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D Rock
Even I am ready to give Dandy Andy the Heave-Ho.

For me, it's about personnel. He's failed miserably to build a team with the sort of toughness required to win in our division. They're a bunch of over hyped underachieving asswipes from top to bottom as I see it.

But,

Living here in L.A. where everyone is from somewhere else, I know as many VaGiants, Cowgirls and Foreskin fans as I do Iggle fans. To a man, they are ALL overjoyed at the prospect of an Eagle Franchise sans Andy Reid.

Most (certainly not all) of these cats are real football fans (assuming you can lay that label on a Cowgirls fan et al) and know the game. They've spent the past 14 years hating the fat man more than the most vitriolic here.

At the end of the day. Reid didn't fumble the ball twice in the red zone while running for a rookie running back record. He didn't fumble the ball in THE FIRST GODDAM kickoff return that went past the 30 ALL YEAR !!!

Ultimately, he's responsible for the train wreck. But honestly, I feel for the fat SOB. The look on his face after Brown's 2nd fumble was painful to watch.

We're in for some dark dark times over the next 5 - 10 years.

mad.gif
Eyrie
I've said repeatedly over the last few years that the odds are against us getting a replacement who will do as well as Reid. But it was always my position that we can see how far he can take us and it was necessary to make the change to see if the new guy could take us those last few steps.

Once we've finished suffering through this season we're going to finally get the chance to find out what happens when we roll the dice.
Zero
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Nov 27 2012, 03:43 PM) *
I've said repeatedly over the last few years that the odds are against us getting a replacement who will do as well as Reid. But it was always my position that we can see how far he can take us and it was necessary to make the change to see if the new guy could take us those last few steps.

Once we've finished suffering through this season we're going to finally get the chance to find out what happens when we roll the dice.


Lurie needs to buy stock in Due Diligence! Pick the right coach and we'll see a return to competiveness. Look at the difference Jim Harbaugh made to a pathetic 9ers team and Belechek to a woeful Patriot team. This team has holes and questions to be sure but they also have a lot of talented players. Good coaching and a select FA here and there and they're much better than the crap we're watching now.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 27 2012, 03:53 PM) *
Lurie needs to buy stock in Due Diligence! Pick the right coach and we'll see a return to competiveness. Look at the difference Jim Harbaugh made to a pathetic 9ers team and Belechek to a woeful Patriot team. This team has holes and questions to be sure but they also have a lot of talented players. Good coaching and a select FA here and there and they're much better than the crap we're watching now.


We need to be better in the draft. That has been our biggest problem. We aren't very talented, especially on defense. We have a couple of promising rookies, but no one in their prime. That's because Cole was our last good defensive draft pick.
It's pretty easy to see what caused this.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 27 2012, 04:18 PM) *
It's pretty easy to see what caused this.




Yep
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 27 2012, 10:18 PM) *
We need to be better in the draft. That has been our biggest problem. We aren't very talented, especially on defense. We have a couple of promising rookies, but no one in their prime. That's because Cole was our last good defensive draft pick.
It's pretty easy to see what caused this.

Spot on.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 27 2012, 04:41 PM) *


Yep


His draft plan, yes. But I've been saying that for years. Coaches shouldn't have control over personnel.
Zero
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 27 2012, 04:18 PM) *
We need to be better in the draft. That has been our biggest problem. We aren't very talented, especially on defense. We have a couple of promising rookies, but no one in their prime. That's because Cole was our last good defensive draft pick.
It's pretty easy to see what caused this.

Cox, Kendricks, Curry, Boykin ... too early to judge and to a lesser extent Allen, Marsh and Grahm. IMO, Reid's coaching style and his selection of coaches has changed dramatically ever since his sons got caught up in drugs. There very well could be young talent on this team that hasn't been coached to NFL standards.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 27 2012, 05:02 PM) *
Cox, Kendricks, Curry, Boykin ... too early to judge

Definitely some promise here, but you definitely can't count on rookies, which this team is clearly doing.

QUOTE
and to a lesser extent Allen, Marsh and Grahm.

A much lesser extent. Allen looks like total garbage...maybe worse than Coleman.

QUOTE
IMO, Reid's coaching style

He's definitely far less intense these days. Maybe too buddy-buddy with players.

QUOTE
and his selection of coaches has changed dramatically ever since his sons got caught up in drugs.

How do you mean? The coach selection seems about the same to me. As far as bringing in guys he respects that have given him problems in the past. Same logic with JJ. The new ones simply haven't panned out.

QUOTE
There very well could be young talent on this team that hasn't been coached to NFL standards.

We haven't seen our players moving to other teams after they get booted here. That used to be the case. A young guy would get cut in Philly due to roster space, then go on to moderate success somewhere else.

Now, we cut our guys cause they suck, and they're out of the league in no time. That's drafting.
SAM I Am
QUOTE (D Rock @ Nov 27 2012, 02:13 PM) *
I feel for the fat SOB.

How can you not feel for him. No matter what some people may say --- myself included (poor clock manager, can't think well on his feet during the game, etc...) --- the fat SOB poured his heart and soul into this thing, day in and day out every year he was here.

QUOTE (D Rock @ Nov 27 2012, 02:13 PM) *
We're in for some dark dark times over the next 5 - 10 years.

I think that is a bit of a stretch, but who knows...
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (SAM I Am @ Nov 27 2012, 07:20 PM) *
How can you not feel for him. No matter what some people may say --- myself included (poor clock manager, can't think well on his feet during the game, etc...) --- the fat SOB poured his heart and soul into this thing, day in and day out every year he was here.


If McNabb left 4 years before he actually left, you would find a whole lot less haters. Same with Reid - I wanted him gone after the NFCCG debacle against the Cardinals, and every game since has been an exercise in futility, knowing we would never win a ring with him - I was in the extreme minority in '08, and thankfully most have finally caught on - with his arrogance and stubbornness, and condescending attitude towards the media and the fans, and his constant BS, I'm glad knowing he finally has to face the fact that the emperor has no clothes. No more JJ. No more McNabb. Just Andy and Marty, at 3-8 and counting.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Nov 27 2012, 08:49 PM) *
and condescending attitude towards the media

There is a lot of stuff to criticize Andy for. This is the dumbest and most irrelevant.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 27 2012, 10:17 PM) *
There is a lot of stuff to criticize Andy for. This is the dumbest and most irrelevant.


"i goofed"

"kolb is our starter"

"if you do the math we were 8-8 and they were 9-7"

"we were trying ot catch up and win the game"

just give up you groupie
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 27 2012, 06:39 PM) *
How do you mean? The coach selection seems about the same to me. As far as bringing in guys he respects that have given him problems in the past. Same logic with JJ. The new ones simply haven't panned out.

Mudd, Washburn, April....they all come highly recommended as masters of their craft. Unfortunately, they also come with their own schemes and designs. The flaw in this philosophy is that the personnel needs to fit the style or else.......

That's the difference with the coaching selection. AR used to groom his coaches from virtual unknowns to masters of their craft. The team was built around this, and we won games.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Nov 27 2012, 10:56 PM) *
"i goofed"

"kolb is our starter"

"if you do the math we were 8-8 and they were 9-7"

"we were trying ot catch up and win the game"

just give up you groupie


And how does any of it matter?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 27 2012, 11:01 PM) *
Mudd, Washburn, April....they all come highly recommended as masters of their craft. Unfortunately, they also come with their own schemes and designs. The flaw in this philosophy is that the personnel needs to fit the style or else.......

That's the difference with the coaching selection. AR used to groom his coaches from virtual unknowns to masters of their craft. The team was built around this, and we won games.


Did he groom them or were they really good to begin with? I don't know either way.
I don't think the coaches are the issue as much as the players. When Andy came in, we had a great defensive core in its prime. JJ didn't build that, he worked with it. Over Andy's tenure, we've brought in a bunch of undersized, speed guys. In recent years, it's been guys to fit the wide-9. Instead of scheming to fit the guys, we have guys to fit the scheme.
That seems like the difference to me.
Zero
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 27 2012, 11:29 PM) *
Instead of scheming to fit the guys, we have guys to fit the scheme.

I don't remember Andy ever scheming to fit the player. I've always felt he tried fitting square pegs in round holes. His philosophy always seemed to be to rely on the scheme, players were interchangable parts. Next man up theory.
Dreagon
QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 28 2012, 04:49 AM) *
I don't remember Andy ever scheming to fit the player. I've always felt he tried fitting square pegs in round holes. His philosophy always seemed to be to rely on the scheme, players were interchangable parts. Next man up theory.


That was always the weird thing. It seemed like Reid liked to take strong armed, highly mobile QBs and turn them into pocket passers...yet at times it seemed like their mobility was actually what was making Reids scheme work. So it was like the QB was always at war with the scheme, even while he was trying to make it work.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 28 2012, 05:49 AM) *
I don't remember Andy ever scheming to fit the player. I've always felt he tried fitting square pegs in round holes. His philosophy always seemed to be to rely on the scheme, players were interchangable parts. Next man up theory.


Our early 2000's offense was quite a bit different than what we see now. I'm curious as to what you think the difference is then. We used to have success. Now we are clearly terrible.

In my opinion, early, mobile Donovan was able to move the chains with his legs. They become much more dependent on big plays once he lost that ability.

Our defense was much more formidable when JJ was coaching the stars from the Rhodes era than when guys were brought in to fit his scheme. Cole is just about the only defender I can think that thrived under JJ once drafted. Maybe Simon for a bit too, but he was a top 5 or 6 pick.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Nov 28 2012, 09:09 AM) *
That was always the weird thing. It seemed like Reid liked to take strong armed, highly mobile QBs and turn them into pocket passers...

I'm not sure this is true. I never saw any indication that he wanted Donovan to become more of a pocket passer. That always seemed like Donovan's goal.
I think Andy wants running QB's because he does consider it to be part of the running game and a way to move the chains.
Unfortunately, Donnie got fat...err packed on mass so he could take hits, and lost his best asset. Vick just doesn't have great awareness.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 28 2012, 09:25 AM) *
I'm not sure this is true. I never saw any indication that he wanted Donovan to become more of a pocket passer. That always seemed like Donovan's goal.

High rates of accuracy is/was not a trait of AR groomed QB's, yet he runs/ran a scheme that required this kind of accuracy. We all know accuracy is affected when throwing on the run. We all know that speed/quickness are one of the first gifts to go. In other words, you have to be a pocket passer in this system. A pocket passer with the ability to run the ball (when needed). We have it the other way around.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 28 2012, 09:52 AM) *
High rates of accuracy is/was not a trait of AR groomed QB's, yet he runs/ran a scheme that required this kind of accuracy. We all know accuracy is affected when throwing on the run. We all know that speed/quickness are one of the first gifts to go. In other words, you have to be a pocket passer in this system. A pocket passer with the ability to run the ball (when needed). We have it the other way around.


All schemes require accuracy from the QB, but I'll agree that Andy never seemed to prioritize it. Likely because he counted on the mobility. Donnie lost his much faster than he should have.
Zero
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 28 2012, 09:17 AM) *
Our early 2000's offense was quite a bit different than what we see now. I'm curious as to what you think the difference is then. We used to have success. Now we are clearly terrible.

In my opinion, early, mobile Donovan was able to move the chains with his legs. They become much more dependent on big plays once he lost that ability.

Our defense was much more formidable when JJ was coaching the stars from the Rhodes era than when guys were brought in to fit his scheme. Cole is just about the only defender I can think that thrived under JJ once drafted. Maybe Simon for a bit too, but he was a top 5 or 6 pick.


I think Andy became enamored with the big play when he brought in TOO. From then on he hasn't seemed to budge off of that offense. I think the change was more due to a quick score mentality than it was with DMac because at that point I think DMac could still move.

When he had Duce, Buck and Westy he didn't have the receivers so he used what he had. IMO this is different than adjusting his system to fit the talent, I view it as being smart enough to use what he has that works. Witness his obsession with a pass first mentality even with Shady and a QB with good wheels.

I think there's a difference although there has been instances with Feeley and Garcia that he changed things up to fit the player. I just wish he'd have done it as a routine.

I also think he left the defense pretty much in the hands of JJ.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 27 2012, 11:25 PM) *
And how does any of it matter?


It shows an obvious condescending attitude towards the media and fans, which you said was irrelevant - it ISN'T fucking irrelevant, at least not to people who care about the franchise.
Eyrie
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Nov 28 2012, 07:37 PM) *
It shows an obvious condescending attitude towards the media and fans, which you said was irrelevant - it ISN'T fucking irrelevant, at least not to people who care about the franchise.

It's irrelevant to me.

I didn't mind Reid's bland press conferences when he was giving us a winning team, and I regard them as irrelevant now that he is finished here.

I'll be delighted if his successor mouths anodyne platitudes just as long as he gives us a genuine contender again like we had ten years ago.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Nov 28 2012, 02:50 PM) *
I'll be delighted if his successor mouths anodyne platitudes just as long as he gives us a genuine contender again like we had ten years ago.


I guess that's the whole point - notice how people only started to care about his press conferences once we started sucking.....
Eyrie
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Nov 28 2012, 07:51 PM) *
I guess that's the whole point - notice how people only started to care about his press conferences once we started sucking.....

Plenty on here used to bitch about them in the good days as well.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Nov 28 2012, 02:37 PM) *
It shows an obvious condescending attitude towards the media and fans, which you said was irrelevant - it ISN'T fucking irrelevant, at least not to people who care about the franchise.

Keeping shit behind closed doors isn't condescending. Almost every good coach handles their PC's in the same capacity that Reid did. When he's winning, it's fine. When he's losing, you want answers, and it's not his nature to give them in that environment.
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