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Zero
Top 5 differences between 2004 and 2012:


5. Competition - The rest of the NFC wasn't nearly the challenge it is now.
4. OL - The OL had two stellar anchors at OT and the other three were good enough.
3. Defense - The defense was very good with some inspirational leaders like Dawk and Trot and they often intimidated the other team.
2. Coaching staff - This staff misses guys like JJ, Harbaugh, Brasher, Spags, Shurmer and yes, Castillo as OL coach.
1. Health - The main disaster area this year is the OL and the injuries there have been significant enough to affect the psych of the entire team.

Put aside the health issue as that falls in the "shit happens" file. The Eagles decline from prominence is a direct result of inadequate coaches and talent evaluation. There were lots of holes on the 2004 team, but they were countered by a few great players in key positions.

The OL was anchored by Thomas and Runyan and those two set the tone for the entire unit. Same thing on the defense with Dawk and Trot. The only real weak links were Simoneau and Jones but they had JJ to lead them. Special teams were actually good.

Andy has had the final say on personnel and coaches. He's done a terrible job in both areas and this is the main reason why he needs to be replaced. He can't control the injuries and he can't block for a line that has been decimated by injury but he is the one who's decided who works for him.

Dreagon
I don't think anybody has ever really stepped up and replaced the leaders ya'll had in Dawkins and Trotter.
TGryn
Competition is a chicken/egg kind of thing - were the teams bad and that's why the Eagles won the East so much, or did the teams look worse than they were because they had the misfortune of being in the same division as the Eagles at their apex?

In theory the coaching staff should be stronger than the last few years with Washburn, Mudd, and April, plus Bowles this year. Its one of the big mysteries on this team why their fundamentals are so poor.

Also, lets be fair: McNabb and TO were probably the #1 combo in the NFL in 2004. That was the difference between that team and '01-'02-'03.
mcnabbulous
Elite level McNabb was the biggest difference, in my opinion.

It's the last time we've gotten upper echelon play at the QB position. Other than a 7 game stretch in 2010 before defenses adjusted to Vick.
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (TGryn @ Nov 18 2012, 10:03 PM) *
In theory the coaching staff should be stronger than the last few years with Washburn, Mudd, and April, plus Bowles this year. Its one of the big mysteries on this team why their fundamentals are so poor.


washburn gave you the wide 9 which, in a copycat league, is unpopular for a reason. aside from how effective the wide9 is or isnt, commiting to washburn before the DC has resulted in castillo/bowles for DC which hasnt worked either.

mudd brought you the unique style of Oline play (described as 'jump set' by former players). those former players also agree that while a nice concept, its more difficult to learn and play effectively and so if using OL players with questionable skill they will be LESS likely to be even serviceable. basically taking a bunch of second rate players and asking them to change their lifelong style of play to suit your genius of an Oline coach and his exotic style will result in diminishing returns. if they suck, make things easier y'know?

April and Bowles arent unique...they just havent improved their units as you hoped. . more coaches like that in this league than fans in the stands

its not really a mystery at all
nephillymike
Jim Johnson.

It was always suspected that he was a huge factor in Andy's success.

The years and decisions made on that side of the ball since he stopped coaching speaks volumes of what he meant.

Without the Jim Johnson defense to hold down the fort, Andy, Marty and the front office have been exposed.

Sometimes a strength in one department hides a lot of weaknesses in others.

To a lesser extent, you can add Harbaugh's departure from ST in the mix also. They've sucked since he left.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Nov 18 2012, 10:27 PM) *
Jim Johnson.

It was always suspected that he was a huge factor in Andy's success.

The years and decisions made on that side of the ball since he stopped coaching speaks volumes of what he meant.

Without the Jim Johnson defense to hold down the fort, Andy, Marty and the front office have been exposed.

Sometimes a strength in one department hides a lot of weaknesses in others.

To a lesser extent, you can add Harbaugh's departure from ST in the mix also. They've sucked since he left.


The emperor has no clothes. Just how much JJ hid Andy's obvious flaws as HC has become evident, more so each week.
mcnabbulous
Didn't Andy hand pick JJ to be his DC? Despite having no previous relationship with him? Isn't that the job of a HC?
Zero
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 19 2012, 12:26 AM) *
Didn't Andy hand pick JJ to be his DC? Despite having no previous relationship with him? Isn't that the job of a HC?

Sure, and it seems to be proving the "every blind squirrel ..." theory. I guess that's not really fair because Reid started off very successful picking his coaches. The problem is, that seems to have changed dramatically. Is it that he can't pick 'em any more or, is it possible that coaches don't want to work under Andy?

Edit:
Lawlor's got a point here: "It takes the right blend of personalities for an organization to work. The Eagles had that blend a decade ago, but not anymore."

Reid went from the Hegaman sled to hip bumping his players. I remember looking at his glare when he was first hired and saying "who wouldn't want this guy as the HC?" He had an intense, no nonsense look on his face.

The players on this team are nice guys and the coaches are nice guys for the most part. The players keep screwing the pooch because their not being held accountable. Castillo was held accountable but he wasn't the real problem.

Andy is the problem. He bonds with his players now. Is it because of the problems he had with his sons? Sure, last year he sat DJax but then he repairs the negotiations and emerges as the good guy. Everyone likes a good guy, but is that who is most effective as HC?
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 19 2012, 06:19 AM) *
Sure, and it seems to be proving the "every blind squirrel ..." theory. I guess that's not really fair because Reid started off very successful picking his coaches. The problem is, that seems to have changed dramatically. Is it that he can't pick 'em any more or, is it possible that coaches don't want to work under Andy?


He retained Harbaugh and hired JJ, and both defense and special teams units were excellent for many years. But I think at this point you may be right, coaches in the NFL are somewhat of a 'family' and very rarely call each other out or talk shit publicly. However, the undisciplined mess that has been this team for years, the lack of focus on the LB position really until this last year, the predictable offensive playcalling, putting more pressure on the D - who the hell would want to be Andy's DC except someone who just wants a shot at the spotlight (Castillo)?

Everyone wanted Spags to come here, I think it was obvious he wanted nothing to do with this franchise under the current regime - instead go to NO and have an actual shot at a ring.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 19 2012, 06:19 AM) *
Sure, and it seems to be proving the "every blind squirrel ..." theory. I guess that's not really fair because Reid started off very successful picking his coaches. The problem is, that seems to have changed dramatically. Is it that he can't pick 'em any more or, is it possible that coaches don't want to work under Andy?

I don't think it's that people don't want to work with Andy, I just think his moves haven't worked, for a couple of reasons...

Bringing in Washburn seems like it was his next "JJ" type of move. From what I understand, there was no existing relationship. When it happened, it was largely praised. I've said for a while that I think it's the lone reason we ended up with Castillo as our DC. It's not that people don't want to work with Andy. It's that they don't want to work with the wide-9.

The unique thing about JJ was his ability to cover up our weaknesses. We have been terrible in the draft on the defensive side of the ball. Absolutely terrible. Ultimately that catches up.

Andy was his best as a coach when he was working with players who were great players, but didn't necessarily fit his scheme. We're currently scheme built on both sides of the ball. The problem with that is that we're forced to out scheme every other team, instead of just lining up and beating them.

We need a new system and new players. But most importantly, we need a GM who can bring better players to Philly. We have some talent at the top, but there is a huge drop off once you get beyond our top 5-10 guys.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Nov 19 2012, 07:11 AM) *
Everyone wanted Spags to come here, I think it was obvious he wanted nothing to do with this franchise under the current regime - instead go to NO and have an actual shot at a ring.

I think this has to do with the wide-9. The decision to build our defense around it has been a killer. Real defensive coordinators don't want to touch it.

It seems like a band-aid. We couldn't generate a pass rush after JJ left, so we had to put in a scheme that weakened the rest of our defense, to enable our mediocre (except Cole) pass rushers to get at the QB.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 19 2012, 08:57 AM) *
I think this has to do with the wide-9. The decision to build our defense around it has been a killer. Real defensive coordinators don't want to touch it.

It seems like a band-aid. We couldn't generate a pass rush after JJ left, so we had to put in a scheme that weakened the rest of our defense, to enable our mediocre (except Cole) pass rushers to get at the QB.


Babin got a sack yesterday! jumpclap.gif

Ok so I agree with your point, but Reid is the one who hired Washburn first, no? Nobody wanted to touch the wide--9 with our shitty linebackers at the time, who can blame them? If Reid gets credit for JJ which he should, then he also gets credit for building our d around the wide-9.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Nov 19 2012, 09:00 AM) *
Babin got a sack yesterday! jumpclap.gif

Ok so I agree with your point, but Reid is the one who hired Washburn first, no? Nobody wanted to touch the wide--9 with our shitty linebackers at the time, who can blame them? If Reid gets credit for JJ which he should, then he also gets credit for building our d around the wide-9.

Oh, he definitely deserves blame. The move is one of several that's going to cost him his job (let by putting his eggs in the Vick basket.)

With that said, the move was applauded when it initially happened. Washburn was considered to be the best DL coach in football. The fact that we were able to sign Washburn to begin with kind of defeats the "people don't want to coach with Andy" argument.
SLOiggles
QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 18 2012, 04:40 PM) *
Top 5 differences between 2004 and 2012:

2. Coaching staff - This staff misses guys like JJ, Harbaugh, Brasher, Spags, Shurmer and yes, Castillo as OL coach.



Wow.

We really did have those coaches at once didn't we?

No wonder why Reid kept his job for so long.

Honestly?!? Guess you take things like this for granted.
Phits
you know what else has changed since 2004? My blind allegiance to Andy Reid. I see his flaws for what they were/are and now realize that he was good at one time....maybe even great. That time past long ago, and I refused to believe it. He has become mediocre as an Eagles coach and probably needs a change of scenery to rejuvenate himself.

I wish him the best, just not as my HC any longer.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (SLOiggles @ Nov 20 2012, 01:49 AM) *
Wow.

We really did have those coaches at once didn't we?

No wonder why Reid kept his job for so long.

Honestly?!? Guess you take things like this for granted.

Leslie Frazier, too.
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