several times, collectively, none of our units rank among the best in football.
This season was hyped based on the idea that Vick would take a step forward with the full offseason. He didn't.

Nice response is right. My response was that because you OBVIOUSLY either hadn't read what I posted regarding this or just don't understand what I'm saying. I NEVER said we're chock full of TONS of AWESOME talent. I said we have more talent than people like you give them credit for but they have a long way to go before being SB contenders.

I guess that's just too hard to understand?
Rick
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 21 2012, 10:56 AM) *
I don't think anybody is confusing us with a dominant SB calibre team, or even close. With consideration to the injuries and coaching gaffes, We shouldn't be as bad as we appear to be.

So there you have it; we aren't as good as we think, nor as bad as we appear.

Thank you. At least someone understands what I'm saying!
mcnabbulous
Every team in the NFL has talent. The important thing is having talent in the right places, not having gaping holes (which we have), and having depth to manage injuries.

We are a poorly built team. It's no surprise, regardless of what you may have thought preseason, that we are so bad.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 21 2012, 12:31 PM) *
Every team in the NFL has talent. The important thing is having ......

The important thing is to have the right coaches in place to properly utilize the "talent" acquired. The HC is responsible for this, and it's the biggest reason why we look as bad we do this season.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 21 2012, 12:54 PM) *
The important thing is to have the right coaches in place to properly utilize the "talent" acquired. The HC is responsible for this, and it's the biggest reason why we look as bad we do this season.


So you think every team, regardless of talent, could be good every year. Assuming the right coach was in place? Got it. It will come as no surprise, but I disagree with you.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 21 2012, 01:28 PM) *
So you think every team, regardless of talent, could be good every year. Assuming the right coach was in place? Got it. It will come as no surprise, but I disagree with you.

No. I think this team, with it's designated level of talent SHOULD be better. I feel that if our coaching and game preparedness was up to snuff, we would be in the thick of things for another division title. Instead we are in the basement, fresh off the heels of an 8 game losing streak in which our starting QB,WR, TE, RB were injured and our DC (a converted OL coach) and DL coach were fired.

Sorry McNabbulous, the wheels fell off and your hero was the driver. It's obviously not entirely his fault, but he lost his way and then he lost the team.
Keenan24
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 21 2012, 02:38 PM) *
I feel that if our coaching and game preparedness was up to snuff, we would be in the thick of things for another division title.


Heh
7-7 or 8-6 would put us in the thick of things this season....i think everyone here would agree that isn't good enough anymore.



smile.gif
Phits
QUOTE (Keenan24 @ Dec 21 2012, 02:49 PM) *
Heh
7-7 or 8-6 would put us in the thick of things this season....i think everyone here would agree that isn't good enough anymore.

Agreed, it wouldn't be enough with the current regime. However, you can't deny that one last stab at the post season would have been a better send-off (for AR) than what has actually transpired.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 21 2012, 02:38 PM) *
No. I think this team, with it's designated level of talent SHOULD be better. I feel that if our coaching and game preparedness was up to snuff, we would be in the thick of things for another division title. Instead we are in the basement, fresh off the heels of an 8 game losing streak in which our starting QB,WR, TE, RB were injured and our DC (a converted OL coach) and DL coach were fired.

Sorry McNabbulous, the wheels fell off and your hero was the driver. It's obviously not entirely his fault, but he lost his way and then he lost the team.


I won't disagree the wheels fell off, but they were much looser than people want to admit. That is largely Reid's fault. Our DC was actually fine. Reid's big mistake, it turns out, was hiring the DL coach we all once praised. The other mistake was hitching his wagon to Vick, although Kolb clearly wasn't the right card to play.
If we find a QB, which may be Foles...although I'm not sold, we can turn it around quickly. If we don't, expect futility for quite some time.
Ultimately, Reid's career was hinged to Donovan, which is basically how it works these days. All of the coaches we think are great just happen to have great QB's. Reid was a very good coach when Donovan was a very good QB. He was a good coach when Donnie's skills subsided. We've seen how things worked with Vick.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 21 2012, 09:50 PM) *
All of the coaches we think are great just happen to have great QB's


They win with 'em - 14 years of our 'great QB coach' and we don't have a ring. It's really time to give up on this. Reid's the guy who drafts and puts players on the field.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 22 2012, 02:38 AM) *
They win with 'em - 14 years of our 'great QB coach' and we don't have a ring. It's really time to give up on this. Reid's the guy who drafts and puts players on the field.


With the exception of Belichick falling ass backwards into Brady, most coaches that have won SB's recently didn't draft their QB. Coaches shouldn't be drafting anyone. We went as far as our very good QB could take us. That tends to be how it goes.
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