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HOUSEoPAIN
The spread was GB -3.5 last night. I would assume the majority of bettors would've taken GB.

That last play, an obvious interception called a TD, allowed Seattle to cover.

People are starting to talk more loudly about this, the eerie ways some teams are covering or not covering at the last second. Personally, I would be shocked if these refs weren't on the dole from Tony the Shark in Vegas.
koolaidluke
I don't think there's anything to it

Fuck the real refs
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Sep 25 2012, 08:28 AM) *
The spread was GB -3.5 last night. I would assume the majority of bettors would've taken GB.

That last play, an obvious interception called a TD, allowed Seattle to cover.

People are starting to talk more loudly about this, the eerie ways some teams are covering or not covering at the last second. Personally, I would be shocked if these refs weren't on the dole from Tony the Shark in Vegas.

I don't bet on the NFL because I've always perceived the fix to be in. Does it seem much worse this year than usual?
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 25 2012, 09:38 AM) *
I don't bet on the NFL because I've always perceived the fix to be in. Does it seem much worse this year than usual?


Yes, much worse. A couple weeks ago nobody was talking because it was week 1 and crazy shit always happens in week 1, a new season, new good/bad teams, etc. But now whispers are becoming loud talking, I don't think there's any doubt about last night, especially considering how blatantly bad two crucial calls were for GB in the last drive by Seattle.

The integrity of the game is usually unquestioned, the real danger is a ref making 2 or 3 'unprovable' calls that can change an entire game by killing mutiple drives, killing or making a 2 minute drill, such as holding, pass interference, etc. At minimum, real refs know how to do such a thing without making it obvious.

For the record, I was done betting this year after week 2. I'll wait until the real refs come back.
Phits
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Sep 25 2012, 09:29 AM) *
I don't think there's anything to it

Fuck the real refs

KAL, things are really out of hand when you are one of the few voices of reason.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 25 2012, 09:04 AM) *
KAL, things are really out of hand when you are one of the few voices of reason.

Which should tell you everything you need to know about your opinion on the subject.

A fucking ref told Shady to pick up his game because he had him on his fantasy team. The shit is a total joke.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 25 2012, 10:10 AM) *
A fucking ref told Shady to pick up his game because he had him on his fantasy team. The shit is a total joke.

I call BS. Shady got his nickname because he was full of shit and was a questionable character....just ask his mama.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 25 2012, 10:04 AM) *
KAL, things are really out of hand when you are one of the few voices of reason.


Things are really out of hand when I'm agreeing with McNabbulous and you're agreeing with KAL.

I have no problem whatsoever believing that someone who was a Division III college ref a month ago plays fantasy football and would say something like that to Shady - and might let a holding call slip on a big run by him.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Sep 25 2012, 09:31 AM) *
Things are really out of hand when I'm agreeing with McNabbulous and you're agreeing with KAL.

I have no problem whatsoever believing that someone who was a Division III college ref a month ago plays fantasy football and would say something like that to Shady - and might let a holding call slip on a big run by him.

Phits made up his mind before the season that the old refs sucked and these refs wouldn't be any worse. Despite empirical evidence to the contrary, he's holding firm.

Yet he despises Reid for being stubborn and unable to change...

JeeQ
The House ALWAYS Wins & The Fix Is ALWAYS In. These refs have no allegiance or loyalty to anyone. They could have this job for one week and be gone the next. It'd be utterly naive to believe they're not getting into side action/betting and I don't even blame them.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 25 2012, 10:41 AM) *
Phits made up his mind before the season that the old refs sucked and these refs wouldn't be any worse. Despite empirical evidence to the contrary, he's holding firm.

...because regular officials don't f*ck up .

Ask Ed Hochuli (NFL veteran official) if he has ever blown a call or made a questionable/controversial game deciding call. How about the forward pass in Music City Miracle or the obscure "tuck rule"...botched coin toss on Thanksgiving (The Bus calls tails, it comes up tails and the ref gives the coin toss to the opposition)...on and on and on.

It wasn't enough that instant replay and coaches challenges were needed to mitigate the mistakes of the regular referees, they need to review every scoring play to make sure the referee's get them right.

Under the circumstances the replacements are doing as good a job as could be expected and with more actual game time experience they will go on to be real ass-hat screw ups like the regular referees.

QUOTE
Yet he despises Reid for being stubborn and unable to change...

Once again, for the umpteenth time, I don't despise Reid. He has worn out his welcome and doesn't appear to be capable of making the necessary adjustments to make this team a SB winner. After 14 years....time to move on.
Reality Fan
ugh...now I am agreeing with Phits......lol

it goes by the wayside that instant replay was brought in and expanded because the regular officials were so fucking bad......and now they want a cushy contract on their terms......talk about the inmates running the asylum....what really eats my ass is the networks carrying the games and their announcers crying ad nauseum about the new refs......if I am the NFL I am starting to let the networks know that I have my own network now and I can start a few more channels and eventually put all my games on my own channels and fuck them royally...
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 25 2012, 12:29 PM) *
ugh...now I am agreeing with Phits......lol

it goes by the wayside that instant replay was brought in and expanded because the regular officials were so fucking bad

Instant replay was brought in because why the fuck wouldn't you bring instant replay in. We have high definition tv's and the people at home were constantly allowed better angles than the guys on the field.

The regular guys are imperfect, but what we're seeing is how difficult the job is. At least those guys knew the fucking rules. This shit is a joke.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 25 2012, 11:13 PM) *
Instant replay was brought in because why the fuck wouldn't you bring instant replay in. We have high definition tv's and the people at home were constantly allowed better angles than the guys on the field.

The regular guys are imperfect, but what we're seeing is how difficult the job is. At least those guys knew the fucking rules. This shit is a joke.

same shit. different toilet.
make_it_rain
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 26 2012, 12:06 AM) *
same shit. different toilet.


No, it's not. I'll ask again:


  • When was the last time you saw a crew award a team an extra time-out (Seattle vs. Arz)?
  • When was the last time you saw a crew allow a coach to challenge a play with no timeouts, then after the challenge is successful, award the team a FOURTH timeout? (San Fran vs. Minn)
  • When was the last time you saw commentators and analysts literally exasperated at how much the shitty officiating has ruined the games (Did you see Steve Young's outburst last night? It was a thing of beauty)
  • When was the last time a coach was ALLOWED to challenge a play they were not allowed to challenge(which is usually a 15yd penalty, StL vs. Wash)
  • When was the last time officials FORGOT to stop the clock after an incomplete pass, letting 29 seconds run off the clock at the end of the half? (Cin vs. Cle)
  • When was the last time an official awarded an EXTRA 12 yards on a 15 yard penalty, turning it into a 27 yard penalty?(Det vs. Ten)


I'm not even going to say anything about the disgrace that was the Green Bay game. Oh, and all of this happened in the FIRST 3 WEEKS of this season
Phits
when was the last time they screwed up a coin toss? How about the "tuck rule"? immaculate reception? If you want more blown calls you can youtube it or google it yourself

You know who Mike Pereira is? Yeah well every week he gets paid to trot himself in front of the cameras and explain the latest gaffes by the regular officials. That's right a network pays some dude (former head of officiating) to explain the controversial calls that regular officials make.

Your ability to identify recent mistakes is commendable, can you tell me about a blown call against the Eagles prior to this season? or is it your contention that the regular officials never make big mistakes? Ed Hochuli would disagree

Let's not forget that the regualr officials are the reason why instant replay was implemented AND the reason that every scoring play is subject to review.

QUOTE (make_it_rain @ Sep 26 2012, 09:46 AM) *
No, it's not. I'll ask again:


  • When was the last time you saw a crew award a team an extra time-out (Seattle vs. Arz)?
  • When was the last time you saw a crew allow a coach to challenge a play with no timeouts, then after the challenge is successful, award the team a FOURTH timeout? (San Fran vs. Minn)
  • When was the last time you saw commentators and analysts literally exasperated at how much the shitty officiating has ruined the games (Did you see Steve Young's outburst last night? It was a thing of beauty)
  • When was the last time a coach was ALLOWED to challenge a play they were not allowed to challenge(which is usually a 15yd penalty, StL vs. Wash)
  • When was the last time officials FORGOT to stop the clock after an incomplete pass, letting 29 seconds run off the clock at the end of the half? (Cin vs. Cle)
  • When was the last time an official awarded an EXTRA 12 yards on a 15 yard penalty, turning it into a 27 yard penalty?(Det vs. Ten)


I'm not even going to say anything about the disgrace that was the Green Bay game. Oh, and all of this happened in the FIRST 3 WEEKS of this season
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 25 2012, 11:13 PM) *
Instant replay was brought in because why the fuck wouldn't you bring instant replay in. We have high definition tv's and the people at home were constantly allowed better angles than the guys on the field.

The regular guys are imperfect, but what we're seeing is how difficult the job is. At least those guys knew the fucking rules. This shit is a joke.


why wouldn't you bring it in you ask? because the regular refs fought it tooth and nail but unlike the criminal baseball union they didn't have the muscle to stop it....I agree...it should be available for every call with 3 guys in the booth watching everything....the other reason was TV did not want to slow the game down but that is the price you pay for accuracy....

I don't fault the guys on the field, they are trying to learn on the fly but the NFL should have the booth stuffed with guys to help make sure the rule and spot are enforced properly......and with some sense of speed
Phits
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 26 2012, 11:18 AM) *
I don't fault the guys on the field, they are trying to learn on the fly but the NFL should have the booth stuffed with guys to help make sure the rule and spot are enforced properly......and with some sense of speed

It's only week 3, things will improve. I'm not sure how many people are perfect at their jobs less than 20 working days after starting. Even McDonald's gives you 3 months probation. The uproar is simply a result of media propaganda and all the lemmings are falling for it. some even point out individual gaffes from games as evidence....forgetting the past transgressions of the "regular" officials.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 26 2012, 10:28 AM) *
It's only week 3, things will improve. I'm not sure how many people are perfect at their jobs less than 20 working days after starting. Even McDonald's gives you 3 months probation. The uproar is simply a result of media propaganda and all the lemmings are falling for it. some even point out individual gaffes from games as evidence....forgetting the past transgressions of the "regular" officials.

The problem isn't the gaffes. The problem is not knowing the rules. That's what you're missing here.

If a McDonald's employee mixed bleach in the milkshakes cause he didn't know the recipe, they'd can his ass.
make_it_rain
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 26 2012, 11:15 AM) *
when was the last time they screwed up a coin toss? How about the "tuck rule"? immaculate reception? If you want more blown calls you can youtube it or google it yourself

You know who Mike Pereira is? Yeah well every week he gets paid to trot himself in front of the cameras and explain the latest gaffes by the regular officials. That's right a network pays some dude (former head of officiating) to explain the controversial calls that regular officials make.

Your ability to identify recent mistakes is commendable, can you tell me about a blown call against the Eagles prior to this season? or is it your contention that the regular officials never make big mistakes? Ed Hochuli would disagree

Let's not forget that the regualr officials are the reason why instant replay was implemented AND the reason that every scoring play is subject to review.


Ok, I'll give you that the Tuck Rule and Immaculate Reception were two absolutely terrible calls, both made by regular referees. I never said the regular officials were perfect, just that they are far, far superior to the crews they have calling games now.

Again though, all of those atrocious calls I listed happened in the first three weeks of this season alone. Are you honestly trying to argue that regular officials make the same amount of gaffes that have this degree of influence on the game, with the same frequency?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ Sep 26 2012, 10:47 AM) *
Ok, I'll give you that the Tuck Rule and Immaculate Reception were two absolutely terrible calls, both made by regular referees. I never said the regular officials were perfect, just that they are far, far superior to the crews they have calling games now.

The tuck rule was a "terrible call" only in the sense that the rule is stupid. But it is the rule.

Much like Calvin Johnson's non-TD catch a few seasons ago (last year?)

The old guys knew the rules, without question. These guys don't.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 26 2012, 11:44 AM) *
The problem isn't the gaffes. The problem is not knowing the rules. That's what you're missing here.

If a McDonald's employee mixed bleach in the milkshakes cause he didn't know the recipe, they'd can his ass.

I am not missing anything. You are simply exaggerating greatly. They know the rules. For you to suggest otherwise is ignorance in itself. The problem is that the NFL isn't defending the replacements with fines and other punishments. Coaches and players feel as though they can bully the refs and are pushing the boundaries. The NFL should green light the unsportsmanlike penalty for coaches/players that push the buttons. You would see how quickly they get back in line.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 26 2012, 11:50 AM) *
The tuck rule was a "terrible call" only in the sense that the rule is stupid. But it is the rule.

Much like Calvin Johnson's non-TD catch a few seasons ago (last year?)

Much like the Seattle TD. Controversial, yes. However, it was the right call, as evidenced by the NFL and the replay officials to uphold the ruling.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 26 2012, 11:20 AM) *
I am not missing anything. You are simply exaggerating greatly. They know the rules. For you to suggest otherwise is ignorance in itself.


No, this is an example of them clearly not knowing the rules. And being manipulated by the home coach. Another thing of note is the disparity between penalties called on away teams vs. home teams.

These guys are overmatched. It's not their fault, but it's real.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 26 2012, 11:22 AM) *
Much like the Seattle TD. Controversial, yes. However, it was the right call, as evidenced by the NFL and the replay officials to uphold the ruling.

Or, as evidenced by the fact that apparently an agreement has been reached in principle, they got it wrong.

It wasn't overturned because there wasn't evidence to overturn it. Not because they got it right. You're just embarrassing yourself now.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 26 2012, 12:42 PM) *
It wasn't overturned because there wasn't evidence to overturn it.

so there was no clear evidence to the contrary. which makes it a 'controversial call' but not an incorrect call.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 26 2012, 11:55 AM) *
so there was no clear evidence to the contrary. which makes it a 'controversial call' but not an incorrect call.

No.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 26 2012, 12:35 PM) *
No, this is an example of them clearly not knowing the rules. And being manipulated by the home coach.

No, that's mixing up the call. Regular refs do it all the time. We have seen this a bazillion times over the years.

QUOTE
Another thing of note is the disparity between penalties called on away teams vs. home teams.

This has always been the case.....ever hear of home field advantage?
make_it_rain
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 26 2012, 12:59 PM) *
No, that's mixing up the call. Regular refs do it all the time. We have seen this a bazillion times over the years.


This has always been the case.....ever hear of home field advantage?


Congratulations on being the only person in America besides Goodell to think that the refs in the Green Bay game got the call right.

Ok, at this point i'm going to go ahead and just assume Phits is either trolling or works in PR for the NFL, because no one can be this ignorant.

http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/0...ough-two-weeks/

QUOTE
So far this season, there have been 231 penalties against visiting teams and only 188 penalties against the hosts. That ratio road teams having to deal with 23% more penalties is far out of line with historical data, which informs us that road teams had 7% more penalties enforced against them than home teams from 2000 to 2011


But yeah you're right, it's all a big coincedence....real refs, replacement refs, what's the difference? We should all stop being such sheep and listening to the media.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ Sep 26 2012, 01:32 PM) *
Congratulations on being the only person in America besides Goodell to think that the refs in the Green Bay game got the call right.


Goodell doesn't think it's the right call though.....he's just determined to bust the referee union. So Phits is the only one.
Phits
The comparative data remains inconclusive. Did you think a new NFL referee was going to make every call and get it right? what are the numbers for a new 'permanent' referee? There is a learning curve or did you expect perfect imperfection from the start?

3 games into the season....talk about unrealistic expectations. Our HC can't get playcalling right after 14 years yet replacement refs are expected to be without fault or controversy after 3 friggin regular season games.

huh.gif

Yep....sheep.

QUOTE (make_it_rain @ Sep 26 2012, 01:32 PM) *
Congratulations on being the only person in America besides Goodell to think that the refs in the Green Bay game got the call right.

Ok, at this point i'm going to go ahead and just assume Phits is either trolling or works in PR for the NFL, because no one can be this ignorant.

http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/0...ough-two-weeks/



But yeah you're right, it's all a big coincedence....real refs, replacement refs, what's the difference? We should all stop being such sheep and listening to the media.

make_it_rain
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 26 2012, 02:17 PM) *
The comparative data remains inconclusive. Did you think a new NFL referee was going to make every call and get it right? what are the numbers for a new 'permanent' referee? There is a learning curve or did you expect perfect imperfection from the start?


huh.gif

Yep....sheep.


Where did I say the replacements were supposed to be perfect? I expected them to be bad, but not this bad.

It's been pointed out through several examples that its very possible with these guys on the field there's at least one or two guys in the crew who simply do not know the rules, or are at the very least familiar with the vast majority of them. That is unacceptable, and now it has both directly and indirectly affected the outcome of a game.
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