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Rick
So, unfortunately, I'm too much of a fan to NOT watch the Eagles play so I watched it instead of my usual Sunday night of Dexter, Boardwalk Empire and Homeland. I should have stuck with my normal plan...

But seriously, can't say anything about this defense sucking that hasn't been said already. They're just plain horrible.

Offensive line (overall) played better than it has. I almost thought someone had put another player in King Dunlap's jersey since he actually threw a block (a block!) on a TD play. Then, sadly, they brought back the old Dunlap where he couldn't block my 6 year old son... sad.gif

Why the hell is Reid playing for a FG at the end of the half??? Ok, he gave Foles a chance to march the team down the field with less than a minute left. He does this. Gets them in position with about 20 seconds left to either take a couple of shots into the endzone or (at least) get them closer for an easier FG. What does he do? Two runs in a row. I like to see us run more (like last night) but not in that situation.

They're either looking at Foles to see if he has what it takes or he's showing others what he's got to trade him. Either way, let him try and finish it. The season is long gone so who cares if he screws it up at that point?

I really just don't understand the decisions Reid is making this year more than any other.

Brown...what can I say about him? How on Earth can he, "not have enough experience," as they keep saying, to know he has to protect the football in the NFL or ANY level of football!!?? Do they not teach this from the pee wee level on? Did they not sit him down after last week and explain to him how it works????

I am constantly amazed (this season) at how little this team cares about protecting the ball. This absolutely starts at the coaching level and works its way down. If, by this time in this season, you have players who don't protect the ball like it's their life then I blame the coaching staff. Why were they NOT getting on this kid last night? Stop with the, "No worries, you'll get them next time." Get on his ass and in his face and let him know this crap just isn't good enough.

The only bright spot was Foles looked quite good. Still a little rookie left in him but I liked what i saw from him overall. He's looking very confident and can throw some nice balls. I'd love to see him with a real offensive line and a team who protects the ball.
CT_Eagle
I too went through the paces of watching last night's game. A few quick thoughts.

I thought Foles looked pretty damn good. Nice job by a rookie QB. That was the type of performance a rookie can build on. I am not saying Foles has arrived but last night was encouraging.

Brown could end up being a Pro Bowl RB IF he can learn to secure the ball. I like the change of pace he provides from McCoy. Having both of them in the backfield at the same time would provide a lot possibilities when it comes to not only the running game but also setting upeffective play action passes.

Cooper had a nice game as well. He will never be a 1 or 2 WR but every team needs a player like Cooper to make plays when the primary receviers are shut down.

As for the defense, Graham had a great game in the first half but disappeared in the second. Ryans also had some big plays. The rest of the defense really was a no show last night as evidenced by the 31 points they gave up.

ClydeSide
Agree on everything--but Ryans can't get back in coverage--that's a problem.

They can coach Brown to hang on to the ball. I would have him carry the damn ball around with him everyday of the week--and keep it tucked away. I'd have players try to punch it out of his hand in the hallways, the parking lot and the practice field. I would pound it into his head.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (ClydeSide @ Dec 3 2012, 01:32 PM) *
Agree on everything--but Ryans can't get back in coverage--that's a problem.

They can coach Brown to hang on to the ball. I would have him carry the damn ball around with him everyday of the week--and keep it tucked away. I'd have players try to punch it out of his hand in the hallways, the parking lot and the practice field. I would pound it into his head.


The one thing that should help Ryans is when the DL gets better. Then he will not have to focus on run support as much. He definitely bit hard, as Collinsworth pointed out last night, on the play action. For most of this season he has done a good job in coverage when the TE or slot WR runs routes parrallel to the line of scrimmage. Those slants have been another story.

I just hope it does not take Brown as long as Tiki Barber. Barber eventually cut down on his fumbles but it took more than half of his career if I remember correctly.
Rick
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 3 2012, 08:09 AM) *
Brown could end up being a Pro Bowl RB IF he can learn to secure the ball. I like the change of pace he provides from McCoy. Having both of them in the backfield at the same time would provide a lot possibilities when it comes to not only the running game but also setting upeffective play action passes.

I agree 100% on this. I love how he explodes through the hole. McCoy (this season) has been dancing too much in the hole and making too many moves.

QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Dec 3 2012, 08:09 AM) *
Cooper had a nice game as well. He will never be a 1 or 2 WR but every team needs a player like Cooper to make plays when the primary receviers are shut down.

I have always liked Cooper. I love how he plays hard ALL of the time. I love how he attacks the ball when it's thrown towards him. He is the kind of guy you need on the team. The kind of guy who can spark an offense with a couple of nice plays.
Rick
QUOTE (ClydeSide @ Dec 3 2012, 08:32 AM) *
Agree on everything--but Ryans can't get back in coverage--that's a problem.

They can coach Brown to hang on to the ball. I would have him carry the damn ball around with him everyday of the week--and keep it tucked away. I'd have players try to punch it out of his hand in the hallways, the parking lot and the practice field. I would pound it into his head.

I just can't understand why, at this level, the guy carries the ball like this. I REALLY can't understand why the coaching staff didn't pull him aside after last week and do something like this or just plain make it clear he has to carry the ball with a little more care.

I just don't understand it....
ClydeSide
QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 3 2012, 08:40 AM) *
I just can't understand why, at this level, the guy carries the ball like this. I REALLY can't understand why the coaching staff didn't pull him aside after last week and do something like this or just plain make it clear he has to carry the ball with a little more care.

I just don't understand it....


Trying to change instinct.
Dreagon
QUOTE (ClydeSide @ Dec 3 2012, 07:53 AM) *
Trying to change instinct.


He's quick and elusive, and those type of runners do seem to take longer to convince when it comes to protecting the ball. I think it might be they are more prone to swinging that arm as a counterbalance to help them make sudden shifts of direction.
Rick
Instinct or not, why are they not correcting it? I'm sorry but, if you tell me to change how I'm doing my job after years of doing it incorrectly--and you're paying me--I listen and change. He doesn't even look like he's trying to carry the ball more carefully which makes me think the coaching staff just isn't getting on him about it. My impression--after seeing the guys go up to him after the fumble last night--including the fat man--was they're giving him the old, "it's ok, you'll get them next time," pep talk. Screw that. It's NOT ok. Occasionally, it's ok but he's fumbled THREE times in TWO games!!!! That's just not ok!!!!
Rick
Instinct or not, why are they not correcting it? I'm sorry but, if you tell me to change how I'm doing my job after years of doing it incorrectly--and you're paying me--I listen and change. He doesn't even look like he's trying to carry the ball more carefully which makes me think the coaching staff just isn't getting on him about it. My impression--after seeing the guys go up to him after the fumble last night--including the fat man--was they're giving him the old, "it's ok, you'll get them next time," pep talk. Screw that. It's NOT ok. Occasionally, it's ok but he's fumbled THREE times in TWO games!!!! That's just not ok!!!!
ClydeSide
QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 3 2012, 09:50 AM) *
Instinct or not, why are they not correcting it? I'm sorry but, if you tell me to change how I'm doing my job after years of doing it incorrectly--and you're paying me--I listen and change. He doesn't even look like he's trying to carry the ball more carefully which makes me think the coaching staff just isn't getting on him about it. My impression--after seeing the guys go up to him after the fumble last night--including the fat man--was they're giving him the old, "it's ok, you'll get them next time," pep talk. Screw that. It's NOT ok. Occasionally, it's ok but he's fumbled THREE times in TWO games!!!! That's just not ok!!!!


I covered this above:

"I would have him carry the damn ball around with him everyday of the week--and keep it tucked away. I'd have players try to punch it out of his hand in the hallways, the parking lot and the practice field. I would pound it into his head. "

Rick
QUOTE (ClydeSide @ Dec 3 2012, 10:16 AM) *
I covered this above:

"I would have him carry the damn ball around with him everyday of the week--and keep it tucked away. I'd have players try to punch it out of his hand in the hallways, the parking lot and the practice field. I would pound it into his head. "

I agree and that's what I've been saying all week. I just don't get the impression this staff is doing anything like that. Heck, I'm not even sure they sat him down and talked to him about it with the way he was carrying the ball last night.

This kid could be REALLY good--especially with Shady back--but come on already. Hold onto the damn ball!!!!
Eyrie
QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 3 2012, 03:18 PM) *
I agree and that's what I've been saying all week. I just don't get the impression this staff is doing anything like that. Heck, I'm not even sure they sat him down and talked to him about it with the way he was carrying the ball last night.

This kid could be REALLY good--especially with Shady back--but come on already. Hold onto the damn ball!!!!

Brown hardly played at college level, so this is the first time he's had high quality opponents. He looked devasted at the end of the game, so combine that with decent coaching and he can learn. Two games is too short a time span for him to adjust his technique but we should see improvement by the end of the year.

Even if we don't, he has enough talent that I'd keep him for 2013 to give him an offseason to improve. His running is one of the few bright spots for this season.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 3 2012, 07:12 AM) *
Why the hell is Reid playing for a FG at the end of the half??? Ok, he gave Foles a chance to march the team down the field with less than a minute left. He does this. Gets them in position with about 20 seconds left to either take a couple of shots into the endzone or (at least) get them closer for an easier FG. What does he do? Two runs in a row. I like to see us run more (like last night) but not in that situation.

Oh, Jesus Christ. We got the ball at our own 17 with 45 seconds in the half and put points on the board...

And you're bitching.
Bocadelphia Eagles John
I agree with Dreagon about Brown.

As I watched I felt his speed and elusiveness kind of depended on his arm movements.

And just because that's what he showed , it does not mean coaches have not attempted to teach him otherwise. We don't know whether Brown is not taking to the coaching, or, hasn't been coached. Jury's still out on that one.

But 3 fumbles in 2 games ? Not good .. no matter how exciting or productive he is to watch.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 3 2012, 09:50 AM) *
Occasionally, it's ok but he's fumbled THREE times in TWO games!!!! That's just not ok!!!!

He's a rookie. It's why we weren't seeing more of him earlier in the season. It's the product of having 3 carries in the past 3 years.

Tiki Barber had mad fumbling problems for most of his career. Ultimately, it was able to be resolved.

Brown probably has a million things running through his mind every time he is in the huddle. He'll fix it, but it's the reason it's tough to count on 7th round rookies.
Rick
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Dec 3 2012, 10:52 AM) *
Brown hardly played at college level, so this is the first time he's had high quality opponents. He looked devasted at the end of the game, so combine that with decent coaching and he can learn. Two games is too short a time span for him to adjust his technique but we should see improvement by the end of the year.

Even if we don't, he has enough talent that I'd keep him for 2013 to give him an offseason to improve. His running is one of the few bright spots for this season.

My point is why should it matter how many games he played in college? They DO teach you to hold onto the ball from the time you start playing. Maybe he doesn't know the super secret special way of holding the ball at the pro leve but he should know enough (and have been told by the coaches 3/4 of the way through the season) to hold the ball better than he does.
Rick
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 3 2012, 11:00 AM) *
Oh, Jesus Christ. We got the ball at our own 17 with 45 seconds in the half and put points on the board...

And you're bitching.

Yes I am bitching. It doesn't matter where he started. He got them to where they could take shots at the endzone and Reid throttled back. Made NO sense at all. If you're trying to learn what this kid is made up of, let him play. Not like this game was going to decide our fate for the rest of the seaon.

As usual, you make excuses for this ridiculous coaching staff.
Rick
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 3 2012, 11:11 AM) *
He's a rookie. It's why we weren't seeing more of him earlier in the season. It's the product of having 3 carries in the past 3 years.

Tiki Barber had mad fumbling problems for most of his career. Ultimately, it was able to be resolved.

Brown probably has a million things running through his mind every time he is in the huddle. He'll fix it, but it's the reason it's tough to count on 7th round rookies.

You're right but it's not the first time he's ever played football and I'm pretty sure he understands the object of his position--carry the ball for as many yards as you can and don't drop it (along with some blocking and other things).

I'm sick of everyone making excuses for this kid. He's a great runner but he needs to hold onto the ball....PERIOD. I hope he gets it worked out, I REALLY do but, if he didn't learn after his first game fumbling the ball 2 times I'm a bit worried.

He's paid to carry the ball and not drop it. You'd think he'd take that a little more seriously. I know I would.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 3 2012, 02:13 PM) *
You're right but it's not the first time he's ever played football and I'm pretty sure he understands the object of his position--carry the ball for as many yards as you can and don't drop it (along with some blocking and other things).

I'm sick of everyone making excuses for this kid. He's a great runner but he needs to hold onto the ball....PERIOD. I hope he gets it worked out, I REALLY do but, if he didn't learn after his first game fumbling the ball 2 times I'm a bit worried.

He's paid to carry the ball and not drop it. You'd think he'd take that a little more seriously. I know I would.

No, it's not the first time he's played football. Just the first time he's played football in 3 years. The first time he's played against the best of the best. The first time he's played against guys that are big enough to tackle him and fast enough to keep up with him. The first time he's played against guys that spend all day at practice focusing on stripping the ball.

Football has never been hard for this kid. Now he's playing against people at his own level, and certain things that he previously took for granted are a bit more difficult.

Rick
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 3 2012, 02:20 PM) *
No, it's not the first time he's played football. Just the first time he's played football in 3 years. The first time he's played against the best of the best. The first time he's played against guys that are big enough to tackle him and fast enough to keep up with him. The first time he's played against guys that spend all day at practice focusing on stripping the ball.

Football has never been hard for this kid. Now he's playing against people at his own level, and certain things that he previously took for granted are a bit more difficult.

Oh well then, I guess the game has changed in the 3 years since he last played so it's ok for him to not give a damn about protecting the ball...

As far as playing against the better people, I get that but, again, why the excuse??? He doesn't know he needs to protect the ball regardless of how good/bad the competition is? If not, then he's had horrible coaching. If the Eagles coaches haven't impressed upon this kid how important it is then they're worse than I thought.

But really, he's watched 3/4 of the season where the team has played like this and nothing has sunk in? He fumbles the ball twice last week and he still doesn't think it's important enough to work on?

Sorry, no excuses. I'm not saying cut the guy or anything but they need to get up in his grill and explain to him why this just isn't good enough.

It's ridiculous.
mcnabbulous
It's instincts. His natural instincts based on years of playing the game against inferior competition is to carry the ball recklessly, because the threat of being tackled and stripped was insignificant.

Now he's playing better competition, but his natural athletic instincts are the same. Assuming it can be corrected in one week or even one season, is naive. Obviously it's a problem, which is likely why we haven't seen much of him until now. Hopefully a full off-season of specifically addressing that issue will help. This year has been naturally focused on getting him into the system.
Rick
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Dec 3 2012, 07:40 PM) *
It's instincts. His natural instincts based on years of playing the game against inferior competition is to carry the ball recklessly, because the threat of being tackled and stripped was insignificant.

Now he's playing better competition, but his natural athletic instincts are the same. Assuming it can be corrected in one week or even one season, is naive. Obviously it's a problem, which is likely why we haven't seen much of him until now. Hopefully a full off-season of specifically addressing that issue will help. This year has been naturally focused on getting him into the system.

I agree with you on it's his habit but still, I find it hard to believe NOBODY has mentioned this to him before now. It is something which is drummed into your head from pee wee football on--hold on to the football--so it is nothing new to him.

He also did play in college a bit--for big name Div I schools. No, not NFL competition but still very good. Gotta believe they mentioned it to him a time or two there as well.

I really hope they work on this and get it straightened out because he can be very good.
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