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mcnabbulous
Teams are clearly becoming very blitz happy against us. I hope we use Shady as a receiver early and often with some screens. Maybe DeSean too.

It seems odd how rarely we use the screen pass these days, given how successful we had been in the past.
GQSmooth
A lot of 3-step drops and timing, but that is not Vick's strength.
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (GQSmooth @ Sep 12 2012, 06:05 PM) *
A lot of 3-step drops and timing, but that is not Vick's strength.


neither is the screen pass. he doesnt sell it well and looks awkward throwing it.
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2012, 05:26 PM) *
Teams are clearly becoming very blitz happy against us. I hope we use Shady as a receiver early and often with some screens. Maybe DeSean too.

It seems odd how rarely we use the screen pass these days, given how successful we had been in the past.


I was wondering why the hell they didn't call so many screens... that was the B-West B&B.
Birdman420
I will say that even though Mcnabb was the biggest fraud in NFL history(laugh) that he was a fucking ninja when i came to screens and shovel passes
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Birdman420 @ Sep 14 2012, 11:18 AM) *
I will say that even though Mcnabb was the biggest fraud in NFL history(laugh) that he was a fucking ninja when i came to screens and shovel passes

Was absolutely a great skill. Probably wasn't appreciated as much, given how easy he made it look. Especially because it seems that Vick struggles with them.
Reality Fan
I have read that it is because Vick is so short but that is silly....he is 2" shorter than McNabb.....and Flutie had no problems with screen passes.........he threw them last year with little or no problems. I think, and this is simply my opinion but the number of screens thrown by this team never recovered from the TO years where Reid fell in love with the vertical game. Before that they loved screens but ever since it has almost been an afterthought. They brought it back with Garcia because he had a popgun arm but with McNabb and Vick it all deep all the time.....it reminds me of me playing Madden when I was younger.........bombs away regardless of down and distance.....(though my personal favorite was Sega's Joe Montana for the PC).

someone tell Marty this isn't Madden....please.....
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 14 2012, 02:05 PM) *
I have read that it is because Vick is so short but that is silly....he is 2" shorter than McNabb.....and Flutie had no problems with screen passes.........he threw them last year with little or no problems. I think, and this is simply my opinion but the number of screens thrown by this team never recovered from the TO years where Reid fell in love with the vertical game. Before that they loved screens but ever since it has almost been an afterthought. They brought it back with Garcia because he had a popgun arm but with McNabb and Vick it all deep all the time.....it reminds me of me playing Madden when I was younger.........bombs away regardless of down and distance.....(though my personal favorite was Sega's Joe Montana for the PC).

someone tell Marty this isn't Madden....please.....

I think it's because they don't trust Vick (and previously McNabb) to sustain drives consistently, so they're hoping for big plays.

In McNabb's early days, he would offset his issues on medium range passes with his running. Once he stopped doing that, it was big plays or bust.

Vick would seem to be able to pick up short chunks with his legs. I wonder if he was more willing to take 7 yards and slide, if they would be more comfortable with him doing so.
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 14 2012, 03:05 PM) *
I have read that it is because Vick is so short but that is silly....he is 2" shorter than McNabb.....and Flutie had no problems with screen passes.........he threw them last year with little or no problems. I think, and this is simply my opinion but the number of screens thrown by this team never recovered from the TO years where Reid fell in love with the vertical game. Before that they loved screens but ever since it has almost been an afterthought. They brought it back with Garcia because he had a popgun arm but with McNabb and Vick it all deep all the time.....it reminds me of me playing Madden when I was younger.........bombs away regardless of down and distance.....(though my personal favorite was Sega's Joe Montana for the PC).

someone tell Marty this isn't Madden....please.....


Bingo. T.O. was both a blessing and a curse.
This was an argument I made in the Pats game from last year. They had Vince Young throwing passes as if he were McNabb or Vick... which just isn't going to work.
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (Dr. Claw @ Sep 14 2012, 03:52 PM) *
Bingo. T.O. was both a blessing and a curse.
This was an argument I made in the Pats game from last year. They had Vince Young throwing passes as if he were McNabb or Vick... which just isn't going to work.


T.O. may have started the love affair with the long ball but AR married himself to it when he signed DeSean 'I Go Deep' Jackson and made him the focus of the offense
Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 14 2012, 03:26 PM) *
I think it's because they don't trust Vick (and previously McNabb) to sustain drives consistently, so they're hoping for big plays.

In McNabb's early days, he would offset his issues on medium range passes with his running. Once he stopped doing that, it was big plays or bust.

Vick would seem to be able to pick up short chunks with his legs. I wonder if he was more willing to take 7 yards and slide, if they would be more comfortable with him doing so.


it can be directly linked to the arrival of TO...........after 2004 and the success they had it became the hallmark of their offense and the screens diminished considerably......until McNabb was hurt and then they would reappear......prior to 2004 they used it in tandem with McNabb's legs because a) it worked and cool.gif McNabb's intermediate accuracy issues were minimized.

I have always said TO was a bigger curse than most people ever thought.

Desean was just an extension of this policy change
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 15 2012, 11:28 AM) *
it can be directly linked to the arrival of TO...........after 2004 and the success they had it became the hallmark of their offense and the screens diminished considerably......until McNabb was hurt and then they would reappear......prior to 2004 they used it in tandem with McNabb's legs because a) it worked and cool.gif McNabb's intermediate accuracy issues were minimized.

I have always said TO was a bigger curse than most people ever thought.

Desean was just an extension of this policy change

I'm simply saying that if we had an accurate QB, I think the gameplan would change dramatically. The Garcia games are a perfect example.

I'm quite certain that the reason we pass so much is largely a numbers game. If we had a guy that was completing those intermediate throws at a 65% clip, than throwing once or twice every three downs is logical. Because of the inconsistency, we end up throwing 2 or 3 times.

Because we don't know what Vick (or previously McNabb) is going to do on any given throw, increasing the pure number of passes increases the likelihood of those guys picking up 10 yards.

I'm definitely no statistician, but I'd be curious as to what one thought about that.

Reality Fan
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 15 2012, 01:27 PM) *
I'm simply saying that if we had an accurate QB, I think the gameplan would change dramatically. The Garcia games are a perfect example.

I'm quite certain that the reason we pass so much is largely a numbers game. If we had a guy that was completing those intermediate throws at a 65% clip, than throwing once or twice every three downs is logical. Because of the inconsistency, we end up throwing 2 or 3 times.

Because we don't know what Vick (or previously McNabb) is going to do on any given throw, increasing the pure number of passes increases the likelihood of those guys picking up 10 yards.

I'm definitely no statistician, but I'd be curious as to what one thought about that.


it is an interesting theory......they threw less and ran more with Feeley, Garcia et al but the question is whether that was because they were more accurate, Garcia at least, or because they all had noodle arms? None of the backups can/could throw the deep ball. I think Foles will eventually learn that because he has a terrific arm. Vick and mcNabb can throw the ball out of the stadium. This may sound crazy but Vick is actually pretty accurate, he can thread the needle but his problem is his a0 consistency and b0 his decision making. His completion % suffers from trying to do too much and keeping plays alive and struggling with the 'do I take off or do I throw" argument in his head.

You may be right but I truly believe that Reid likes the quick strike, deep ball, big play offense to get an early lead and set up his defense.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 15 2012, 01:26 PM) *
This may sound crazy but Vick is actually pretty accurate, he can thread the needle but his problem is his a0 consistency and b0 his decision making. His completion % suffers from trying to do too much and keeping plays alive and struggling with the 'do I take off or do I throw" argument in his head.

I agree with this. Have thought so since his days at VT. When he sets his feet, he's as accurate as you can want. It's the other stuff that causes the consistency issues.
McNabb, on the other hand, would throw a perfect strike one play, the throw a worm burner in the same exact situation, the next time around.

D Rock
My problem with Vick has never been accuracy. I agree that he's fine in this area when in rythm and on time, there's no issue there. But as you suggest, the decision making kills him. He still can't read a defense and is now staring down his primary more often than not.

As for your reasoning for why we pass so often w. McNabb and now Vick: I completely agree and have suggested as much in the past. It's a law of averages thing.
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