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Reality Fan
yep....Foles looks terrific....it had to be Vick........what a fucking joke
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 18 2012, 03:03 PM) *
yep....Foles looks terrific....it had to be Vick........what a fucking joke


The Oline is terrible, but we are also progressively getting worse by injury. We weren't this terrible early in the season. Now we have 1 starter remaining and a guy who we signed 6 days ago.
Why you're defending Vick is beyond me. Our Oline and Vick can both be terrible.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 18 2012, 02:08 PM) *
The Oline is terrible, but we are also progressively getting worse by injury. We weren't this terrible early in the season. Now we have 1 starter remaining and a guy who we signed 6 days ago.
Why you're defending Vick is beyond me. Our Oline and Vick can both be terrible.


It is not defending Vick, it is pointing out what you just said but are apparently too obtuse to realize.....the entire blame this season has centered on Vick here and any effort to paint the real reason being a depleted and ineffective O line has been hashed over in a zealous attempt to demonize Vick. He may suck but my point has always been that the O line sucking made any evaluation impossible because he has been running for his life for 2 seasons. Even last year was terrible but just not as bad because he had some help from Peters to limit his need to run on every down within the first 2 seconds.

Add to that the horrendous play calling and you have a no win situation for any QB. The issue here is not me defending Vick, I could care less about him. The issue here is identifying what this offense has become and the real reasons for it.

and if you think we weren't this terrible to start the year you didn't watch the games......from the very first game the announcers have chanted the same mantra..."Vick can't sustain that many hits" and it was echoed by Ray Didinger from the very first game.....the very first game and every game after that...that is simple fact......and it wasn't from holding the ball too long though on occasion it has happened but that was more the exception than the norm....again an issue that even their beat writers admitted to after reviewing the game tapes.....

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 18 2012, 03:19 PM) *
It is not defending Vick, it is pointing out what you just said but are apparently too obtuse to realize.....the entire blame this season has centered on Vick here and any effort to paint the real reason being a depleted and ineffective O line has been hashed over in a zealous attempt to demonize Vick. He may suck but my point has always been that the O line sucking made any evaluation impossible because he has been running for his life for 2 seasons. Even last year was terrible but just not as bad because he had some help from Peters to limit his need to run on every down within the first 2 seconds.

Add to that the horrendous play calling and you have a no win situation for any QB. The issue here is not me defending Vick, I could care less about him. The issue here is identifying what this offense has become and the real reasons for it.

and if you think we weren't this terrible to start the year you didn't watch the games......from the very first game the announcers have chanted the same mantra..."Vick can't sustain that many hits" and it was echoed by Ray Didinger from the very first game.....the very first game and every game after that...that is simple fact......and it wasn't from holding the ball too long though on occasion it has happened but that was more the exception than the norm....again an issue that even their beat writers admitted to after reviewing the game tapes.....

I don't think anyone is blaming one thing for this team being terrible. We have a bad roster, devastated by injury on the Oline. With that said, Vick has zero awareness or play recognition. You can tell just by the playcalling we are seeing today just how limited Vick is.
I didn't say we weren't terrible early. I said we've only gotten worse. But great QB's are able to mitigate that. Vick is far from that.
xsv
Hahaha!

For a guy who's nickname here is 'reality fan', it's odd that your perception seems to be based entirely on fantasy.

No one here has even done any such thing, fantasy fan.



QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 18 2012, 02:19 PM) *
It is not defending Vick, it is pointing out what you just said but are apparently too obtuse to realize.....the entire blame this season has centered on Vick here and any effort to paint the real reason being a depleted and ineffective O line has been hashed over in a zealous attempt to demonize Vick. He may suck but my point has always been that the O line sucking made any evaluation impossible because he has been running for his life for 2 seasons. Even last year was terrible but just not as bad because he had some help from Peters to limit his need to run on every down within the first 2 seconds.

Add to that the horrendous play calling and you have a no win situation for any QB. The issue here is not me defending Vick, I could care less about him. The issue here is identifying what this offense has become and the real reasons for it.

and if you think we weren't this terrible to start the year you didn't watch the games......from the very first game the announcers have chanted the same mantra..."Vick can't sustain that many hits" and it was echoed by Ray Didinger from the very first game.....the very first game and every game after that...that is simple fact......and it wasn't from holding the ball too long though on occasion it has happened but that was more the exception than the norm....again an issue that even their beat writers admitted to after reviewing the game tapes.....

Rick
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 18 2012, 02:19 PM) *
It is not defending Vick, it is pointing out what you just said but are apparently too obtuse to realize.....the entire blame this season has centered on Vick here and any effort to paint the real reason being a depleted and ineffective O line has been hashed over in a zealous attempt to demonize Vick.

Not sure where you're reading this. I don't think anyone here has been disagreeing this line sucks. Vick does, in fact, suck, but this whole TEAM sucks. Doesn't change Vick sucking.

I don't think anyone ever blamed this season on Vick himself. He had a hand in putting us on the path to what we've seen now but so did the coaching, line, defense, special teams, etc. Heck, I think the bus driver might even be somewhat to blame. Don't know why but...
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 18 2012, 02:03 PM) *
yep....Foles looks terrific....it had to be Vick........what a fucking joke


Don't waste your time. And as for the playcalling. It wasn't the limited skill set of Vick. It was THE SUCKITUDE OF ANDY REID AND MARTY MORNHINWEG FINALLY COMING TO A HEAD!!!!!!

I'm so glad for this implosion. So glad. Maybe now we will finally have a new start.
SAM I Am
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 18 2012, 02:03 PM) *
yep....Foles looks terrific....it had to be Vick........what a fucking joke

I guess we'll find out next year when vick is playing for his new team.
JeeQ
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 18 2012, 11:03 AM) *
yep....Foles looks terrific....it had to be Vick........what a fucking joke


I have a feeling certain people are going to get real quiet
Reality Fan
QUOTE (xsv @ Nov 18 2012, 02:30 PM) *
Hahaha!

For a guy who's nickname here is 'reality fan', it's odd that your perception seems to be based entirely on fantasy.

No one here has even done any such thing, fantasy fan.



you of all people should look in the mirror....you are the prime candidate for this.....what is truly funny id that you make that claim when you have a host of posts to make you look like the one who is in fantasy land
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Rick @ Nov 18 2012, 02:32 PM) *
Not sure where you're reading this. I don't think anyone here has been disagreeing this line sucks. Vick does, in fact, suck, but this whole TEAM sucks. Doesn't change Vick sucking.

I don't think anyone ever blamed this season on Vick himself. He had a hand in putting us on the path to what we've seen now but so did the coaching, line, defense, special teams, etc. Heck, I think the bus driver might even be somewhat to blame. Don't know why but...


Like I said even if the "I hate Vick" folks tend to miss it.....I don't know if Vick sucks or not....his early success with this team can't be ignored just as his latest run can't be. The simple reality of it is that he has had zero chance to prove which season was the real Vick 10 or 11. This season has been a nightmare from the start with his protection and the playcalling with a horrible O-line. Now if you are saying no one here has blamed him then you are either delusional or just don't want to admit it, for some here like X that has been virtually the only reason early on and still the prime reason to date. He only had a hand in it to the point where he has tried to do too much to make up for the 2 real reasons this team has tanked...make it 3 because Lurie is as much to blame making an idiotic statement to start the season announcing his coach is a lame duck regardless of the truth of the statement you take away any leverage or respect that coach had.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Dr. Claw @ Nov 18 2012, 04:22 PM) *
Don't waste your time. And as for the playcalling. It wasn't the limited skill set of Vick. It was THE SUCKITUDE OF ANDY REID AND MARTY MORNHINWEG FINALLY COMING TO A HEAD!!!!!!

I'm so glad for this implosion. So glad. Maybe now we will finally have a new start.

Yes, finally coming to a head after 13 years. Not because Vick is terrible and can't read a defense.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 18 2012, 02:25 PM) *
I don't think anyone is blaming one thing for this team being terrible. We have a bad roster, devastated by injury on the Oline. With that said, Vick has zero awareness or play recognition. You can tell just by the playcalling we are seeing today just how limited Vick is.
I didn't say we weren't terrible early. I said we've only gotten worse. But great QB's are able to mitigate that. Vick is far from that.


and what playcalling today showed how limited Vick is? did I miss something...did Foles rack up 30 points? 20 points?

are you crazy?...the way the offense ran today showed Vick was limited? unreal.....257 yds against the defense that had only 6 teams behind it in yards allowed?....that showed how limited Vick was...great point...terrific insight...I rest my case
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 18 2012, 06:26 PM) *
and what playcalling today showed how limited Vick is? did I miss something...did Foles rack up 30 points? 20 points?

are you crazy?...the way the offense ran today showed Vick was limited? unreal.....257 yds against the defense that had only 6 teams behind it in yards allowed?....that showed how limited Vick was...great point...terrific insight...I rest my case


No, the types of plays called. The screen game, specifically. The offense was terrible because we have a mediocre rookie playing.

I'm one of the few people around here who didn't want to start Foles over Vick. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with me. Vick is terrible, Foles isn't any better. Our line sucks. This shit isn't mutually exclusive.

The point is that we do actually have coaches that are capable of designing and calling screen plays. For whatever reason, Vick is incapable of capitalizing on them. He can't recognize a blitz, despite being in the NFL for 10 years. That's his problem.

So again, what case are you resting? Vick doesn't suck because our line does? No, man. They both suck. Using the struggles of a 3rd round rookie to "rest your case" is another feeble attempt by you to prove your smarter than everyone else. It's still not working.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 18 2012, 05:39 PM) *
No, the types of plays called. The screen game, specifically. The offense was terrible because we have a mediocre rookie playing.

I'm one of the few people around here who didn't want to start Foles over Vick. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with me. Vick is terrible, Foles isn't any better. Our line sucks. This shit isn't mutually exclusive.

The point is that we do actually have coaches that are capable of designing and calling screen plays. For whatever reason, Vick is incapable of capitalizing on them. He can't recognize a blitz, despite being in the NFL for 10 years. That's his problem.

So again, what case are you resting? Vick doesn't suck because our line does? No, man. They both suck. Using the struggles of a 3rd round rookie to "rest your case" is another feeble attempt by you to prove your smarter than everyone else. It's still not working.


ok....follow this simple logic.....you, me or any other idiot on here have no idea if Vick is good or sucks with this offense and offensive line because we have not seen even a modicum of decent play.....Vick is guilty of trying to do too much, no question. His positives are good speed and a great arm and a very good thrown ball, the negatives are terrible awareness of blindside blitzes, ball security and an overestimation of his speed.

By the way, he threw 3 picks in the last 7 games he played in Mr. He cant read defense. The only difference in him was he simply said "fuck it, if these idiots put me in this position I will stop taking risks and run this shitty offense Marty calls"

When he has protection he has done well, the offense in general has sucked so I can't say Vick has sucked, he has made some unreal throws. Using your logic I could say that every skill player is terrible and have plenty of instances to prove my point, McCoy included.......
HobbEs
Vick sucked with a healthy line last year. He sucked even worse this year...before we lost Herremans and Kelce. The turnovers speak for themselves and his play this year has been putrid. I find it hard to believe you're still defending him.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Nov 18 2012, 09:40 PM) *
Vick sucked with a healthy line last year.


Yes, yes, a thousands times yes. Thank you for pointing out the most obvious rebuttal which was eluding everyone not buying RF's garbage.
xsv
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 18 2012, 05:11 PM) *
you of all people should look in the mirror....you are the prime candidate for this.....what is truly funny id that you make that claim when you have a host of posts to make you look like the one who is in fantasy land


LOL. Dead wrong, again, as usual. It amazes me how often you are dead wrong.

I spread blame around liberally, as anyone many people here will tell you. Would you like me to link a few dozen posts of mine where I spread blame around? Or do you want to just own up to how stupid your post here was?

No one, not even me, singularly blames Vick for this mess. Reid, is obviously the main problem.

But, Vick still sucks. You just don't like it when anyone criticizes your idol, starship 7.


HobbEs
QUOTE
Yes, yes, a thousands times yes. Thank you for pointing out the most obvious rebuttal which was eluding everyone not buying RF's garbage.


This is just the tip of the iceberg...
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 18 2012, 08:51 PM) *
Yes, yes, a thousands times yes. Thank you for pointing out the most obvious rebuttal which was eluding everyone not buying RF's garbage.


my garbage? really.....they had the 8th ranked offense....really terrible...4th in yards....9th in passing yards and I am the fool.......what was it? 5 blown 4th quarter leads were Vicks fault...I forgot.....and I provide garbage....go back to your stupidity of Vick limiting the offense.......the screen pass worked fine last year with him and Shady and Peters blocking....none of that happened though....oh wait...yes it did

Lemmings.....
Reality Fan
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Nov 19 2012, 09:09 AM) *
This is just the tip of the iceberg...



birds of a feather......
Reality Fan
QUOTE (xsv @ Nov 18 2012, 09:43 PM) *
LOL. Dead wrong, again, as usual. It amazes me how often you are dead wrong.

I spread blame around liberally, as anyone many people here will tell you. Would you like me to link a few dozen posts of mine where I spread blame around? Or do you want to just own up to how stupid your post here was?

No one, not even me, singularly blames Vick for this mess. Reid, is obviously the main problem.

But, Vick still sucks. You just don't like it when anyone criticizes your idol, starship 7.


I like your logic...."if I say it it is fact".....glad that works for you....you have been the anti Vick all year...and as usual you trot out the stupiidity of "my idol"...I could not give a rats ass about Vick......was never a big fan and don't care where he goes next....I just look at what actually happens on the field without getting all misty eyed about it. You are apparently to ignorant to read and understand what I posted. I admit he may very well suck but we have not had a chance to find out this year. There is no denying that while some here say he sucked the numbers the Eagles put up with him were in the top 10 in passing, scoring and yards. You can deny that but you would look even dumber and that is in a bad year. You can deny they blew 5 4th quarter leads and again you would look even dumber so he did something right last year. Those are simple facts. Now you can say he played poorly to start the year and I agree but he started with a bad line and it got worse immediately.

Simple facts but to the ignorant facts are garbage...I get that....
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 19 2012, 10:51 PM) *
my garbage? really.....they had the 8th ranked offense....really terrible...4th in yards....9th in passing yards and I am the fool.......what was it? 5 blown 4th quarter leads were Vicks fault...I forgot.....and I provide garbage....go back to your stupidity of Vick limiting the offense.......the screen pass worked fine last year with him and Shady and Peters blocking....none of that happened though....oh wait...yes it did

Lemmings.....

No, it was his 20 turnovers that did it for me. So along with his very slightly above average passing stats, he was an average QB.

He was below the league average in completion %, TD %, and well below in Int %.

So...average QB play results in...you guessed it, an average record. This year, he's well below average in every single passing stat. You can see it for yourself. Not surprisingly, we are a bad football team.

Yes, he limits the offense. That's a product of him not being able to identify blitzes.

We've had lots of problems the past two years. And Vick has been one of them.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Nov 18 2012, 08:40 PM) *
Vick sucked with a healthy line last year. He sucked even worse this year...before we lost Herremans and Kelce. The turnovers speak for themselves and his play this year has been putrid. I find it hard to believe you're still defending him.



and now for this work of genius....see the above...no wait...I will recount for you Einstein.....top ten in yards, points and passing so I guess he really sucked last year.....and before we lost..I realize some here ignore facts....Kelce was gone....remember we started 2-0 and Kelce got hurt in the 2nd game, a game we won on a Vick run with under 3 minutes to play but hey, don't let any of these facts get in the way.....and are you saying Herremans played well this year? really?

and then you wonder why people stereotype eagle fans.....
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 19 2012, 10:09 PM) *
No, it was his 20 turnovers that did it for me. So along with his very slightly above average passing stats, he was an average QB.

He was below the league average in completion %, TD %, and well below in Int %.

So...average QB play results in...you guessed it, an average record. This year, he's well below average in every single passing stat. You can see it for yourself. Not surprisingly, we are a bad football team.

Yes, he limits the offense. That's a product of him not being able to identify blitzes.

We've had lots of problems the past two years. And Vick has been one of them.


I love how you ignore all those numbers AND 5 blown 4th quarter leads..........and what QB with this line would be anything but terrible?

and there were 13 other Qbs with as many or more INTs as Vick last year.

But you miss the point as well.....I don't know if he is good or bad because there is evidence for both arguments. I will say the no QB could run what this offense has become and certainly not with this line...not Manning or Brady....it is pretty simple..

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 19 2012, 11:23 PM) *
I love how you ignore all those numbers AND 5 blown 4th quarter leads..........and what QB with this line would be anything but terrible?

I'm not ignoring anything. As I said, our team has lots of problems. That doesn't mean Vick isn't one of them.

QUOTE
and there were 13 other Qbs with as many or more INTs as Vick last year.

Well golly gee! 13 whole QB's when there are only 32 teams in the league. That means that about 18 had fewer than him! That means he was...worse than the middle of the pack. Which is exactly what I said.

QUOTE
But you miss the point as well.....I don't know if he is good or bad because there is evidence for both arguments. I will say the no QB could run what this offense has become and certainly not with this line...not Manning or Brady....it is pretty simple..

Please save yourself by not using the words Manning or Brady in a conversation about Vick. You're not doing yourself any favors.

The point, as Hobbes clearly pointed out, was that despite the solid line play last year and the fact that he put up a bunch of numbers (although as I pointed out, they weren't nearly as good as you're making them out to be) he was average and our team was average. It's no coincidence.

So we don't need to look at the line this year and wonder how great he could have been otherwise. We know exactly how he would have been. Just about average. And that's not good enough.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 19 2012, 10:32 PM) *
I'm not ignoring anything. As I said, our team has lots of problems. That doesn't mean Vick isn't one of them.


Well golly gee! 13 whole QB's when there are only 32 teams in the league. That means that about 18 had fewer than him! That means he was...worse than the middle of the pack. Which is exactly what I said.


Please save yourself by not using the words Manning or Brady in a conversation about Vick. You're not doing yourself any favors.

The point, as Hobbes clearly pointed out, was that despite the solid line play last year and the fact that he put up a bunch of numbers (although as I pointed out, they weren't nearly as good as you're making them out to be) he was average and our team was average. It's no coincidence.

So we don't need to look at the line this year and wonder how great he could have been otherwise. We know exactly how he would have been. Just about average. And that's not good enough.


see...here is where it is hard not to call you an idiot.......I said Manning or Brady would not do well with this offense and this line this year and you take that to mean I compare them with Vick.....idiocy......

and I don't make the numbers out to be anything, I mention where the team offense that he led ranked in the league...now you wanted to be a smartass with your dumbass wooeee...well wooeee...top ten in the main offensive categories means 2/3 of the league was behind the offense he led...see how that works wooeee...

what was below average was the defense's ability to hold late leads even though they ended the season well.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 19 2012, 11:55 PM) *
see...here is where it is hard not to call you an idiot.......I said Manning or Brady would not do well with this offense and this line this year and you take that to mean I compare them with Vick.....idiocy......

There was no point in bringing up either of those two guys. I can just as easily say that they would be more than capable behind this line, because they're able to identify blitzes and make defenses pay.

See how that works. My hypothetical scenario is just as provable as yours.

QUOTE
and I don't make the numbers out to be anything, I mention where the team offense that he led ranked in the league...now you wanted to be a smartass with your dumbass wooeee...well wooeee...top ten in the main offensive categories means 2/3 of the league was behind the offense he led...see how that works wooeee...

You're making them out to prove that he was good last year. He wasn't. He was average. His personal numbers indicate that.

His average numbers combined with Shady's spectacular numbers led to an above average offensive numbers.

QUOTE
what was below average was the defense's ability to hold late leads even though they ended the season well.

Yes, it was far below average. But I've already admitted that. We have lots of problems. And Vick is one of them. Not sure why you're having such a hard time admitting it.

While you're bashing the defense, you don't seem to be pointing out that they were 8th in yards and 10th in points last year. I don't blame you for not pointing that out those. Because those numbers are empty and irrelevant. Just like the offensive numbers you're praising Vick for.
xsv


The simple fact is that you specifically said in this post that...
QUOTE
...the entire blame this season has centered on Vick here


Not a single poster in this entire forum places the entire blame on Vick. Not a single poster here has every said that Vick is even the largest contributor to our woes. That's just your typical Fantasy Fan garbage spewed nonsense.

Face, it. You like to make shit up just to stir the pot. I don't really mind that much, but don't put words in my mouth. The main problem with this team is Reid. I have maintained that since week 3 of last year when I put up my 'Fire Andy' avatar.

Vick sucks, but it's much less of the 'entire blame'
xsv
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 19 2012, 10:13 PM) *
and now for this work of genius....see the above...no wait...I will recount for you Einstein.....top ten in yards, points and passing so I guess he really sucked last year.....and before we lost..I realize some here ignore facts....Kelce was gone....remember we started 2-0 and Kelce got hurt in the 2nd game, a game we won on a Vick run with under 3 minutes to play but hey, don't let any of these facts get in the way.....and are you saying Herremans played well this year? really?

and then you wonder why people stereotype eagle fans.....


Yes, really. Vick sucked last year. And yes, we started 2-0, and Vick sucked worse this year. Amazing to me that you can watch this guy fail to play qb, turn the ball over 6 times (or was it 9?) in two games, make terrible decisions all game long and think, wow, this guy is good!


HobbEs
QUOTE
Yes, really. Vick sucked last year. And yes, we started 2-0, and Vick sucked worse this year. Amazing to me that you can watch this guy fail to play qb, turn the ball over 6 times (or was it 9?) in two games, make terrible decisions all game long and think, wow, this guy is good!


I believe it was 6 turnonvers in two games and the teams we barely beat are also horrible. Vick's decision making is bad but Andy doesn't do him any favors. I'm not sticking up for Vick in any way...he still sucks but combined with Andy we have suckage squared.
xsv
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Nov 20 2012, 09:25 AM) *
I believe it was 6 turnonvers in two games and the teams we barely beat are also horrible. Vick's decision making is bad but Andy doesn't do him any favors. I'm not sticking up for Vick in any way...he still sucks but combined with Andy we have suckage squared.


Suckage Squared! LOL

Post of the year nominee.
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Nov 20 2012, 09:25 AM) *
I believe it was 6 turnonvers in two games and the teams we barely beat are also horrible. Vick's decision making is bad but Andy doesn't do him any favors. I'm not sticking up for Vick in any way...he still sucks but combined with Andy we have suckage squared.


The 8-2 Ravens are horrible?
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Dr. Claw @ Nov 20 2012, 11:24 AM) *
The 8-2 Ravens are horrible?


No they're contenders. But we pounded Shady, and we all know what happens when he carries a certain amount of times.....*sigh*
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 19 2012, 10:55 PM) *
see...here is where it is hard not to call you an idiot.......I said Manning or Brady would not do well with this offense and this line this year and you take that to mean I compare them with Vick.....idiocy......


see: the "Jeff Garcia" argument in the '06 season. He would have been another "Vick" if we had hung on to him as our starter then.

I agree though. Andyball as called by Marty Mornhinweg is stale. with that line and the way it's played (on which Andyball really depends, as we've now seen), it's a hazard.

There is not a QB in the league that can play in this crap and make it work. Might as well be the rookie, because regular season wins do us no favors at this point.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Nov 20 2012, 09:25 AM) *
I believe it was 6 turnonvers in two games and the teams we barely beat are also horrible. Vick's decision making is bad but Andy doesn't do him any favors. I'm not sticking up for Vick in any way...he still sucks but combined with Andy we have suckage squared.



against the 8-2 Ravens he threw 2 picks, no question but he also threw for 371 yards and a TD and ran for 1 and in a game winning drive he threw for 54 of those yards....but the Ravens are horrible?

The funny part is I agree Vick has made some terrible decisions....no question. Where we differ is I don't think it is from ability(ir lack thereof) I think it is more from the situation he is in and his overestimation of his ability on his part.....He thinks he is able to do this on his own and he never was and with this group there is not QB alive who could even in their prime. I blame most of the woes on the playcalling. Marty said they would not change a thing with all the injuries and I thought that was gamesmanship but he was serious. The sad fact is you don't race thoroughbreds with a plow horse. Apparently Andy and Marty just don't face facts that well. We have a ton of talent but Jackson becomes muted if there is no time to throw. Maclin has grown a vagina and the mental twins refuse to adapt......that is why we are where we are. A healthy line next year for a coach who won;t throw the ball 50 times a game and you should see an amazing turnaround. They have talent on O but the D will need both FA help and a few draft picks. Safety has to be front and center.
HobbEs
QUOTE
I blame most of the woes on the playcalling.


Now you're catching on kid. But it goes deeper than just the play calling. It's the play design as well. All the seven step drops and deeper routes...where are the hot routes against the blitz? Where are the outlet passes? How many times have we seen two receivers clogging up the same area of the field? I won't even touch on the running game.

I'm not a Vick fan but I really feel sorry for him somtimes. He's getting the crap beat out of him every game...no wonder it leads to some bad decisons. Vick's time here is up and hopefully Andy is next.
CT_Eagle
Damn, talk about using selective memory to try and make a point. People here have been bitching about the line since the first week. Did you not read any of it? Hell, I even called Vick, the OL and Reid an Unholy Trinity on this board after the first or second game. Sorry RF but you just have not been paying attention to what has been posted on this board.
D Rock
Vick Sux.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Nov 21 2012, 09:28 AM) *
Damn, talk about using selective memory to try and make a point. People here have been bitching about the line since the first week. Did you not read any of it? Hell, I even called Vick, the OL and Reid an Unholy Trinity on this board after the first or second game. Sorry RF but you just have not been paying attention to what has been posted on this board.


selective memory? what the fuck are you talking about? or have you been drinking.....no shit the O line has been the subject of much malign here, hell...I have been doing it for the entire season....that is my point about Vick......only an idiot would start with the QB as the problem with this line. What I am trying to figure out what my selective memory is? I said they suck, I have said they suck from the start and my whole point in this thread was that Vick may suck but we have had no chance to see if the Vick of 10' or the Vick of 11' was the real Vick because from the get go this year he was brutalized(and if you watched the first 4 games and missed the announcers belaboring said point than you are deaf or stupid and blind due to all the replays to make their point)

My other point was merely pointing out that Vick was not as bad as many here point out running this offense so even 11' was not that bad. Had the D held the lead in even 2 of the 5 4th quarter losses then Vick would not be the one demonized.

Either way I can't wait for him to be gone to see who the new scapegoat will be.

Resume drinking if you haven't passed out by now.......lol
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 22 2012, 09:45 PM) *
selective memory? what the fuck are you talking about?

Can you stop this madness? You said,
QUOTE
the entire blame this season has centered on Vick here and any effort to paint the real reason being a depleted and ineffective O line has been hashed over in a zealous attempt to demonize Vick.
Everyone else is simply pointing out that this isn't true. Most of the blame has centered around Reid, a lot around the OLine, tons around the defense, plenty around Vick, a lot around the roster/GM.
That's the whole point. There is tons of blame to go around. Vick is getting his fair share...with good reason, but hardly the entire blame. And likely not even the most.

If you want to say he deserves no blame, just do so. I'll disagree with you, but it sounds like that's the point you are trying to make.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 23 2012, 08:38 AM) *
Can you stop this madness? You said,Everyone else is simply pointing out that this isn't true. Most of the blame has centered around Reid, a lot around the OLine, tons around the defense, plenty around Vick, a lot around the roster/GM.
That's the whole point. There is tons of blame to go around. Vick is getting his fair share...with good reason, but hardly the entire blame. And likely not even the most.

If you want to say he deserves no blame, just do so. I'll disagree with you, but it sounds like that's the point you are trying to make.



I have nothing to add to this at all. RF made the statement, I called him on it and his response to me was made as if he never made the original statement. My original "selective memory" statement stands and has even been confirmed by RF's response.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Nov 23 2012, 11:20 AM) *
I have nothing to add to this at all. RF made the statement, I called him on it and his response to me was made as if he never made the original statement. My original "selective memory" statement stands and has even been confirmed by RF's response.



ok...now I get the silliness.......I guess for the mental midgets in the room I should have said that 87% of the blame was laid on Vick's shoulders. Reid was blamed...for going with Vick......was entire the wrong choice of words? ok..I grant you that so try this one on...the overwhelming recipient through the first 7 weeks was Vick. Was there mention of others? sure, and they had about 4 responses and went away......There is no question that Vick was the target of the lion share of the blame but I guess you both feel that a quick mention of a bad line or poor coaching followed by 20 threads of "vick sucks" is equal.....you must be msnbc fans
xsv
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 25 2012, 08:12 PM) *
ok...now I get the silliness.......I guess for the mental midgets in the room I should have said that 87% of the blame was laid on Vick's shoulders. Reid was blamed...for going with Vick......was entire the wrong choice of words? ok..I grant you that so try this one on...the overwhelming recipient through the first 7 weeks was Vick. Was there mention of others? sure, and they had about 4 responses and went away......There is no question that Vick was the target of the lion share of the blame but I guess you both feel that a quick mention of a bad line or poor coaching followed by 20 threads of "vick sucks" is equal.....you must be msnbc fans


LOL, Fantasy Fan.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 26 2012, 02:12 AM) *
ok...now I get the silliness.......I guess for the mental midgets in the room I should have said that 87% of the blame was laid on Vick's shoulders. Reid was blamed...for going with Vick......was entire the wrong choice of words? ok..I grant you that so try this one on...the overwhelming recipient through the first 7 weeks was Vick. Was there mention of others? sure, and they had about 4 responses and went away......There is no question that Vick was the target of the lion share of the blame but I guess you both feel that a quick mention of a bad line or poor coaching followed by 20 threads of "vick sucks" is equal.....you must be msnbc fans



I never realized you would be so sensitive to being called out for posting something that was just plain wrong. You must be one of those guys who cannot ever admit they made a mistake. I will leave you alone with your attempt to spin it with "87%" this and "4 responses" that. You did exactly what I accused you of, cherry picked the posts you wanted and used them to paint the entire board with a single broad brush. For what? So you could stand on a soap box and tell all of the posters who discussed the failures of Vick, the OL and Reid that only you knew it was more than Vick? Have fun up there. I have enough of these types of conversations with my 9 year old and I am done with this one.
xsv
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Nov 26 2012, 04:55 PM) *
I never realized you would be so sensitive to being called out for posting something that was just plain wrong. You must be one of those guys who cannot ever admit they made a mistake. I will leave you alone with your attempt to spin it with "87%" this and "4 responses" that. You did exactly what I accused you of, cherry picked the posts you wanted and used them to paint the entire board with a single broad brush. For what? So you could stand on a soap box and tell all of the posters who discussed the failures of Vick, the OL and Reid that only you knew it was more than Vick? Have fun up there. I have enough of these types of conversations with my 9 year old and I am done with this one.


I love how he correlates the number of posts made to the percentage of blame placed, completely disregarding the 'Fire Andy' avatars and signatures everyone has had here for the last 2 years.




mcnabbulous
QUOTE (xsv @ Nov 26 2012, 06:15 PM) *
I love how he correlates the number of posts made to the percentage of blame placed, completely disregarding the 'Fire Andy' avatars and signatures everyone has had here for the last 2 years.

Not to mention the natural tendency of everyone to discuss QB play more than any other element of on-field action.
xsv
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Nov 26 2012, 06:18 PM) *
Not to mention the natural tendency of everyone to discuss QB play more than any other element of on-field action.


And the fact that we like to talk about him because.. well, he's an asshole.
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