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Reality Fan
I mean seriously, did you see how poorly he covered Fitzgerald and he can't pass block to save his life and fumble a punt? terrible....and drop an interception? He is the worst safety/lb.cb.defensive lineman I have ever seen and he can't get open in coverage.....hard to believe....

and yes....this is as ridiculous as all the chicken little chatter today...... tongue.gif
xsv
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 24 2012, 12:45 PM) *
I mean seriously, did you see how poorly he covered Fitzgerald and he can't pass block to save his life and fumble a punt? terrible....and drop an interception? He is the worst safety/lb.cb.defensive lineman I have ever seen and he can't get open in coverage.....hard to believe....

and yes....this is as ridiculous as all the chicken little chatter today...... tongue.gif


I didn't see him do any of that but I did see him hold the ball too long, continue to turn the ball over too often, make bad throws and make bad decisions with the ball.

Defending him is about as ridiculous as saying that Andy has a good looking mustache.
Birdman420
lol people going for vick's head already, It's laughable to think that the game was his fault
HobbEs
Sure, let's keep Vick in there. He's a turnover machine this year... huh.gif
D Rock
For each TD thrown so far this year, Vick has tossed 3 (THREE) ints and coughed up a fumble. 3 (THREE) ints and a fumble per TD pass does not a good quarterback performance make.

For those keeping score at home, that's 4 turnovers for each TD pass. Fucking Gold Standard all the way.
mcnabbulous
Here's the reality. We are probably not winning a SB with Vick as the QB of this team this year.

We are definitely not winning a SB with Foles as our QB this year.

Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 24 2012, 02:46 PM) *
Here's the reality. We are probably not winning a SB with Vick as the QB of this team this year.

We are definitely not winning a SB with Foles as our QB this year.

I think you meant to say......

We are definitely not winning a SB with Reid as our HC.

I feel the same way.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 24 2012, 06:46 PM) *
Here's the reality. We are probably not winning a SB with Vick as the QB of this team this year.

We are definitely not winning a SB with Foles as our QB this year.


I am pretty close with you on this. Just change the "probably" with Vick to "definitely" like you did with Foles and my agreement would be 100%.

To me the real question is do you ride Vick the rest of the season and hope for a playoff birth or do you hand the ball to Foles and begin to find out if he can be the long term solution at QB? We only have a few pre-season games to measure Foles with so at this point so we really have no idea of what we have with him. Me personally, I am ready to move on and see what we have in Foles. I do not care about the early exit from the playoffs that Vick may provide. I am more interested in finding out if Foles can evolve into our franchise QB for the next 10 years of if we have to address that position in an upcoming draft.
xsv
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 24 2012, 02:46 PM) *
Here's the reality. We are probably not winning a SB with Vick as the QB of this team this year.

We are definitely not winning a SB with Foles as our QB this year.



At this point, I think the reality is that both of these guys have about the same chance.

0%

The real question is, who do you start over with? If we're going to make rookie mistakes at QB, I'd just as soon it be with a real rookie.
mcnabbulous
Andy Reid has a job to keep, if he wants the chance to see what Foles long-term potential is....

Vick gives us the best chance of winning right now. If we catch fire late in the year, anything can happen. It looks pretty grim right now, though.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 24 2012, 01:56 PM) *
At this point, I think the reality is that both of these guys have about the same chance.

0%

That's simply not true. Just last week, we beat a team that almost went to the SB last season. We always play better in the second half of the season.

We're capable of beating any team in football, but we absolutely need to get much better.
xsv
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 24 2012, 02:54 PM) *
or do you hand the ball to Foles and begin to find out if he can be the long term solution at QB?


Bingo! It's not like the light bulb usually comes on in a QBs 11th year and they learn then how to get rid of the ball faster and make better decisions.





P.S. - OK, Randall might have been the exception to this.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 24 2012, 06:49 PM) *
I think you meant to say......

We are definitely not winning a SB with Reid as our HC.

I feel the same way.


I should have added this in my post. I don't think the Eagles will ever win a SB with Reid at the helm either.
xsv
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 24 2012, 02:58 PM) *
That's simply not true. Just last week, we beat a team that almost went to the SB last season. We always play better in the second half of the season.

We're capable of beating any team in football, but we absolutely need to get much better.


If it's not true with Vick, then it's not true with Foles either. Last week, Vick played better than he did in the first week and this week, but no where close to playing like he needs to play to make a deep run.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 24 2012, 02:00 PM) *
If it's not true with Vick, then it's not true with Foles either. Last week, Vick played better than he did in the first week and this week, but no where close to playing like he needs to play to make a deep run.

A rookie QB isn't winning a SB. I just think the panic in week 3 is a bit over the top.
Phits
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 24 2012, 02:59 PM) *
Bingo! It's not like the light bulb usually comes on in a QBs 11th year and they learn then how to get rid of the ball faster and make better decisions.





P.S. - OK, Randall might have been the exception to this.

it starts with proper coaching and game planning to the strengths of your team. From there you know whether the sum of your parts is adequate to win with.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 24 2012, 07:01 PM) *
A rookie QB isn't winning a SB. I just think the panic in week 3 is a bit over the top.


I don't think anyone is under the impression that Foles would even lead us to the playoffs much less the SB. At least I have not seen anyone post anything like that.

The playoffs are not the reason for bringing in Foles. The whole point of bringing in Foles now is to start the evaluation process in order to determine if he is a long term solution at QB.
xsv
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 24 2012, 03:01 PM) *
A rookie QB isn't winning a SB. I just think the panic in week 3 is a bit over the top.


Neither is Vick.

The difference is, Foles might actually be able to play well enough to get there in a year or two.

Vick won't.




mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 24 2012, 02:06 PM) *
I don't think anyone is under the impression that Foles would even lead us to the playoffs much less the SB. At least I have not seen anyone post anything like that.

The playoffs are not the reason for bringing in Foles. The whole point of bringing in Foles now is to start the evaluation process in order to determine if he is a long term solution at QB.

And I'm sure the same crowd would be willing to give Andy the benefit of realizing that a rookie QB is playing and expectations need to be adjusted...

Andy needs to win this year. Vick gives us the best chance to do that at this point. Maybe those chances are minimal, but they're still better than with Foles.
xsv
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 24 2012, 03:14 PM) *
Vick gives us the best chance to do that at this point.


Sorry, but with the *exact same* play calling, I would bet that Foles would have better than a 66.2 passer rating.

Vince Young would have had better than a 66.2 passer rating. Well, maybe not Vince Young, but almost anyone else!

The point is, with even just an average day, say upper 70's qb rating, and yesterday is a much closer game.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 24 2012, 07:14 PM) *
And I'm sure the same crowd would be willing to give Andy the benefit of realizing that a rookie QB is playing and expectations need to be adjusted...

Andy needs to win this year. Vick gives us the best chance to do that at this point. Maybe those chances are minimal, but they're still better than with Foles.


I can't speak for anyone else but my hope would be that Lurie lets Reid follow Vick out of town during the off-season. That doesn't mean expectations should not be lowered though. Anyone who thinks a rookie QB is not going to struggle is deluding themselves. There are very few QBs that adapt quickly to the NFL and most them are highly mobile which can get them out of a lot of bad situations. Foles is not that type of QB.

You see something in Vick that gives you a glimmer of hope for this season's prospects. I see nothing but an early exist from the playoffs and I am tired of that ending.

I am going to state this one more time because I don't want to have to respond to an opinion I do not hold. Foles will struggle and I will not be giving Andy a pass because of it. I was done with Reid years ago and I look forward to the day that he is no longer the HC.
Phits
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 24 2012, 03:25 PM) *
I am going to state this one more time because I don't want to have to respond to an opinion I do not hold. Foles will struggle and I will not be giving Andy a pass because of it. I was done with Reid years ago and I look forward to the day that he is no longer the HC.

Ditto
D Rock
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 24 2012, 08:01 PM) *
it starts with proper coaching and game planning

and ends with a quarterback that turns the ball over 3 times for every touchdown pass.
JeeQ
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 24 2012, 12:25 PM) *
I can't speak for anyone else but my hope would be that Lurie lets Reid follow Vick out of town during the off-season. That doesn't mean expectations should not be lowered though. Anyone who thinks a rookie QB is not going to struggle is deluding themselves. There are very few QBs that adapt quickly to the NFL and most them are highly mobile which can get them out of a lot of bad situations. Foles is not that type of QB.

You see something in Vick that gives you a glimmer of hope for this season's prospects. I see nothing but an early exist from the playoffs and I am tired of that ending.

I am going to state this one more time because I don't want to have to respond to an opinion I do not hold. Foles will struggle and I will not be giving Andy a pass because of it. I was done with Reid years ago and I look forward to the day that he is no longer the HC.


Just want to echo your sentiments. As far as I'm concerned and have been saying since before the season started this absolutely has to be the last chance for Reid/Vick. Honestly Reid should've been let go after 8-8 last season. We've been in a steady decline ever since McNabb left town (11-5, 10-6, 8-8). I like Foles, but if you think inserting a 3rd Round Rookie QB is suddenly going to turn this failing system into a winning one you're clearly insane. Vick took 21 hits yesterday, why would you want your rookie (future QB) taking a punishment like that? If anything a rookie QB will give opposing defenses even more incentive to crash the line. Why Foles will fail will be the same reason why countless other Eagles QBs have. Andy will never make the adjustments needed to be successful. He will always be out-coached and out-classed by teams with adaptability. Because of this it doesn't matter who are QB is.
xsv
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Sep 24 2012, 05:19 PM) *
Just want to echo your sentiments. As far as I'm concerned and have been saying since before the season started this absolutely has to be the last chance for Reid/Vick. Honestly Reid should've been let go after 8-8 last season. We've been in a steady decline ever since McNabb left town (11-5, 10-6, 8-8). I like Foles, but if you think inserting a 3rd Round Rookie QB is suddenly going to turn this failing system into a winning one you're clearly insane. Vick took 21 hits yesterday, why would you want your rookie (future QB) taking a punishment like that? If anything a rookie QB will give opposing defenses even more incentive to crash the line. Why Foles will fail will be the same reason why countless other Eagles QBs have. Andy will never make the adjustments needed to be successful. He will always be out-coached and out-classed by teams with adaptability. Because of this it doesn't matter who are QB is.


Not defending Andy here, becuase the playcalling still sucked.

But without Vicks turnovers, the game yesterday would have been much different. I'm not saying we would have won, but it would have been much, much closer.

Put a QB in there that takes care of the ball better, and I think we've got a better chance of covering up Reids lousy playcalling.


HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 24 2012, 05:24 PM) *
Put a QB in there that takes care of the ball better, and I think we've got a better chance of covering up Reids lousy playcalling.


We had that, for almost a decade, one of the best td-int ratios ever - and even with that 'fraud' we couldn't win the SB.

D Rock
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Sep 24 2012, 09:37 PM) *
We had that, for almost a decade, one of the best td-int ratios ever - and even with that 'fraud' we couldn't win the SB.

Because he couldn't keep down the chunky soup in crunch time. Damn it Andy.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (D Rock @ Sep 24 2012, 05:38 PM) *
Because he couldn't keep down the chunky soup in crunch time. Damn it Andy.


Haha.

Well the fat guy puking on the field is the closest we've been since.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Sep 24 2012, 04:37 PM) *
We had that, for almost a decade, one of the best td-int ratios ever - and even with that 'fraud' we couldn't win the SB.

And don't forget that he did throw two* picks on the big stage, one that definitely cost us points.

*I won't count the third that happened in desperation time.
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 24 2012, 03:30 PM) *
Ditto


and this makes three. People seem to think that Andy is the lesser of two evils here... that's BS.

I actually agree w/mcnabbulous is that there's way too much "sky is falling" stuff going on. it's week freakin' 3. Eagles were 1-2 at this point last year.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Dr. Claw @ Sep 24 2012, 06:10 PM) *
I actually agree w/mcnabbulous is that there's way too much "sky is falling" stuff going on. it's week freakin' 3. Eagles were 1-2 at this point last year.

And one of our wins was against a team many consider to be one of the best in football.

How about people take a step back and realize that Arizona might just be a damn good team. Clearly they are on defense.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 24 2012, 11:11 PM) *
And one of our wins was against a team many consider to be one of the best in football.

How about people take a step back and realize that Arizona might just be a damn good team. Clearly they are on defense.

2 & 1 = a good thing.

9 turn overs from your quarterback (12 overall) vs. 3 TD passes on the other hand, leads to some degree of "sky is falling."

But as others have suggested . . . win next week vs. the VaGiants and this one will be pretty much forgotten.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ Sep 24 2012, 07:25 PM) *
2 & 1 = a good thing.

9 turn overs from your quarterback (12 overall) vs. 3 TD passes on the other hand, leads to some degree of "sky is falling."

But as others have suggested . . . win next week vs. the VaGiants and this one will be pretty much forgotten.


ain't that the truth......

I am still laughing at this thread........I think was able to step into one throw in the game.....it seems Mudd's blocking scheme is geared toward running the ball and not passing because yesterday was brutal.........worst line protection I have seen in ages....as I said in another thread the announcers in every game talk about Vick getting hit every play and some of it is holding the ball but most of it is turnstile blocking...

interesting stat mentioned yesterday....he gets knockdown 3 times the NFL average.......yep....that is his fault......

and no one has said anything about how shitty Vick covered Fitzgerald........lol

this loss reminded me of the pasting we gave San Fran with Steve Young........they went on to 13-3 and the SB and we won 7 games. We beat the hell out of them and held Young to 151 yds, 2 picks and a fumble..........they were a better team but their team was shit that day...


It was one game and clearly a bad game plan......very bad game plan.......very, very bad game plan.....
D Rock
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 24 2012, 11:39 PM) *
ain't that the truth......

I am still laughing at this thread........I think was able to step into one throw in the game.....it seems Mudd's blocking scheme is geared toward running the ball and not passing because yesterday was brutal.........worst line protection I have seen in ages....as I said in another thread the announcers in every game talk about Vick getting hit every play and some of it is holding the ball but most of it is turnstile blocking...

interesting stat mentioned yesterday....he gets knockdown 3 times the NFL average.......yep....that is his fault......

and no one has said anything about how shitty Vick covered Fitzgerald........lol

this loss reminded me of the pasting we gave San Fran with Steve Young........they went on to 13-3 and the SB and we won 7 games. We beat the hell out of them and held Young to 151 yds, 2 picks and a fumble..........they were a better team but their team was shit that day...


It was one game and clearly a bad game plan......very bad game plan.......very, very bad game plan.....

Protection was not nearly as bad as is being suggested here. If Vick reads the dam field, sets and throws at the bottom of his drop as designed . . . protection is a non issue. When a WCO quarterback hits the bottom of his drop that ball is supposed to be gone. (period) No offensive line can block for as long as Vick is sitting back there. Now, it seems he has McNabb disease where he suddenly refuses to throw to a guy until he's open via a 5-10 yard radius. The guy is regressing at an alarming rate. I realize play calling and protection are part of the problem, but the "problem" is named "Shitty Quarterbacking."
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Sep 24 2012, 09:19 PM) *
Just want to echo your sentiments. As far as I'm concerned and have been saying since before the season started this absolutely has to be the last chance for Reid/Vick. Honestly Reid should've been let go after 8-8 last season. We've been in a steady decline ever since McNabb left town (11-5, 10-6, 8-8). I like Foles, but if you think inserting a 3rd Round Rookie QB is suddenly going to turn this failing system into a winning one you're clearly insane. Vick took 21 hits yesterday, why would you want your rookie (future QB) taking a punishment like that? If anything a rookie QB will give opposing defenses even more incentive to crash the line. Why Foles will fail will be the same reason why countless other Eagles QBs have. Andy will never make the adjustments needed to be successful. He will always be out-coached and out-classed by teams with adaptability. Because of this it doesn't matter who are QB is.


I don't know if the "clearly insane" line was directed at me or not. In the event it was, I don't think I can make it any more clear than when I stated in the post you responded to that "anyone who thinks a rookie QB is not going to struggle is deluding themselves."
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (Dr. Claw @ Sep 24 2012, 11:10 PM) *
and this makes three. People seem to think that Andy is the lesser of two evils here... that's BS.

I actually agree w/mcnabbulous is that there's way too much "sky is falling" stuff going on. it's week freakin' 3. Eagles were 1-2 at this point last year.



The problem is that we have all been down this road so many times in the past. There are obvious flaws with this team that will preclude them from bringing home a Lombardy. There is not need to wait for the inevitable failure at the end of the season to point them out. There are what they are for all to see. As I stated in a seperate thread, it is an unholy trinity of poor coaching, poor QB play and a poor OL. It would take a miracle to correct all 3 of those sufficiently to give us any chance of bringing home a Lombary this season.
D Rock
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 25 2012, 03:15 AM) *
The problem is that we have all been down this road so many times in the past. There are obvious flaws with this team that will preclude them from bringing home a Lombardy. There is not need to wait for the inevitable failure at the end of the season to point them out. There are what they are for all to see. As I stated in a seperate thread, it is an unholy trinity of poor coaching, poor QB play and a poor OL. It would take a miracle to correct all 3 of those sufficiently to give us any chance of bringing home a Lombary this season.

I dont disagree with your trinity statement, but from where I sit . . . the dog shit quarterbacking is exacerbating the problems with play calling and protection. Certainly a quarterback getting the ball out on time and accurately reading the field will alleviate the perceived protection issues and playcalling questions.

No play call is going to look good when the QB can't read the field and makes the wrong decision. No protection is going to hold up for 10 seconds under NFL pressure.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (D Rock @ Sep 25 2012, 02:28 AM) *
I dont disagree with your trinity statement, but from where I sit . . . the dog shit quarterbacking is exacerbating the problems with play calling and protection. Certainly a quarterback getting the ball out on time and accurately reading the field will alleviate the perceived protection issues and playcalling questions.

No play call is going to look good when the QB can't read the field and makes the wrong decision. No protection is going to hold up for 10 seconds under NFL pressure.


I agree 100%. Vick's indecisiveness and poor decision making make the OL and playcalling look worse than they are. Poor playcalling and a poor OL put Vick in a position that he cannot succeed. These problems feed each other. To me right now, Vick's play is the biggest problem. It is also the only problem that there is hope of correcting during the season. Reid's playcalling is not correctible at this point in his tenure and we are pretty much stuck with the OL that we have at this point.
xsv
QUOTE
I am still laughing at this thread....

Me too. I can't believe anyone can defende Vick at this point.

QUOTE
some of it is holding the ball but most of it is turnstile blocking...

Pass protection with 2 starters and the backup LT has not been great. No doubt. But that's not why Vick gets hit so much. He gets hit so much because he holds the ball too long. He got hit too much all year last year, as well as the whole year in 2010.

QUOTE
and no one has said anything about how shitty Vick covered Fitzgerald........lol

Your selective reading is laughable. This first page has complaints about Namdi throughout. I've heard at least a dozen posters chime in that Namdi is not performaing anywhere near the levels we thought he would. That being said, the defense is a lone bright sport on this team. We've allowed only 19 points in the second half of all 3 games combined.

QUOTE
this loss reminded me of the pasting we gave San Fran with Steve Young........they went on to 13-3 and the SB and we won 7 games. We beat the hell out of them and held Young to 151 yds, 2 picks and a fumble..........they were a better team but their team was shit that day...

It's laughable that you would compare this team to an obvious superbowl team. This team won't make thep layoffs much less the SB. Not even close. I'll be happy if we get to 8-8.

QUOTE
It was one game and clearly a bad game plan......very bad game plan.......very, very bad game plan.....

Nope. Its been 3 very bad games. Yes, we won the first two, barely, but we played like dog shit in all 3 games. Vick especially, with Reid a close second in terms of responsibility.


Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ Sep 24 2012, 07:48 PM) *
Protection was not nearly as bad as is being suggested here. If Vick reads the dam field, sets and throws at the bottom of his drop as designed . . . protection is a non issue. When a WCO quarterback hits the bottom of his drop that ball is supposed to be gone. (period) No offensive line can block for as long as Vick is sitting back there. Now, it seems he has McNabb disease where he suddenly refuses to throw to a guy until he's open via a 5-10 yard radius. The guy is regressing at an alarming rate. I realize play calling and protection are part of the problem, but the "problem" is named "Shitty Quarterbacking."



just a side note on this......after i watched the game I was sure you and I watched a different game....while Vick may have missed Harbor on the goal line that was the exception not the rule........so I waited to see what Ray Didinger and Brian Baldinger would have to say when the break down the coach's tape......and like I thought they said that there was nowhere to throw and for several reasons....the Eagles often kept in the TE and RB to max protect and other times the Cards just covered well.....you can read all about it @ CSNPHILLY.com

and the play calling was bad.....they needed to run to set up the pass and slow down the rush.....
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