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HobbEs
Go get him Howie!
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Nov 30 2012, 12:52 PM) *
Go get him Howie!

You really think we should hire a coach to be on our staff before we hire a head coach? We saw how that worked out with the defensive coordinator.
ClydeSide
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Nov 30 2012, 12:52 PM) *
Go get him Howie!


As d-coordinator. We need an offensive brain as head coach. AND ONE WITH HEAD COACHING experence. Even if that is at the college level. No more QB coaches with 3-ring binders. I want a head coach that has actually stood on the sidelines and MANAGED a game and won.
HobbEs
QUOTE
You really think we should hire a coach to be on our staff before we hire a head coach? We saw how that worked out with the defensive coordinator.


Sure....we should hire him now. It can only be an improvement from what we have.

WTF. blink.gif
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Nov 30 2012, 02:26 PM) *
Sure....we should hire him now. It can only be an improvement from what we have.

WTF. blink.gif


I still have no idea if you're serious or not
make_it_rain
Kiffins the man, but he's what, like 72 now? I'd be ecstatic if we landed him as DC, not sure about how I feel getting him as head coach
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ Nov 30 2012, 03:24 PM) *
Kiffins the man, but he's what, like 72 now? I'd be ecstatic if we landed him as DC, not sure about how I feel getting him as head coach


Well, if we bring in Kelly, I can't imagine he'll want the guy who gave up 700 yards to his offense.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Nov 30 2012, 12:52 PM) *
Go get him Howie!


I get a funny feeling he doesn't want to go from contending for NCAA championships in Southern California to rebuilding an NFL franchise in Philly. But yeah, I'd love it.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Nov 30 2012, 04:21 PM) *
I get a funny feeling he doesn't want to go from contending for NCAA championships in Southern California

You don't watch much college football, do ya?
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 30 2012, 04:24 PM) *
You don't watch much college football, do ya?


?
HobbEs
QUOTE
I still have no idea if you're serious or not


Lol, call it semi-serious. I originally made the post because Kiffin's name had come up in previous discussion and tought it would be of interest to a few people here on the board. The "go get him" part of course is not serious.

But, I still believe that if Kiffin came in here today it would be an improvement over what we have coaching our defense. Even if they hired him as a consultant (which would be the only way you could bring him on with a coaching upheaval on the horizon) he would have a positive effect.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Nov 30 2012, 04:27 PM) *
?

His Trojans just had one of the most disappointing seasons in NCAA history. The first preseason #1 to finish unranked since the 60's. His defense gave up over 700 yards and 60 points to Oregon.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Nov 30 2012, 04:34 PM) *
Lol, call it semi-serious. I originally made the post because Kiffin's name had come up in previous discussion and tought it would be of interest to a few people here on the board. The "go get him" part of course is not serious.

But, I still believe that if Kiffin came in here today it would be an improvement over what we have coaching our defense. Even if they hired him as a consultant (which would be the only way you could bring him on with a coaching upheaval on the horizon) he would have a positive effect.

Lets get the wide-9 out the door and reevaluate.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 30 2012, 04:36 PM) *
His Trojans just had one of the most disappointing seasons in NCAA history. The first preseason #1 to finish unranked since the 60's. His defense gave up over 700 yards and 60 points to Oregon.


Thanks for the history lesson. So going 8-5, 10-2, and being ranked #1 then going 7-5 isn't 'contending?' This from the arbiter of 'success' in the NFL? Stick with defending the 3-8 Walrus. Maybe we should ask Kiffin about who's better, Gruden or Reid?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Nov 30 2012, 04:48 PM) *
Thanks for the history lesson. So going 8-5, 10-2, and being ranked #1 then going 7-5 isn't 'contending?'

Well, considering that they were ineligible for bowl play the previous two seasons, no, they weren't contending. Additionally, unless you play in the SEC, one loss is basically the end of championship hopes.

Going 7-5 after being the #1 team in the country is a lot of things. "Contending" isn't one of them. Like I said, you must not watch much college football. Having a 7-5 record at USC is basically never acceptable. Doing it when you start the season #1 is something else.

QUOTE
This from the arbiter of 'success' in the NFL? Stick with defending the 3-8 Walrus. Maybe we should ask Kiffin about who's better, Gruden or Reid?

How would Kiffin know anything about coaching with Reid? I know that Reid's postseason record was 2-1 against Kiffin's teams.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
Additionally, unless you play in the SEC, one loss is basically the end of championship hopes.


As you guessed, no I hardly ever watch college football. This is pretty much why - no structure, rhyme, or reason to it - you can go undefeated and not even get a bowl game. What's the point? That BCS crap.....

QUOTE
How would Kiffin know anything about coaching with Reid? I know that Reid's postseason record was 2-1 against Kiffin's teams.


He would know about coaching against Reid under 2 different HCs - who was 0-2 against Gruden, and what 4-0 against Dungy?

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Nov 30 2012, 05:19 PM) *
As you guessed, no I hardly ever watch college football. This is pretty much why - no structure, rhyme, or reason to it - you can go undefeated and not even get a bowl game. What's the point? That BCS crap.....

Because the NCAA is one of the most corrupt organizations in this country...

Fortunately they're putting in a playoff type system, but that is inevitably going to be flawed as fuck too.

I enjoy college football, specifically the tradition, but I have become less enthralled as I've gotten older. Getting pissed at college kids who don't get paid isn't nearly as satisfying as getting pissed at the pros. And with the teams I cheer for, there is lots of getting pissed going on.

QUOTE
He would know about coaching against Reid under 2 different HCs - who was 0-2 against Gruden, and what 4-0 against Dungy?

But Dungy has a SB too! That means he is a better coach than Reid.

I actually took it upon myself to look at the Buccaneers of that era. The big difference wasn't their improvement on offense (which actually dropped 3 spots in scoring from 2001 to 2002.)

It was their defense, which went from very good (8th in scoring) to all-time great (1st) from 2001-2002.

The Gruden circle jerk around this place is puzzling. He was a pretty good coach, without question, but people are way too obsessed with that guy.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 30 2012, 10:29 PM) *
The Gruden circle jerk around this place is puzzling. He was a pretty good coach, without question, but people are way too obsessed with that guy.



I don't want to take anything away from Gruden but I think it is helpful to remember that he won his SB coaching against a team that he knew inside and out. That is one hell of an advantage in a big game.

That season will always go down as one of the most painful in my memory. I truly believe if the Eagles would not have chocked so badly against TB that they would have brought home a Lombardi.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Nov 30 2012, 06:51 PM) *
That season will always go down as one of the most painful in my memory. I truly believe if the Eagles would not have chocked so badly against TB that they would have brought home a Lombardi
They didn't choke! Donovan was playing on a broken leg against a great defense.


Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 30 2012, 05:58 PM) *
They didn't choke! Donovan was playing on a broken leg against a great defense.

Eagles choked. We owned them and lost...badly.

QUOTE
This set up the most heartbreaking game in Eagles, and possibly all of Philadelphia sports history: the 2002 NFC Championship Game. The Eagles were once again facing the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and were favored.

This was to be a cakewalk. The Eagles owned Tampa in their meetings the previous two playoff seasons and had beaten them handily earlier that season at home.

Tampa Bay supposedly couldn't play in the cold having never won a game played below 30 degrees in the history of their franchise. It was 20 degrees at kickoff with a wind chill of seven—seven!

It was to be the final Eagles game at Veteran's Stadium, which was supposed to lift the intimidating Eagles crowd to even higher levels of feverish insanity.

And it started off great.

Brian Mitchell returned the kickoff 70 yards to open the game. The cheering from the run back had not died down by the time Duce Staley ran the ball into the endzone on the second play from scrimmage. Just 45 seconds into the game, the Eagles were ahead by seven.

Bedlam in the crowd ensued.

Then the bottom dropped out.

The next possession the Buccaneers methodically made their way up field into field goal range and put three points on the board. The next possession for the Eagles was a three and out, after an incomplete pass and two runs by Dorsey Levens went for a combined gain of one yard.

Andy Reid and Jim Johnson, known for their aggressiveness, both went to game plans that were so conservative Karl Rove would've blushed.

As in the St. Louis game the year before, Jim Johnson's defense couldn't stop the run. There was no pressure put on Tampa quarterback Brad Johnson whose mobility has been compared to that of the Statue of David.

Stake in the heart

The Eagles offense never got much going for it either.

With 1:57 left in the first quarter, Brad Johnson hit a crossing Joe Jurevicius who took the pass for 71 yards setting up the go ahead touchdown.

The offense couldn't get in rhythm, the defense couldn't get off the field and the fans in attendance sat in stunned—and freezing cold—silence as the unthinkable unfolded in front of their eyes and The Season came to an end.

The enduring image is of Rondae Barber jumping a route late in the game, picking off McNabb and returning the interception for the six points that drove the nail into the coffin of the Eagles season.


The offense was predictable and the defense was crappy. It was a predecessor to the Cardinals NFCCG in '08. Same shit, different game.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 30 2012, 06:46 PM) *
Eagles choked. We owned them and lost...badly.



The offense was predictable and the defense was crappy. It was a predecessor to the Cardinals NFCCG in '08. Same shit, different game.


I was at that game, the worst loss of my life - the offensive gameplan was mind-boggingly predictable and conservative. At least in the Arizona debacle we tried some deep throws.

There is no 'circle-jerk' about Gruden - it's that the guy gets no respect for absolutely humiliating us in 2 consecutive games to finish one stadium and begin another, including driving a stake in our heart in the game we needed to go to the Super Bowl - a game EVERYONE on the fucking planet thought we were going to easily win, I'm sure that includes most Bucs fans. Most of the people who refuse to give Gruden credit are Reid apologists, so it isn't hard to figure out 2 + 2.

"Hey just did it with Dungy's defense"

Yeah! Dungy couldn't do it with 'Dungy's defense' - and we owned their asses until that game. And my point about Kiffin was that it was really Kiffin's defense, though Dungy should get some credit - and if you asked Kiffin, he would probably take Gruden over both Dungy and Reid.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 30 2012, 10:58 PM) *
They didn't choke! Donovan was playing on a broken leg against a great defense.


That game was the definition of a choke. Every intangible was in the Eagle's favor not mention that they were an overall better football team. The only question I have is what was the bigger choke job. That Bucs game or the Carolina game the following season?
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Nov 30 2012, 08:41 PM) *
That game was the definition of a choke. Every intangible was in the Eagle's favor not mention that they were an overall better football team. The only question I have is what was the bigger choke job. That Bucs game or the Carolina game the following season?


The Bucs game by far - while the Carolina game was disgusting, they were a very solid team and Donovan got injured during the game. The Bucs game had every single tangible and intangible in our favor.
mcnabbulous
Let me get this straight. No one here thinks the fact that our most important player playing on a recovering broken fibula against one of the greatest defenses of all time had anything to do with it?

Our biggest (only) offensive weapon at that time was the threat of Donovan busting a run on a team, much like he had done to that defense in the past. Without it, they were able to unload on him.
Eyrie
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 1 2012, 12:59 AM) *
I was at that game, the worst loss of my life - the offensive gameplan was mind-boggingly predictable and conservative. At least in the Arizona debacle we tried some deep throws.

There is no 'circle-jerk' about Gruden - it's that the guy gets no respect for absolutely humiliating us in 2 consecutive games to finish one stadium and begin another, including driving a stake in our heart in the game we needed to go to the Super Bowl - a game EVERYONE on the fucking planet thought we were going to easily win, I'm sure that includes most Bucs fans. Most of the people who refuse to give Gruden credit are Reid apologists, so it isn't hard to figure out 2 + 2.

"Hey just did it with Dungy's defense"

Yeah! Dungy couldn't do it with 'Dungy's defense' - and we owned their asses until that game. And my point about Kiffin was that it was really Kiffin's defense, though Dungy should get some credit - and if you asked Kiffin, he would probably take Gruden over both Dungy and Reid.

And what did Gruden do in subsequent seasons?

If he gets the job he'll have my support, but I'd much prefer he doesn't.
Zero
I heard on the radio yesterday that Peyton may not return to New Orleans next year. I'd like to see a defensive coach but Peyton would be fine with me. He's established and would attract top assistants. He knows offense and QBs.

Is there a "dreaming" icon to insert here?
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Dec 1 2012, 09:04 AM) *
And what did Gruden do in subsequent seasons?

If he gets the job he'll have my support, but I'd much prefer he doesn't.



yea um, Gruden wont come here if Howie stays. Banner is gone and once AR goes that leaves Howie as the last man standing and he will want to assert his influence on the team (snicker)

Howie isnt gonna hire another guy he has to answer to. Gruden could take a job where he is beholden to the GM, but not a 38yr old non-football guy

any former big name NFL coach (payton, etc...) will also snicker at Howie, which means that they will have to get an unknown college guy (maybe an NFL asst) who is just happy to get a sniff at an NFL HC job

AKA: Howie's boy
Zero
Payton linkity ...

QUOTE
Payton said he "plans" to coach in New Orleans next year, but we can't say that for sure right now. The biggest eyebrow raiser here is that the news came out at all. That doesn't happen by accident. The Saints clearly weren't happy that the story leaked. SI.com's Peter King sums it up well: "The fact that the story got out tells me a few things. It's no lock that Payton will stay a Saint; if it were, he'd have agreed to a rewritten deal by now."
Phits
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Dec 1 2012, 08:04 AM) *
And what did Gruden do in subsequent seasons?

I would happily take a SB championship followed by several seasons of mediocrity.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ Dec 1 2012, 10:12 AM) *
yea um, Gruden wont come here if Howie stays. Banner is gone and once AR goes that leaves Howie as the last man standing and he will want to assert his influence on the team (snicker)

Howie isnt gonna hire another guy he has to answer to. Gruden could take a job where he is beholden to the GM, but not a 38yr old non-football guy

any former big name NFL coach (payton, etc...) will also snicker at Howie, which means that they will have to get an unknown college guy (maybe an NFL asst) who is just happy to get a sniff at an NFL HC job

AKA: Howie's boy

I think this is logical thinking. Most of the big name coaches want control over personnel (which is never good policy.) Howie's not going to want to bring in someone who is already an established NFL guy.

I'm onboard the DRock train with the David Shaw choice at this point. Not sure if he'd leave Stanford, but I dig his style.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Dec 1 2012, 08:04 AM) *
And what did Gruden do in subsequent seasons?


Continue coaching - Tampa fans spent the subsequent seasons buying their rings, 'world champion' t-shirts, and bragging to Eagles fans about how we still have never won one. I'd like to do that once in my life.
make_it_rain
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 1 2012, 02:55 PM) *
Continue coaching - Tampa fans spent the subsequent seasons buying their rings, 'world champion' t-shirts, and bragging to Eagles fans about how we still have never won one. I'd like to do that once in my life.




HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ Dec 1 2012, 03:48 PM) *


laugh.gif

I love your schtick man.

Speaking of Rudy, we could sure use him on our defensive line right now.
Eyrie
QUOTE (Phits @ Dec 1 2012, 06:35 PM) *
I would happily take a SB championship followed by several seasons of mediocrity.

I think most of us would.

QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Dec 1 2012, 07:55 PM) *
Continue coaching - Tampa fans spent the subsequent seasons buying their rings, 'world champion' t-shirts, and bragging to Eagles fans about how we still have never won one. I'd like to do that once in my life.

And that is why I don't want Gruden. He won the SuperBowl in his first year with an established team, then struggled in subsequent seasons to build from there. If he came to us then he'd immediately be in rebuilding mode. There was a case for him here a few years ago, when McNabb was still playing well, but not now.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Dec 2 2012, 06:50 AM) *
And that is why I don't want Gruden. He won the SuperBowl in his first year with an established team, then struggled in subsequent seasons to build from there. If he came to us then he'd immediately be in rebuilding mode. There was a case for him here a few years ago, when McNabb was still playing well, but not now.

This
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