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jeremyrt
I had a thought as I was watching the Eagles dominate the Cardinals on Sunday....oh wait....

I had a thought as I was watching Vick scratch his ass off the field on Sunday...

What happened to the Eagles screen pass? With Westbrook it was a thing of beauty....this year there's nothing. They've tried some with Shady...some with Celek, and they've been lucky to get 3 yards. Does Peters injury have to do with this? Is it the O-line struggles, or are teams prepared for that and shadowing?

mcnabbulous
Westbrook was that good at executing. Igglesblog did a post about all of our passes from last Sunday. He highlights an example of Shady not taking advantage of a great opportunity.
samaroo
It's seemed to me that we haven't run the screen near as much the last few years. I seem to remember it being a huge part of our O 6-8 years ago.
Pbfan
QUOTE (samaroo @ Sep 28 2012, 12:34 AM) *
It's seemed to me that we haven't run the screen near as much the last few years. I seem to remember it being a huge part of our O 6-8 years ago.


I think it also has to do with the fact that Vick can scramble out of a blitz much better than mcnabb could so there is less reason for the dump pass.
BirdsWinBaby
shady isnt as good at catching as Bwest and Vick/OL doesnt sell the screen well...its over too fast at all 3 stages to fool anybody IMO

1)at the snap it seems the OL lets rushers thru too fast instead of selling the block for a tick or so before releasing. 2)quick as a dart,(perhaps to not get killed) Vick takes snap, sprints away from the line and gets ready for the throw to shady. given his size and rushers coming at him its harder for him to drop a pass over/around the rushers. 3)shady is most often still engaged when Vick is ready to throw or just releasing which means the second level of the defense is around him
samaroo
Yeah, I get it, but I'd still be more comfortable if we exchanged 6-8 long passes a game for screens.

Of course, I'd REAAAAALLLLYY like to exchange some passes for runs, but I'll take what I can get...
Rick
I don't buy Shady not being as good a catcher as an excuse nor do I buy that Vick can scramble or our O line isn't selling it. I believe it's more stupid play calling by Reid. You can't tell me the Eagles have the ONLY O line in the NFL which can't fake block for a screen. Shady is far and away a good enough receiver for screen passes and, at this point, Vick isn't really any better at scrambling than McNabb was as Vick has (obviously) lost a couple of steps.

When a team is all about rushing your QB, you run screens and draws to slow down the rush a bit. We used to run them all of the time, now, I see one or two a game. Just stupid when you've got a guy like Shady with the moves he has in the open field. Of course, one of those the other day was Celek in the middle of traffic with no blockers. Huh?

Just another example that Reid seems to have no clue as to how to call an offense.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Rick @ Sep 29 2012, 08:22 AM) *
Just another example that Reid seems to have no clue as to how to call an offense.


cheers.gif

I was gonna say this, but I didn't feel like having my 15th back-and-forth this week. You can handle this thread sir.
TGryn
I'm probably going to end up repeating this point something like 15 times in different posts through the rest of the season, but its hard to underestimate what losing Peters and Kelce has done to the offense. They were both guys who could get out on screens, and the falloff to their replacements in that area is dramatic.

Also, considering Mudd's reputation as a wonder worker with the OL, the pass protection for Vick so far has been underwhelming:
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (Rick @ Sep 29 2012, 08:22 AM) *
When a team is all about rushing your QB, you run screens and draws to slow down the rush a bit. We used to run them all of the time, now, I see one or two a game. Just stupid when you've got a guy like Shady with the moves he has in the open field. Of course, one of those the other day was Celek in the middle of traffic with no blockers. Huh?

Just another example that Reid seems to have no clue as to how to call an offense.


nobody will call me a AR fan but this isnt about playcalling. its execution. screens only slow down rushers when they WORK. consider...

Eagles/Cards- 9:36 1st qtr: Screen was setup well. DL was engaged Shady was open and there were three blockers in front and three LBs. 2 blockers took 2 LBs but #63 inexplicably DID NOT block the last LB instead choosing to block an DL that was already engaged. Shady has to dance to avoid LB and is tackled from behind. 4yds

8:02 1st qtr: tried to setup screen by having OL shift one way and Vick rolls out to the other after PA and throws across the field to avant. took too long to develop, Vick takes sack. the blocking was laughable. #77 was literally standing in the middle of the field confused because he had nobody to block. the guy he was supposed to block and let go was on top of Vick. -11yds

2:01 2nd qtr: Shady sells his block so the WILL waits. of course when shady waggles out a little and turns back to Vick the WILL sees it and covers the 7yds between them by the time Shady has the ball. -1yds

1:13 2nd qtr: actually setup well. Celek sells his block and is open with blockers in front of him when he gets ball. unfortunately his "blockers" dont do anything and Celek has nowhere to go. 2yds

1:29 3rd qtr: remember how well that play worked at 8:02? well we must try that one again eh? Vick doesnt notice or care about the defenders stacked to the side he intends to roll out to. throw in some half-assed PA that nobody is buying and its another sack. and another -12yds

3:08 4th qtr: defense was teeing off at this point so the pressure got thru the line before the screen to jackson could develop. incomplete

thats 6 plays for -18yds. with this kind of production you simply cant keep calling these plays. screens are supposed to make defenses pay for being too aggressive. when this team runs screens thats not what happens. DCs will will just keep coming. and they will get results.

TG is right tho....they miss Peters
samaroo
I get that Kelce and Peters out hurts us. It's the Midnight Green Curse...never to start a season with a healthy line!!!

But surely you can't use play results out of context as absolute proof? What were the situations? I can't watch the games, being deployed right now, so I can't really argue against it. It just seems to me like most of your examples scream "bad play call" rather than "poor execution." Blockers standing around doing nothing is obviously bad, but 4 of the plays seem like typical Dandy Andy play calls, i.e., PA rollout screens and whatnot.

I'm not trying to say you're wrong, per se, just that it seems like we're looking at it from different angles, I guess.
koolaidluke
QUOTE (Rick @ Sep 29 2012, 08:22 AM) *
I don't buy Shady not being as good a catcher as an excuse


Correll Buckhalter had about 1 millionth of the talent of Westbrook and he had no problem running the screen pass. So yeah, I doubt that McCoy can't run the play.

It's just not a big part of what the Eagles do anymore, for whatever reason.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Sep 30 2012, 03:09 AM) *
Correll Buckhalter had about 1 millionth of the talent of Westbrook and he had no problem running the screen pass. So yeah, I doubt that McCoy can't run the play.

It's just not a big part of what the Eagles do anymore, for whatever reason.


Buckhalter was very good, just spent 90% of his career injured. Westbrook was much better though.
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