Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: am I the only one?
Eagles Forum > Philadelphia Eagles Message Board > Philadelphia Eagles or Football Related Discussion
D Rock
I am extremely disappointed that Vick is still our starter. I was hoping to have something different to watch this sunday. I honestly don't think I can stomach any more of the Mike Vick "show."

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 30 2012, 01:40 PM) *
I am extremely disappointed that Vick is still our starter. I was hoping to have something different to watch this sunday. I honestly don't think I can stomach any more of the Mike Vick "show."


I tend to agree with you, but I also recognize the only chance we have of winning this year is Vick catching fire. So I'm still pathetically holding on to that hope.

Please note that I acknowledge the likelihood of said firing catching is slim to none.
D Rock
I refuse to accept that it's a given Foles can't win because he's a rookie. Look at the success of the rookie QBs this year. Hell, since Matty Ice and Joe Flacco have come into the league, rookies have tended towards success overall.

Vick is a known commodity, which is to say . . . "He Sux."

Foles might suck, but I think it faulty logic to assume that's the case simply because he's a rookie.

mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 30 2012, 03:47 PM) *
I refuse to accept that it's a given Foles can't win because he's a rookie. Look at the success of the rookie QBs this year. Hell, since Matty Ice and Joe Flacco have come into the league, rookies have tended towards success overall.

Vick is a known commodity, which is to say . . . "He Sux."

Foles might suck, but I think it faulty logic to assume that's the case simply because he's a rookie.


I don't necessarily think he'll suck, just that there I zero chance of a SB with him at the helm as a rookie. With Vick, we have at least a .000001 chance if he catches fire. Like I said, I'm not counting on it. Just not quite ready to completely give up on the season.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 30 2012, 09:58 PM) *
I don't necessarily think he'll suck, just that there I zero chance of a SB with him at the helm as a rookie. With Vick, we have at least a .000001 chance if he catches fire. Like I said, I'm not counting on it. Just not quite ready to completely give up on the season.

I admire your faith. But the fact is, we've got zero chance of a SB. (period) We're a .500 team at best with Ron "Dirty Sanchez" Mexico under center. 27 turn overs in his last 22 starts. How much bigger a data set do you need?

We know we aint doing shit this year. I'll take my chances with the unknown over a known shit head. It's the same logic most would use with regards to our coach next year. If that logic is good enough to switch coaches (and it is), it's good enough to switch QBs IMO.
Dreagon
Well, I think you guys have reached the point where somebody needs to ask the question..."Will we be paying Micheal Vick big money to be our starting quarterback next year...and if not, why is he still starting now?"
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Oct 30 2012, 08:04 PM) *
Well, I think you guys have reached the point where somebody needs to ask the question..."Will we be paying Micheal Vick big money to be our starting quarterback next year...and if not, why is he still starting now?"



there is NO QUESTION that Vick is gone after this season. he has no untapped potential for greatness. he never did and everyone knows that now

the reason he is still the starter is because its unlikely that foles right now will win enough games in this league. we know Vick's limitations but he can and will win games in this league (lack of greatness notwithstanding)

coaches start a rook when they and the team knows that losing games while the rook has growing pains is acceptable. AR will not be given an allowance for that at season's end.

he may very well start foles at some point this season if Vick is losing games for him. Vick (while sucking ass) did not lose the game vs ATL. if Vick starts turning the ball over again and losing games we should have won, AR will go to Foles out of desperation.....not because he will win more games

in short.....benching Vick means that AR is throwing himself on the mercy of the owner to accept the losses (and potential) from Foles as a foundation for bringing him back next year. Vick will have to play a lot worse than he did vs ATL for that to happen
D Rock
Again. Rookies are having unprecedented success at the qb position over the pat few years. It's illy to assume the kid would do any worse than the human turnover machine simply because he's a rookie.

We now Vick is a lame duck. Do we wanna know if Foles can play? Why make week 1 next season his first start when we can get him some valuable starts now?
mcnabbulous
I think it's a bit premature to try to get Foles experience just for the sake of doing so. 2-3 more weeks of struggles still gives him a significant opportunity to showcase himself.


I'm too lazy to look it up, but didn't we have to wait until like week 10 for Donnie's first start?
Eyrie
QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 30 2012, 09:22 PM) *
I admire your faith. But the fact is, we've got zero chance of a SB. (period) We're a .500 team at best with Ron "Dirty Sanchez" Mexico under center. 27 turn overs in his last 22 starts. How much bigger a data set do you need?

We know we aint doing shit this year. I'll take my chances with the unknown over a known shit head. It's the same logic most would use with regards to our coach next year. If that logic is good enough to switch coaches (and it is), it's good enough to switch QBs IMO.


QUOTE (Dreagon @ Oct 31 2012, 12:04 AM) *
Well, I think you guys have reached the point where somebody needs to ask the question..."Will we be paying Micheal Vick big money to be our starting quarterback next year...and if not, why is he still starting now?"

I think the two of you may have convinced me to go with Foles right now.


QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 31 2012, 04:21 AM) *
I think it's a bit premature to try to get Foles experience just for the sake of doing so. 2-3 more weeks of struggles still gives him a significant opportunity to showcase himself.


I'm too lazy to look it up, but didn't we have to wait until like week 10 for Donnie's first start?

Sounds about right, although watching Vick this year is bad enough without you reminding everyone of Doug Pederson. What is he doing these days anyway?
xsv
Not only is Vick a turnover waiting to happen, he's also still holds the ball longer then 29 other starting QBs in this league.

The thing I really like about Foles was how decisive he was. Three step drop and as soon as his back foot hit the ground the ball was out. Less than 2 seconds, which is much closer to the league average than Vick's 3 seconds. Not to mention that he's supposed to absolutely uncanny in his accuracy. We saw a little of that in preseason, but I'd like to see more of it.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (xsv @ Oct 31 2012, 08:40 AM) *
Not only is Vick a turnover waiting to happen, he's also still holds the ball longer then 29 other starting QBs in this league.

The thing I really like about Foles was how decisive he was. Three step drop and as soon as his back foot hit the ground the ball was out. Less than 2 seconds, which is much closer to the league average than Vick's 3 seconds. Not to mention that he's supposed to absolutely uncanny in his accuracy. We saw a little of that in preseason, but I'd like to see more of it.

After looking at this week's all-22, I'm more and more convinced that Vick has become gun shy due to all the early season picks.

He still makes the occasional poor decision/throw, but he simply is afraid to take shots because he doesn't want to make a mistake.

If he's simply a lost cause, it makes sense to move on from him. Either that or he needs to play like he's got nothing to lose and just go all-in.
xsv
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 31 2012, 01:06 PM) *
After looking at this week's all-22, I'm more and more convinced that Vick has become gun shy due to all the early season picks.

He still makes the occasional poor decision/throw, but he simply is afraid to take shots because he doesn't want to make a mistake.

If he's simply a lost cause, it makes sense to move on from him. Either that or he needs to play like he's got nothing to lose and just go all-in.


I'm not sure that he was getting rid of the ball quick enough early in the season either. Or all of last year for that matter. The stat I saw has his average at over 3 seconds per attempt to get rid of the ball over the entire season last year, which was over a second more than the NFL average and 30th in the NFL. This year, he's a hair under 2 second per attempt, and still almost last in that ranking.

It's really kinda odd. You would think that with an oline as bad as our he would be getting rid of the ball faster, not slower.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (xsv @ Oct 31 2012, 02:08 PM) *
I'm not sure that he was getting rid of the ball quick enough early in the season either.

I'm not even talking about his time in getting rid of the ball. That comes down to not seeing things on the field fast enough.

I'm talking about his decision to not even throw it when people are open, and he appears to see them.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 31 2012, 08:32 PM) *
I'm not even talking about his time in getting rid of the ball. That comes down to not seeing things on the field fast enough.

I'm talking about his decision to not even throw it when people are open, and he appears to see them.

6 in one. Half dozen the other. The result is the same. A .500 team at best with Senior Mexico under center.

YUCK.

huh.gif
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 31 2012, 02:35 PM) *
6 in one. Half dozen the other. The result is the same. A .500 team at best with Senior Mexico under center.

YUCK.

huh.gif

I think being afraid to throw to open guys is more troubling than holding the ball too long. It's the ultimate sign his confidence is shot.

Either way, if that trend continues, he's done.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 31 2012, 03:51 PM) *
Either way, if that trend continues, he's done.

Stick a fork in him. he can go find his "mojo" somewhere else. Buffalo may be looking for a replacement for their overpriced turnover machine, he would fit right in. Put the rookie in and see if he is of the same calibre as the rest of his QB draft mates. According to Trent Dilfer (who is a much better analyst than he ever was at QB) Foles is the real deal:

QUOTE
“Foles has as good of pocket instincts & climb as any SPREAD QB I have studied the past 10 years. Doesn’t lock on #1 & bail early.”


QUOTE
He said he had “NEVER seen a QB this good get LESS help from his teammates. If Foles was in the SEC he would be a Heisman finalist.”


Pass the Torch: Nick Foles cements legacy as one of Pac-12’s best quarterbacks ever
D Rock
Lookit me, lookit me !!!

I agree with Phits.

cheers.gif
mcnabbulous
Yeah, I saw another Dilfer tweet comparing him to Bradford. Said he has less of an arm, but more accurate and better instincts. The accuracy is damn impressive, as that was Bradford's best trait.
Eyrie
The lack of an arm would actually be a benefit as it would force our super-genius head coach and his mini-me offensive co-ordinator to stay away from the home run balls and focus on quick shorter passes which would alleviate some of the problems caused by the injuries to Peters and Kelce.

Since the consensus is that Foles makes quick decisions, then gets the ball out quickly and accurately I've come round to thinking he is the better fit for us right now than Vick.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Nov 1 2012, 06:43 AM) *
The lack of an arm would actually be a benefit as it would force our super-genius head coach and his mini-me offensive co-ordinator to stay away from the home run balls and focus on quick shorter passes which would alleviate some of the problems caused by the injuries to Peters and Kelce.

Within the context of this season, the idea that we're relying heavily on home run balls is a total myth. Especially in recent weeks.

QUOTE
Since the consensus is that Foles makes quick decisions, then gets the ball out quickly and accurately I've come round to thinking he is the better fit for us right now than Vick.

I can't argue with this. Vick seems like he may be done. I think he has one more loss until that chord is cut.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 30 2012, 06:40 PM) *
I am extremely disappointed that Vick is still our starter. I was hoping to have something different to watch this sunday. I honestly don't think I can stomach any more of the Mike Vick "show."


I am still without power so I will make this brief.

I think Reid has to ride Vick to the end. Reid's job is on the line this season and Vick still gives him the best chance to win right now. Foles is a project at this point. If Reid were looking to the future, Foles would be his man.
Phits
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Nov 1 2012, 11:49 AM) *
I am still without power so I will make this brief.

I think Reid has to ride Vick to the end. Reid's job is on the line this season and Vick still gives him the best chance to win right now. Foles is a project at this point. If Reid were looking to the future, Foles would be his man.

Agreed. My opinion is that we should start Foles now, but the reality is that AR (probably) feels Vick gives him a better opportunity to win some games.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 1 2012, 10:57 AM) *
Agreed. My opinion is that we should start Foles now, but the reality is that AR (probably) feels Vick gives him a better opportunity to win some games.

I think this is what it comes down to. One of the casualties of having a lame duck coach. We don't put ourselves in position to do what may be best long-term.
Eyrie
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Nov 1 2012, 03:49 PM) *
I am still without power so I will make this brief.

Puts the Eagles problems in perspective. Hope there's no damage and everything gets fixed soon.

QUOTE (Phits @ Nov 1 2012, 03:57 PM) *
Agreed. My opinion is that we should start Foles now, but the reality is that AR (probably) feels Vick gives him a better opportunity to win some games.

Much as I want Reid gone, I'd grab the wins even if it means another year with him at the helm.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Nov 2 2012, 10:25 AM) *
Puts the Eagles problems in perspective. Hope there's no damage and everything gets fixed soon.


Everyone and everything made it through the storm with no damage. Just some trees in the area took down some lines. The good news is that at about 7:30pm last evening, the power came back.

Thank you for your concern Eyrie.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2017 Invision Power Services, Inc.