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mcnabbulous
He may be a shit show on any given play, but 2 straight long game winning drives is nothing to fuck with.
xsv
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 16 2012, 05:01 PM) *
He may be a shit show on any given play, but 2 straight long game winning drives is nothing to fuck with.


He needs to do a better job of taking care of the ball, and he doesn't learn.

But he is remarkable.
Bocadelphia Eagles John
That's correct.

I'm not suggesting he be annointed another Manning or Montana, but on some occasions he will show leadership and this is 2 in a row. So you have to take notice of that.

Problem for him is, he seems to take a hard hit after almost every throw and that can't be good for anybody's body which will take it's toll on the guy.

He's definately got a certain spirit or attitude and it's fun to watch.

But wow, I don't know how much longer my nerves can take it. I'm worn out after this game. Need to take a nap !!!
mcnabbulous
I'm in the camp that didn't think he was clutch. These games have impressed me. God damn these mistakes but I'm flying high right now.
Reality Fan
and for the "Reid can't manage the clock" and I guess the "Vick isn't clutch" camp I submit the little snippet the commentators shared with the viewing audience.......the Eagles led the NFL in scoring in the last 2 minutes of a half since the beginning of last year.....89 points I believe was the number......go figure........

That being said they did mess up to end the first half giving Baltimore time for that FG......and how about the kicker for Baltimore....
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 16 2012, 05:15 PM) *
and for the "Reid can't manage the clock" and I guess the "Vick isn't clutch" camp I submit the little snippet the commentators shared with the viewing audience.......the Eagles led the NFL in scoring in the last 2 minutes of a half since the beginning of last year.....89 points I believe was the number......go figure........

That being said they did mess up to end the first half giving Baltimore time for that FG......and how about the kicker for Baltimore....


That Baltimore kicker is scary... the anti-Cundiff, he could well kick it from 60.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 16 2012, 10:15 PM) *
and for the "Reid can't manage the clock" and I guess the "Vick isn't clutch" camp I submit the little snippet the commentators shared with the viewing audience.......the Eagles led the NFL in scoring in the last 2 minutes of a half since the beginning of last year.....89 points I believe was the number......go figure........

That being said they did mess up to end the first half giving Baltimore time for that FG......and how about the kicker for Baltimore....


As I read your first paragraph the first thing I thought of was the piss poor clock management at the end of the first half. I also think Reid made a mistake by accepting the penalty on 3rd down at the beggining of the 4th quarter. Taking the penalty did not move Bal out of field goal range but it did give them an extra shot at converting a 3rd down.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 16 2012, 05:20 PM) *
As I read your first paragraph the first thing I thought of was the piss poor clock management at the end of the first half. I also think Reid made a mistake by accepting the penalty on 3rd down at the beggining of the 4th quarter. Taking the penalty did not move Bal out of field goal range but it did give them an extra shot at converting a 3rd down.


I knew the first sentence would bring that to mind....lol but I also wanted to make sure that I do look at both sides of any debate........
xsv
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 16 2012, 05:20 PM) *
As I read your first paragraph the first thing I thought of was the piss poor clock management at the end of the first half. I also think Reid made a mistake by accepting the penalty on 3rd down at the beggining of the 4th quarter. Taking the penalty did not move Bal out of field goal range but it did give them an extra shot at converting a 3rd down.


Yeah, I didn't quite get the accepting that penalty. I know it pushed them out further for a longer FG attempt, but I'd still have preferred to give them the 3 rather than giving them another shot at getting the first down.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 16 2012, 05:05 PM) *
He needs to do a better job of taking care of the ball, and he doesn't learn.

But he is remarkable.


typical fence sitter........you stated your opinion of the guy so please don't let one performance have you hopping up on the fence.........

remember...he is not accurate, he is not a QB......stay the course......

I pray he really falls apart because it will be a long season for you otherwise........I promised my self I will be much nicer this year but I would remember who says what regarding absolutes.....

no remember, you think he sucks.......and now he is remarkable........funny stuff huh....
xsv
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 16 2012, 05:41 PM) *
typical fence sitter........you stated your opinion of the guy so please don't let one performance have you hopping up on the fence.........

remember...he is not accurate, he is not a QB......stay the course......

I pray he really falls apart because it will be a long season for you otherwise........I promised my self I will be much nicer this year but I would remember who says what regarding absolutes.....

no remember, you think he sucks.......and now he is remarkable........funny stuff huh....


I said the other day that he is very talented. He is very remarkable in how talented he in.

He's still not very accurate. <56% career completion percentage.
He still throws too many interceptions. 2 more today, though to be fair, one of them wasn't completly his fault, Celek's got to catch that, no matter how covered he was. It was still a bad decision to throw it to Celek in the first place.
He's still careless with the ball. Almost gave the game away by not throwing it away earlier on that last drive.
He's still pretty one dimensional. His running is what kept that drive and other drives moving. How much longer will this 34 year old QB be able to do that?
I have no idea why the Ravens stopped blitzing him in the 4th quarter. I'm glad they did, this was a fun win, but I think that was stupid on their part.

I still don't like him, and hope he fucks up and goes back to jail soon.
I'm still really looking forward to getting Foles some action to see if he's out next frachise QB, or if we should draft one with our first pick next year.
Phits
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 16 2012, 05:49 PM) *
He's still pretty one dimensional. His running is what kept that drive and other drives moving. How much longer will this 34 year old QB be able to do that?

34 year old QB can continue to do it....a 36 yeart old QB is another story. Hopefully by then he will have been a memory, but until then keep it up.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 16 2012, 07:25 PM) *
34 year old QB can continue to do it....a 36 yeart old QB is another story. Hopefully by then he will have been a memory, but until then keep it up.


Vick is 32
Reality Fan
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 16 2012, 05:49 PM) *
I said the other day that he is very talented. He is very remarkable in how talented he in.

He's still not very accurate. <56% career completion percentage.
He still throws too many interceptions. 2 more today, though to be fair, one of them wasn't completly his fault, Celek's got to catch that, no matter how covered he was. It was still a bad decision to throw it to Celek in the first place.
He's still careless with the ball. Almost gave the game away by not throwing it away earlier on that last drive.
He's still pretty one dimensional. His running is what kept that drive and other drives moving. How much longer will this 34 year old QB be able to do that?
I have no idea why the Ravens stopped blitzing him in the 4th quarter. I'm glad they did, this was a fun win, but I think that was stupid on their part.

I still don't like him, and hope he fucks up and goes back to jail soon.
I'm still really looking forward to getting Foles some action to see if he's out next frachise QB, or if we should draft one with our first pick next year.


I have to stop reading your posts because now you are just being ridiculous. I agree the ints were bad decisions but if you watched the game as you claim then you are blinded by hate or an idiot. He was over 70% and threw mainly from the pocket, he scrambled a few times for a first down but the lion share was done from the pocket and he was dead accurate. I love how you keep reciting the career comp % and never have acknowledged the Atlanta offensive philosophy.

well, enough talking to a wall.....I promise to ignore the rest
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 16 2012, 08:42 PM) *
Vick is 32

same difference. ride that horse until it breaks
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 16 2012, 08:57 PM) *
same difference. ride that horse until it breaks


and an excellent way to look at it
Rick
Vick is the biggest fraud in the history of the NFL.

Ok, maybe not but, honestly, if anyone thinks they'll keep winning with Vick turning the ball over on every other play, well, not sure what to say.

His decision-making seems to have gotten even worse than it has been in the past.

I don't think you can really call someone clutch when they're the one putting the team in the position to where he has to be clutch. wink.gif

I hope for a Vick injury when he's walking onto the field and on every play.
JeeQ
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 16 2012, 02:01 PM) *
He may be a shit show on any given play, but 2 straight long game winning drives is nothing to fuck with.


That sounds a lot like Eli Manning... a lot like Tony Romo... Could it be even great QBs have bad days against good defenses?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Sep 16 2012, 08:42 PM) *
That sounds a lot like Eli Manning... a lot like Tony Romo... Could it be even great QBs have bad days against good defenses?


Eli has proven the clutch thing. Romo? Not so much. None of the guys are elite, but Eli's proven clutchness has been impressive.
Vick's upside is greater than both of them. If he starts/continues playing big when it counts, we'll be in good shape.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Rick @ Sep 16 2012, 09:13 PM) *
Vick is the biggest fraud in the history of the NFL.

Ok, maybe not but, honestly, if anyone thinks they'll keep winning with Vick turning the ball over on every other play, well, not sure what to say.

His decision-making seems to have gotten even worse than it has been in the past.

I don't think you can really call someone clutch when they're the one putting the team in the position to where he has to be clutch. wink.gif

I hope for a Vick injury when he's walking onto the field and on every play.


in 42 plays he threw 2 picks but he complete over 70% of his passes, throws and runs for a TD and passes for 375 yds and they beat one of the better teams in the league largely on his effort.....and his 2 picks? they led to 3 points for the Ravens...

That being said.....anyone who wishes an injury on anyone.....well...that kind of speaks for itself.....


CT_Eagle
Yeah, not too big on the wishing for an injury thing.

Vick is what Vick is and these first two games showed the whole package.

He makes poor decisions and turns the ball over a lot. He also has the ability to put his team on his back and make that game winning drive. Some fans don't mind living on the edge with that type of a QB. I am getting too old for it. biggrin.gif
xsv
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 16 2012, 09:47 PM) *
in 42 plays he threw 2 picks but he complete over 70% of his passes, throws and runs for a TD and passes for 375 yds and they beat one of the better teams in the league largely on his effort.....and his 2 picks? they led to 3 points for the Ravens...

That being said.....anyone who wishes an injury on anyone.....well...that kind of speaks for itself.....


Like I said, I love this win. But how anyone can watch that game and say Vick had a great game is clearly delusional. He was ok this game, not great. Very Rome'esk. But he desperately need to improve his decision making.

Thats ok tho RF. You just be you. We'll still love you in spite of it.

Rick
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 16 2012, 09:47 PM) *
in 42 plays he threw 2 picks but he complete over 70% of his passes, throws and runs for a TD and passes for 375 yds and they beat one of the better teams in the league largely on his effort.....and his 2 picks? they led to 3 points for the Ravens...

That being said.....anyone who wishes an injury on anyone.....well...that kind of speaks for itself.....

Look at the man's résumé, not just a game or two. He's shown he's 1) not accurate over the long haul and 2) he constantly makes bad decisions in big situations.

Does that mean he's never had a good/great game or that he's never had times where he didn't make bad decisions in big situations? Absolutely not. However, 10+ years of him doing these types of things speaks for itself.

And I rarely wish for an injury on any player. However, I still don't like what he did. I won't get into an argument about it all here since it's been beaten to death. Nothing anyone can say will change the way I feel about him.
Rick
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 16 2012, 09:55 PM) *
Yeah, not too big on the wishing for an injury thing.

Vick is what Vick is and these first two games showed the whole package.

He makes poor decisions and turns the ball over a lot. He also has the ability to put his team on his back and make that game winning drive. Some fans don't mind living on the edge with that type of a QB. I am getting too old for it. biggrin.gif

Well-said.

More importantly, history shows he doesn't win over the long haul with the way he plays. Just not a good way to do things in the NFL.
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 16 2012, 09:47 PM) *
in 42 plays he threw 2 picks but he complete over 70% of his passes, throws and runs for a TD and passes for 375 yds and they beat one of the better teams in the league largely on his effort.....and his 2 picks? they led to 3 points for the Ravens...

That being said.....anyone who wishes an injury on anyone.....well...that kind of speaks for itself.....


bingo... the Eagles basically have a shorter Brett Favre at QB right now. I'll take "Favre" as long as the play calling isn't dumb (and it appears that absent that short pass left from the 3 that took the refs forever to figure out was an incomplete pass.... Andy/Marty significantly cut down the stupid play action passing and ran the ball more).

70%+ completion on the level of passing the Eagles put out, can't really complain about that.

Rick is eating the poo-poo on this one.
xsv
QUOTE (Dr. Claw @ Sep 17 2012, 08:29 AM) *
bingo... the Eagles basically have a shorter Brett Favre at QB right now. I'll take "Favre" as long as the play calling isn't dumb (and it appears that absent that short pass left from the 3 that took the refs forever to figure out was an incomplete pass.... Andy/Marty significantly cut down the stupid play action passing and ran the ball more).

70%+ completion on the level of passing the Eagles put out, can't really complain about that.

Rick is eating the poo-poo on this one.


Umm, did you really just compare mike vick to brett favre?

That's just unbelievable.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 17 2012, 09:48 AM) *
Umm, did you really just compare mike vick to brett favre?

That's just unbelievable.



I won't even do that, Favre is nowhere close....hahahahahahahaha
Reality Fan
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 16 2012, 09:57 PM) *
Like I said, I love this win. But how anyone can watch that game and say Vick had a great game is clearly delusional. He was ok this game, not great. Very Rome'esk. But he desperately need to improve his decision making.

Thats ok tho RF. You just be you. We'll still love you in spite of it.


I agree on the decision making......but not the accuracy...

Rome'esk? I assume you meant Romo except Vick won the game.....just sayin....lol
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 17 2012, 09:48 AM) *
Umm, did you really just compare mike vick to brett favre?

That's just unbelievable.


not really.
people are blinded by the fact that Brett had some very GREAT seasons in the '90s which culminated in the year it all came together in 1996, and had some 200+ consecutive starts.

but Brett Favre in the latter half of his career? if you weren't under a rock, one of the running gags of the NFL was how much he was slobbed and given all kinds of leeway for being an asshat despite the fact that he was one of the biggest "dumb play" making QBs in the NFL, largely off the kind of "hero ball" that Jason (S)hitlock derided in the piece in which he also took Andy Reid's negligent (game 1) playcalling to task.

There was one play (there's an animated GIF of it) where Brett, while scrambling, inches from first down yardage (and ahead of the LOS) throws the ball (and promptly gets flagged).

Brett developed a habit for throwing into double, if not triple coverage sometimes to the point he was known for being good for at least ONE INT (ask Packers fans who grew tired of this act in his last years there, and NFC North fans who hated him for years).

He also was playing out of his mind, throwing a season low number of INTs in that amazing 2009 run (which isn't that far off from Mike Vick's 2010 year from a high-level) with the Vikings. I'll never forget him throwing that asshole TD to kill the Cowboys' playoff hopes on 4th down when the game was effectively over. Ironically (or maybe not so), that low-turnover year ended on a COMPLETELY unnecessary INT one game short of the Super Bowl.

Romo (who I've called Favre Jr. and also grew up emulating Brett Favre) is the closest thing to Brett Favre we'll see as far complete match of skill set (and aggravating habits) is concerned, but there is also some "Favre" in how Vick has been playing this year as well.

When Vick could have easily run out of bounds on that 2nd down run, and decided to throw it down field where he thought the receiver could be led... the first thing that came to mind was Brett's infamous "throw the ball on a scramble when you have first down yardage" play.

What people are criticizing Vick for doing this season, Brett Favre was doing for years in the last decade. And yet, for him, it was merely "having fun".

The Favre comparison is not all that farfetched.

(the one INT I reference is here: http://www.bloguin.com/thisgivensunday/201...l-history.html)
xsv
I think some people are blinded by the last year of a 20 year hall of fame career that included 9 years that are better than all but one of Vick's 10 years.

Yes, Favre had some down years in which he was careless with that ball. If you are saying that Vick is careless with the football, like Favre was in his bad years, then I'd probably agree. I'd say that Vick generally (note: not this year, so far) plays *better* than Farve's worst years. I'd even go so far as to say that Vick's best year (2010) is almost as good as Favre's best year (2009).

But the similarities end there. Favre played 19 consecutive years before missing a game. Farve was significantly more accurate. Favre has a faster release. Farve has a better winning percentage. Favre was harder to gameplan for. Farve is a hall of famer. Vick is none of those things.

QUOTE (Dr. Claw @ Sep 17 2012, 11:49 AM) *
not really.
people are blinded by the fact that Brett had some very GREAT seasons in the '90s which culminated in the year it all came together in 1996, and had some 200+ consecutive starts.

but Brett Favre in the latter half of his career? if you weren't under a rock, one of the running gags of the NFL was how much he was slobbed and given all kinds of leeway for being an asshat despite the fact that he was one of the biggest "dumb play" making QBs in the NFL, largely off the kind of "hero ball" that Jason (S)hitlock derided in the piece in which he also took Andy Reid's negligent (game 1) playcalling to task.

There was one play (there's an animated GIF of it) where Brett, while scrambling, inches from first down yardage (and ahead of the LOS) throws the ball (and promptly gets flagged).

Brett developed a habit for throwing into double, if not triple coverage sometimes to the point he was known for being good for at least ONE INT (ask Packers fans who grew tired of this act in his last years there, and NFC North fans who hated him for years).

He also was playing out of his mind, throwing a season low number of INTs in that amazing 2009 run (which isn't that far off from Mike Vick's 2010 year from a high-level) with the Vikings. I'll never forget him throwing that asshole TD to kill the Cowboys' playoff hopes on 4th down when the game was effectively over. Ironically (or maybe not so), that low-turnover year ended on a COMPLETELY unnecessary INT one game short of the Super Bowl.

Romo (who I've called Favre Jr. and also grew up emulating Brett Favre) is the closest thing to Brett Favre we'll see as far complete match of skill set (and aggravating habits) is concerned, but there is also some "Favre" in how Vick has been playing this year as well.

When Vick could have easily run out of bounds on that 2nd down run, and decided to throw it down field where he thought the receiver could be led... the first thing that came to mind was Brett's infamous "throw the ball on a scramble when you have first down yardage" play.

What people are criticizing Vick for doing this season, Brett Favre was doing for years in the last decade. And yet, for him, it was merely "having fun".

The Favre comparison is not all that farfetched.

(the one INT I reference is here: http://www.bloguin.com/thisgivensunday/201...l-history.html)

xsv
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 17 2012, 09:52 AM) *
I won't even do that, Favre is nowhere close....hahahahahahahaha


lol.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 17 2012, 11:37 AM) *
Farve was significantly more accurate. Favre has a faster release.

I think you're really off base here. Vick's accuracy is not a problem.
xsv
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 17 2012, 09:54 AM) *
I agree on the decision making......but not the accuracy...

Rome'esk? I assume you meant Romo except Vick won the game.....just sayin....lol


You don't agree that Vick has some accuracy problems? What do you attribute his low completion percentage to?

Vick did win the game. He played better this game than last, by far. Two things frustrate me about him, beyond all others.

1- He's should know he needs to throw the fucking ball away when hes in the red zone and hes getting pressure. He's got the wheels to get outside the tackle. There's no reason to take unnecessary chances. Settling for 3 is not a bad thing.

2- Get rid of the ball earlier. If his first read isn't there, either dump it off or throw it away. Not all of the hits he's taking are the olines fault (although the oline was admittedly porous this game).

If he could just do these two things better, I think I would hate him a little bit less.
xsv
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 17 2012, 12:45 PM) *
I think you're really off base here. Vick's accuracy is not a problem.


Career stats beg to differ.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 17 2012, 11:47 AM) *
Career stats beg to differ.

His style of play/decision making impact those numbers. His completion % numbers are similar to Elway's.

You'll notice we don't do a lot of the short screen passes that heavily influenced McNabb's accuracy numbers.

When he sets his feet and delivers the ball, he puts it where it needs to go. He also throws a great deep ball.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 17 2012, 12:45 PM) *
You don't agree that Vick has some accuracy problems? What do you attribute his low completion percentage to?

Vick did win the game. He played better this game than last, by far. Two things frustrate me about him, beyond all others.

1- He's should know he needs to throw the fucking ball away when hes in the red zone and hes getting pressure. He's got the wheels to get outside the tackle. There's no reason to take unnecessary chances. Settling for 3 is not a bad thing.

2- Get rid of the ball earlier. If his first read isn't there, either dump it off or throw it away. Not all of the hits he's taking are the olines fault (although the oline was admittedly porous this game).

If he could just do these two things better, I think I would hate him a little bit less.


come on X.......his completion percentage career wise?

some things come to mind....Jim Mora.......Brian Finneran......Shawn Jefferson.....Trevor Gaylor....a washed up Peerless Price......hell, if not for Crumpler and Dunn it would have been even worse....

The mess that he had in Atlanta coupled with Mora deciding to not worry about his QB skills and to take full advantage of his legs for the running game were the big factors.
He was encouraged to throw on the run which clearly still affects his decision making still and he still struggles to take his progressions while trying hard not to take off.....but as far as accuracy, he is a pretty good passer and if he was ever able to stand in the pocket like a Manning et al he would be deadly but I guess we can't have our cake and eat it too....lol
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 17 2012, 12:54 PM) *
His style of play/decision making impact those numbers. His completion % numbers are similar to Elway's.

You'll notice we don't do a lot of the short screen passes that heavily influenced McNabb's accuracy numbers.

When he sets his feet and delivers the ball, he puts it where it needs to go. He also throws a great deep ball.


I was going to mention Elway eventually.........lol
xsv
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 17 2012, 12:54 PM) *
His style of play/decision making impact those numbers. His completion % numbers are similar to Elway's.

You'll notice we don't do a lot of the short screen passes that heavily influenced McNabb's accuracy numbers.

When he sets his feet and delivers the ball, he puts it where it needs to go. He also throws a great deep ball.


McNabb wasn't a very accurate QB either. He always made up for it by a.) Running the ball when he had to, especially early in his career and b.) having a very, very low turnover ratio.

Elway wasn't particularly accurate either. But he also took pretty good care of the ball, and he could also scramble.

Vick isn't even as accurate at either one of these guys, who weren't known for their accuracy. He also makes up for it with scrambling ability, albeit better scrambling ability than McNabb or Elway (but for how much longer and how many games will he miss? ) And, he doesn't take care of the ball nearly as well.

To me, it breaks down like this. With Vick we get...
- less accurate
- more turnovers
+ better scrambling ability




xsv
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 17 2012, 01:10 PM) *
come on X.......his completion percentage career wise?


OK then, his completion percentage over the last 10 games. He's roughly 56% there too.

Look, I'm not saying the guy can't hit the broad side of a barn. I'm just saying that in the accuracy department, he's worse than McNabb, and I've complained that McNabb wasn't as as accurate as I would like.

If he would just take better care of the ball, I could live with it, I suppose, but he still wouldn't be a very accurate QB, comparatively speaking.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 17 2012, 12:59 PM) *
Elway wasn't particularly accurate either.

Vick isn't even as accurate at either one of these guys

These two statements are crazy talk.
xsv
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 17 2012, 02:22 PM) *
These two statements are crazy talk.


Saying that these two statements are crazy talk is crazy talk.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 17 2012, 01:41 PM) *
Saying that these two statements are crazy talk is crazy talk.

Saying that Vick is less accurate than McNabb is about as accurate as McNabb.
GQSmooth
QUOTE (Rick @ Sep 16 2012, 09:13 PM) *
Vick is the biggest fraud in the history of the NFL.

Ok, maybe not but, honestly, if anyone thinks they'll keep winning with Vick turning the ball over on every other play, well, not sure what to say.

His decision-making seems to have gotten even worse than it has been in the past.

I don't think you can really call someone clutch when they're the one putting the team in the position to where he has to be clutch. wink.gif

I hope for a Vick injury when he's walking onto the field and on every play.

Can we nominate Rick's post for being the official asshole on this board?!?! And for the record XSV you're wrong on Vick's accuracy. You can argue Vick can't read a defense well, holds onto the ball too long, has bad timing and/or has bad judgement with the ball, but the only time Vick is inaccurate is when he runs to the right or throws across himself. Vick is light years more accurate than McNabb.

Vick's biggest problem is he is feast or famine. There are times where he is the best QB in the world (way too few times I should add) and then times he look woefully lost. My biggest frustrations are his poor blitz recognition and his risk taking when it comes to holding on to the ball too long and taking big hits.
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 17 2012, 12:37 PM) *
Yes, Favre had some down years in which he was careless with that ball. If you are saying that Vick is careless with the football, like Favre was in his bad years, then I'd probably agree.


that's exactly what I'm talking about. Favre had several years in a row where he was careless like this, which is why 2009 was SUCH a shock to everyone (even diehard fans of Favre). A lot of people thought he should have stayed retired after the Jets debacle. That season reminded everyone of why Favre was such a lauded player (though its end reminded everyone of what made Favre "fun").

it's funny because that HOF career blinded a LOT of people to that stuff. had that been any other QB (Romo comes to mind, since he has a LOT of the same style and habits of Favre without the stats and ring), they'd be killed for it.

Also, as others have said, Michael Vick is quite accurate as a passer. Part of the reason (I surmise) he throws those ridiculous multiple coverage passes is he has this crazy belief/confidence that he can actually complete it. Favre is similar in this regard. There were a lot of throws in that 2010 season I thought for sure were picks, that Vick just threaded the needle.
That kind of a play style just lends itself to INTs, and it was crazy that it got all the way to the Bears game before Vick threw his first INT.

Vick's problem isn't getting the ball to the receiver, it's decision making. That was a problem latter-day Favre had as well.

Dr. Claw
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 17 2012, 01:10 PM) *
come on X.......his completion percentage career wise?
The mess that he had in Atlanta coupled with Mora deciding to not worry about his QB skills and to take full advantage of his legs for the running game were the big factors.
He was encouraged to throw on the run which clearly still affects his decision making still and he still struggles to take his progressions while trying hard not to take off.....but as far as accuracy, he is a pretty good passer and if he was ever able to stand in the pocket like a Manning et al he would be deadly but I guess we can't have our cake and eat it too....lol


glad you said it. ATL under Mora/Knapp was like an even more broken version of Andyball where you replace passing with running. That might have been the biggest stunt to Mike Vick's growth as a QB, even more than missing a couple of years due to him being a dumbass of the highest order. If you thought the Eagle WRs were bad... their best receiver besides TE (Alge Crumpler) was a guy who could barely make it on the Eagles (Brian Finneran) back when the best Eagle WRs were Pinkston and Thrash (LMFAO!!!). Their WR coach was a former offensive lineman. That Mora/Knapp offense was the worst kind of "superman offense" in the NFL.

Go from a system like that and look at what Jim Harbaugh is doing with Alex Smith. Alex Smith was in the league for what... 7-8 years, finally got a decent coach who understands his abilities and now the Niners are an offensive threat for as much as they are a defensive threat. Alex Smith went from certified BUM to solid starter. Coaching/scheme matters big time.

if Mike Vick had that early in his career... there's no telling how good he'd be now.
CT_Eagle
I think some of you are talking about very different things. There is accuracy and completion percentage. I think you can be accurate without having a high completion percentage. You cannot have a high completion percentage without being accurate.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 17 2012, 02:10 PM) *
OK then, his completion percentage over the last 10 games. He's roughly 56% there too.

Look, I'm not saying the guy can't hit the broad side of a barn. I'm just saying that in the accuracy department, he's worse than McNabb, and I've complained that McNabb wasn't as as accurate as I would like.

If he would just take better care of the ball, I could live with it, I suppose, but he still wouldn't be a very accurate QB, comparatively speaking.



hmmm....well as an Eagles he is over 60% and over the last 10 he is 200/342 which is actually over 58%

now if you watched the game on Sunday and still say he is not accurate then I give up.......
xsv
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 17 2012, 03:36 PM) *
hmmm....well as an Eagles he is over 60% and over the last 10 he is 200/342 which is actually over 58%

now if you watched the game on Sunday and still say he is not accurate then I give up.......


He was plenty accurate on Sunday.

If you watched the game last Sunday and thought he didn't have accuracy problems then I give up.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 17 2012, 03:08 PM) *
He was plenty accurate on Sunday.

If you watched the game last Sunday and thought he didn't have accuracy problems then I give up.

What throws against Cleveland do you think were blatantly inaccurate?
xsv
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 17 2012, 04:16 PM) *
What throws against Cleveland do you think were blatantly inaccurate?


The ones that were low, high, behind or late.
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