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nephillymike
Well, on one hand, it's a good thing they won in a blowout to a division foe and have to come here on a short week.

The easy win softened them up a bit, ripe for the picking, ready to be had.

On the other hand, they looked like a well oiled machine and have a coach who knows Andy's tendencies all too well.

If we are the team that the experts thought we were, we win this game. If not, we'll fall back to a deserved spot reserved for 1-1 teams coming off an 8-8 season.

It will be an early indicator of where we stand.
CT_Eagle
Definitely a good early season test. Bal is a quality opponent and if the Eagles want to start to translate some of the pre-season hype to in-season reality, they will need to step up to the plate this weekend.
koolaidluke
I've always really despised Harbaugh. I think he looks like a potato. I hate his brother a million times more but I'll take whichever one I can get.

I would say we have approximately zero chance to beat the Ravens.
Dreagon
The fact is, it's probably a good thing you played the Browns last Sunday. That gave Vick a chance to knock the rust off against a team that you had room to screw up against. Now that that's out of the way, I imagine he will be working all week to iron things out and see that he's ready for Baltimore.
HobbEs
I think it'll take more than just one game for Vick to knock the rust off.

This game looks like a disaster to me. Rusty Vick + pass happy Andy + an oppsing coach who knows our tendencies = one ugly Sunday.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 10 2012, 10:31 PM) *
On the other hand, they looked like a well oiled machine and have a coach who knows Andy's tendencies all too well.


As a prank, Harbaugh will probably draw up our entire playbook and gameplan (verbatim), and fax it to Andy on Saturday night, with a smiley face on it saying 'I knowz what u gunna do.'

80% chance this is going to be a blowout. Our defense has a shot at keeping this close, but I don't see how we're going to beat them.
D Rock
Can we put this "rust" talk to rest already. Vick has been knocking off the rust since he got outta jail. He ain't rusty. He's just not very good.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 10 2012, 09:31 PM) *
If we are the team that the experts thought we were, we win this game. If not, we'll fall back to a deserved spot reserved for 1-1 teams coming off an 8-8 season.

It will be an early indicator of where we stand.

I have to disagree with this statement. We have been historically slow starters under Reid, we have one of the youngest teams in football...

I expect us to have struggles early and hit our stride in November.

Losing to the Ravens won't change those expectations.

Phits
QUOTE (D Rock @ Sep 11 2012, 10:13 AM) *
Can we put this "rust" talk to rest already. Vick has been knocking off the rust since he got outta jail. He ain't rusty. He's just not very good.

Agreed. At least Until he proves otherwise.....**hoping**
make_it_rain
It's always interesting watching the early lines Vegas sets for teams on Tuesday mornings.....

Vegas opened the Eagles as a 3 point favorite for Sunday, but by noon over 98%(!) of the wagers coming in were all on Baltimore (at least among the books I track), driving the line down to 2 and 1 in some books.

Usually Philly gets a ton of bets coming in on them (mostly from our fanbase, I assume), so as a public team their price is usually inflated when it comes to betting them, as the linesmakers need to adjust for this, but I was still surprised that the opening line was a full 3 points. That's basically the equivalent of Vegas saying "Fuck it, we don't know what's going to happen here, just give Phila the 3 points for home field and let's move on to the next game"

So, I'm going to echo that mentality. I have no clue what's going to happen with this team, or which team is going to show up, so I'll just leave it at that and say I'm excited for the home opener unsure.gif
koolaidluke
The Eagles were initially FAVORED against the Ravens? That makes zero sense.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ Sep 11 2012, 02:08 PM) *
Vegas opened the Eagles as a 3 point favorite for Sunday, but by noon over 98%(!) of the wagers coming in were all on Baltimore (at least among the books I track), driving the line down to 2 and 1 in some books.


It's refreshing to know that only 2% of our population is completely retarded. Philly is always overpriced by gametime because our fanbase is overrepresented among our nation's degenerate gamblers, as you mention - but I'm absolutely shocked we OPENED up as 3 point favorites. If the line is even or if we're favored by Sunday, I'll be dropping some serious dough on Balt.....
GQSmooth
I dont get it I figured Ravens would be -4.5. Vegas must be counting the fact it was a monday nighter but the way I see it the Ravens dont really have to travel and its still early in the season.
xsv
QUOTE (D Rock @ Sep 11 2012, 10:13 AM) *
Can we put this "rust" talk to rest already. Vick has been knocking off the rust since he got outta jail. He ain't rusty. He's just not very good.



^^^^^
xsv
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Sep 11 2012, 02:10 PM) *
The Eagles were initially FAVORED against the Ravens? That makes zero sense.


Not only were they INITIALLY favored against the Ravens, but they are STILL favored against the Ravens, by as much as 2.5.

Shocking. blink.gif
koolaidluke
What?!

Does anybody here think we will win this game? This is the most sure of a loss I have been since we played the Colts in 2010. The good news is we ended up winning that game so maybe we have a chance against the Ravens.

Reality Fan
I am still laughing at the premise that Philly depresses the line any more than any other city.....cause New Yorkers don't bet much do that? I figured after the point about Reid's record against NFC playoff teams was killed it would stop but the hits keep coming.......I am not trying to be a smartass but national betting is more a reflection of degenerate gamblers everywhere and Philly fans don't affect a line any more or less than fans in New York or Chicago or virtually any city.

Now that being said Vick had a horrible game but all this talk that he sucks is ridiculous.......and the game plan didn't hurt? Seriously? What game do some of you folks watch? Against a team with rookie LBs you take 7 step drops and try to throw down field against the only part of their D with talent? It was a terrible game plan to put on a QB with no preseason and an O line looking for confidence. If any game called for them to be run heavy it was this one. Cleveland was one of the top teams against the pass last year, they have a good secondary. They should have come out running the ball and throwing screens etc but they kept looking for the deep ball and Cleveland kept blitzing and saying thank you........

and if you think there is any one on this team that gives them a better chance at QB you need a new sport. Foles is a cute story and he may be the future but he was not good at all on deep balls and teams will not be running vanilla D's against him and Edwards might not make it out of the first quarter alive.

Vick had a bad game, get over it....some many frickin absolitist here....they never, he will never, he sucks, they suck....I wish the world was so black and white...

ok....I am off my soapbox.....whew
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
I figured after the point about Reid's record against NFC playoff teams was killed it would stop but the hits keep coming


Except you didn't kill it. I incorrectly stated his record against NFC teams, you incorrectly got them closer, and then I came up with 23-32. That's a 41% win percentage, hardly looks like his career record, no? His record against AFC playoffs teams is 2-15, a 12% win percentage - and now, the (playoff-qualified) 12-4 Ravens of last year who were 4 points from a SB appearance, who just crushed a decent-looking Bengals team, are playing us.....the 8-8 Eagles of last year, who just by a cunt hair managed to hold on against the worst team in the league, with our QB throwing pick after pick. And that doesn't count the fact that Harbaugh can probably tell exactly what play is being called as soon as Reid/Marty know what it is.

It's absolutely, 110% ludicrous that Balt is getting points.
mcnabbulous
RF, sometimes I can't help but think of Grandpa Simpson when reading one of your rants. wink.gif

xsv
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 11 2012, 03:09 PM) *
Now that being said Vick had a horrible game but all this talk that he sucks is ridiculous.......


I'm not sure what else you can say about a guy that has a career 55% completion percentage and throws almost as many interceptions as tds for his career.

We're not talking about one game here. We're talking about a downward trend, which other than a single outlier year, wasn't that great to begin with.

It's time that people start to realize that the Vick we saw in the first half of 2010 is not the Vick we see today. And we're not not very likely to ever see that Vick again.

QUOTE
and the game plan didn't hurt? Seriously?

Obviously, the game plan hurt. On that we can agree. But I don't care how bad the gameplan was, or how good their secondary is, you can't throw and interception every 15 passes.


QUOTE
and if you think there is any one on this team that gives them a better chance at QB you need a new sport.

Vick is GONE after next year, at the very latest. There's no way on Earth this team pays a 34 year old QB with accuracy and turnover problems 17 millions dollars, or whatever that ungodly number is in his contract. The sooner we start grooming Foles, the better positioned we will be when that happens. We're not going anywhere this year with Vick at the helm. Might as well get the new guy in there to see if he can be the future, or if we have to start thinking about drafting a franchise QB after the season.


QUOTE
Vick had a bad game, get over it....

Actually, other than a stretch of about 10 games form 2009-2010, Vick has had a pretty lousy CAREER as a qb, with his highest qb rating being in the low 80's. Yes, he makes some highlight reels with some insane athletic ability. But he's older now, his athletisism is dwindling, and he still doesn't know how to play QB.

Anyone that thinks that Vick has really learned how to play QB isn't paying very close attention, and as you so bluntly put it, should find another sport. biggrin.gif
mcnabbulous
I recall prior to the Vince Young draft, his coaches at Texas said something along the lines of him being better the less he was coached. It raised huge read flags for me.

From what I can tell, Vick has a whole lot of that going on. The more he's got going on in his head, the less effective he is. IBM actually came out of retirement and did a write-up comparing Vick to Tiger Woods, which is an interesting read, if you haven't already seen it.

I think this is going to be the final year of the Michael Vick experience in Philly, barring a SB appearance.

Phits
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 11 2012, 04:47 PM) *
Anyone that thinks that Vick has really learned how to play QB isn't paying very close attention, and as you so bluntly put it, should find another sport. biggrin.gif

I thought that Andy Reid guy was the 'horse whisperer' for QB's? After the job Harbaugh did with that loser Alex Smith, I have strong doubts in AR's ability to develop QB's and wonder whether he is just a master illusionist.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Sep 11 2012, 03:56 PM) *
Except you didn't kill it. I incorrectly stated his record against NFC teams, you incorrectly got them closer, and then I came up with 23-32. That's a 41% win percentage, hardly looks like his career record, no? His record against AFC playoffs teams is 2-15, a 12% win percentage - and now, the (playoff-qualified) 12-4 Ravens of last year who were 4 points from a SB appearance, who just crushed a decent-looking Bengals team, are playing us.....the 8-8 Eagles of last year, who just by a cunt hair managed to hold on against the worst team in the league, with our QB throwing pick after pick. And that doesn't count the fact that Harbaugh can probably tell exactly what play is being called as soon as Reid/Marty know what it is.

It's absolutely, 110% ludicrous that Balt is getting points.


I went back over it again and it is 22-29, regardless....the biggest contributor to that was in his own division in years when the Eagles had down years(20 of his 29 losses come from his own division whereas the large majority of the wins are from outside his division....the NFC east has had several years with multiple teams in the playoffs)......his record against playoff teams outside his division is very good.

That being said, Vegas did not set the line thinking Philly fans are going to go bonkers.....they see something different...they may be wrong but they usually are not. As much as Harbaugh knows Reid, Reid knows Harbaugh. It is certainly odd that Baltimore is getting points, no doubt but it is what it is. Put big money on Baltimore.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 11 2012, 04:47 PM) *
Actually, other than a stretch of about 10 games form 2009-2010, Vick has had a pretty lousy CAREER as a qb, with his highest qb rating being in the low 80's. Yes, he makes some highlight reels with some insane athletic ability. But he's older now, his athletisism is dwindling, and he still doesn't know how to play QB.

Anyone that thinks that Vick has really learned how to play QB isn't paying very close attention, and as you so bluntly put it, should find another sport. biggrin.gif



this coming from an avowed Vick hater....shocking......

why do people put themselves in a position to look silly after one game with statements like "we are not going anywhere this year"? So damn dumb....recall McNabb in 02 or 03....looked terrible, they started 02 with McNabb throwing 3 picks, no TDs and played horribly and what happened next? They went 12-2....that is why you can't make such a ridiculous statement after one game. Foe your sake I hope they do falla nd Vick is the reason because I will not let this one go...I will be that little birdie reminding you every step of the way.

He played in an offense in Atlanta whose prize Wr was an guy who could not make the Eagles....the Eagles of Torrance Smalls et al and the focus of that offense was running the ball and he still was voted to the pro bowl3 times there? He had a TE and that was it. If you look at his stats and know nothing about the situation in Atlanta then they don't look good but I would expect that from a kid not someone who watches the NFL for 20-30 years.

Has he learned to play QB? Yes, but now they are trying to make him Peyton Manning and that ain't ever happening. His skill set is not out thinking D's......his skill set is making Ds adjust to him and he still has the speed and the arm.....it just seems that Marty/Andy are hell bent on making him what they want instead of what he is........He played free in 2010....they need to let him play fast and stop all the thinking....pretty simple.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 11 2012, 06:40 PM) *
Put big money on Baltimore.



Yeah it's just a matter of how much - if I lose my consolation prize is we're 2-0 and just beat one of the top teams in the NFL.
nephillymike
They have figured Vick out.

Remember after he was fabulous for the first seven games he played in 2010?

What was the game plan against him in thsoe seven games?

Sit back in zone coverage because he was not thought to be a good pocket passer. Do not DARE blitz him because his legs would make you pay big time.

Then a team figured out that it was best to blitz the SHIT out of him to force him into hurried decisions and rush his reads into a pace he was uncomfortable with. Since he was being trained to be a pocket passer, he would be more reluctant to run from the pocket and make you pay for blitzing him, always hangiing in there to make the last read, even in a blitz spot. This made it less risky to blitz him. Add a few more injuries out of the pocket, and he would be LESS willing to run. The fact that he is short.akes it more difficult for him to beat the blitz by throwing the quick slant b/c ha can't pass over the line from a short drop.

He sucks against the blitz coming in at a 77 passer rating, vs 100+ for the elite QB's. Until he can beat the blitz, they will continue to do it.

His QB play Sunday was the worst I've seen since that horrendous Feeley game against (Seattle?). Even Feeley didn't have as many almost INT's to go along with Vicks four.

They need to use the running game and use designed bootlegs keepers and roll outs to keep the defenses honest, and once in a while keep a two man backfield in to block the blitz long enough to get the ball downfield to Jackson and Maclin deep. As Andy would say, "we need to do a better job at that".
xsv
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 11 2012, 11:14 PM) *
They need to use the running game and use designed bootlegs keepers and roll outs to keep the defenses honest, and once in a while keep a two man backfield in to block the blitz long enough to get the ball downfield to Jackson and Maclin deep. As Andy would say, "we need to do a better job at that".


I think think there's any other way to win with this guy at QB. Either run, qb draw, or max protect and go deep. Got to limit what he does poorly, which is read defenses, make quick decisions throwing the ball, and deliver the ball accurately under duress. Keep him to 25-30 passes a game, with many of those being screens, and I think we might be ok.
xsv
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 11 2012, 06:56 PM) *
this coming from an avowed Vick hater....shocking......


this coming from a hater of bad qbs.

How you can watch him play like he has for the last year and a half and think that he's going to get any better is beyond me.
D Rock
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 12 2012, 04:23 AM) *
How you can watch him play like he has for the last year and a half and think that he's going to get any better is beyond me.

Yup.
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 11 2012, 11:14 PM) *
They have figured Vick out.

Remember after he was fabulous for the first seven games he played in 2010?

What was the game plan against him in thsoe seven games?

Sit back in zone coverage because he was not thought to be a good pocket passer. Do not DARE blitz him because his legs would make you pay big time.

Then a team figured out that it was best to blitz the SHIT out of him to force him into hurried decisions and rush his reads into a pace he was uncomfortable with. Since he was being trained to be a pocket passer, he would be more reluctant to run from the pocket and make you pay for blitzing him, always hangiing in there to make the last read, even in a blitz spot. This made it less risky to blitz him. Add a few more injuries out of the pocket, and he would be LESS willing to run. The fact that he is short.akes it more difficult for him to beat the blitz by throwing the quick slant b/c ha can't pass over the line from a short drop.

He sucks against the blitz coming in at a 77 passer rating, vs 100+ for the elite QB's. Until he can beat the blitz, they will continue to do it.



+1

his whole ATL career Vick never had to do a ton of reading defenses because with DCs afraid he was gonna burn 'em for a 50yd clip they gave him all the time in the world to wait while his WR/TE would run thru zones to get open

"let him do whatever he wants for as long as he wants but DEAR GAWD dont let him out of the pocket." also DCs would do stuff like have a 'spy' which means one less defender in coverage. DL were told to contain instead of attack, LBs/DBs could only play half-ass coverage on their man because they always kept an eye in the backfield in case Vick took off....even with all that he wasnt very accurate but he could win a lot of games like that

now DCs know that Vick pre-snap doesnt process what he sees very well whether they disguise it or not. now they blitz, tell the DL to attack instead of contain, man up on the little WRs with a bit of safety help sometimes to discourage that long ball AR loves so much and it leaves Vick with a ton to process quickly which means he has to hold onto the ball ...even if he finds a place to go its just before he gets planted by a rusher over and over and over

make_it_rain
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Sep 11 2012, 10:35 PM) *
Yeah it's just a matter of how much - if I lose my consolation prize is we're 2-0 and just beat one of the top teams in the NFL.


In some books the line is back UP to Eagles -2.5.... even with ~90% of the bets coming in on Baltimore. Generally that suggests the sharps are hammering the Eagles, which is encouraging (not that I necessarily agree with it, but encouraging nonetheless).

I mean, I guess I can see the logic behind it (basically buying the Eagles low after jobbing it in Cle, selling Baltimore high after a big primetime win)......I don't agree but it's still interesting to think that theres enough money out there taking the Birds to move the line a full point or two at some books.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ Sep 12 2012, 11:06 AM) *
In some books the line is back UP to Eagles -2.5.... even with ~90% of the bets coming in on Baltimore. Generally that suggests the sharps are hammering the Eagles, which is encouraging (not that I necessarily agree with it, but encouraging nonetheless).

I mean, I guess I can see the logic behind it (basically buying the Eagles low after jobbing it in Cle, selling Baltimore high after a big primetime win)......I don't agree but it's still interesting to think that theres enough money out there taking the Birds to move the line a full point or two at some books.


Perhaps John Harbaugh, Ray Rice, and Ray Lewis are pooling together $50 million on the birds this Sunday? And they'll just 'have a bad game?' Otherwise yeah, damned if I know what's going on - but my bookie says it's pretty much guaranteed the Ravens will be dogs at kickoff.

*twilight zone music*
mcnabbulous
While I think it's a bit odd...

Maybe, just maybe the sharks aren't overreacting to week 1 the way some people around here are?
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2012, 11:31 AM) *
While I think it's a bit odd...

Maybe, just maybe the sharks aren't overreacting to week 1 the way some people around here are?


huh.gif

Please. We could've trashed the Browns by 40 points and I'd still put money on Balt -7 for all the above reasons mentioned. Whatever, we'll see what happens.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Sep 12 2012, 10:36 AM) *
huh.gif

Please. We could've trashed the Browns by 40 points and I'd still put money on Balt -7 for all the above reasons mentioned. Whatever, we'll see what happens.

Like I said, the line surprises me, but early season NFL football is unpredictable.
nephillymike
FWIW, the line on this game before the regular season started was PHI -3.5.

So there was downward movement, but not as much as expected.

Gamblers beware. There have been several examples of home games where the Eagles were undeserved favorites. I remember a few years ago it was a NYG game I went to. The Eagles killed them, Similar circumstances.

If you want a lead pipe lock Eagles win and cover, all I need to do is take Balt and the points.

But I fell for that trap more than once. I'm now wiser (and lighter in the pocket) becasue of it !!
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 12 2012, 12:12 PM) *
Gamblers beware. There have been several examples of home games where the Eagles were undeserved favorites. I remember a few years ago it was a NYG game I went to. The Eagles killed them, Similar circumstances.

But I fell for that trap more than once. I'm now wiser (and lighter in the pocket) becasue of it !!


I made that mistake once with the Giants too. As a general rule though, it was stupid to begin with to touch an NFC East game. As a general rule I'll never touch one again, within reason of course. For fun I got the line for Dal/NYG last week, NYG -3, and of course most people would agree if they had to choose to take the Giants - yeah, that's why you don't touch rivalry games, especially one where you're at least partially emotionally involved in, whether it's the Eagles or watching other teams knock each other off for position in the standings. No matter what the records are, a good game or an upset is always possible.

Outside of the division I think you can make better choices based on facts and logic, partially because you don't necessarily 'hate' the other team, but that's just me - I made a bunch of dough last year betting on the Bears to beat us, they were 8 point dogs and I dropped a bunch on em on the moneyline, at 300, a major upset - everyone thought I was crazy, and of course it was a nice payday. I just felt like the Bears had our number, which they do.
Reality Fan
What happened when Vick played a top D last year like San Fran? He threw for 400 yds. 8 times out of 13 his completion % was over 60% but he is a terrible passer? It has to be the game plan.......watch him throw the ball and you see the skills but for whatever reason some games he is on fire and others it is like he can't adjust to the game plan and nothing changes in the game. Consistency can be questioned but ability can't. Had he not gotten hurt he would have thrown for close to 4000 yds or more. His INT% last year was better than Phillip Rivers, is Rivers terrible? His problem is that when he is bad he is real bad but it is not a regular occurrence. These are facts without fan passion, just simple facts and looking at his stats from Atlanta is ridiclous for reasons I have already mentioned. That offense plan was an abortion from the get go.

As far as the line goes? It may have to do with the fact that Cincy's backup running back ran all over Baltimore's feared D until Cincy had to throw the ball. Don't forget that Suggs is gone. Baltimore is a good D but it is not Baltimore of 2 years ago.


I am going to go out on a limb and drop a C note on the Eagles.......we shall see who is right.

Dr. Claw
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 11 2012, 06:56 PM) *
Has he learned to play QB? Yes, but now they are trying to make him Peyton Manning and that ain't ever happening. His skill set is not out thinking D's......his skill set is making Ds adjust to him and he still has the speed and the arm.....it just seems that Marty/Andy are hell bent on making him what they want instead of what he is........He played free in 2010....they need to let him play fast and stop all the thinking....pretty simple.



and this is why your name is "Reality Fan".

I've been trying to ignore the gawker-article faithful with that shitshow that was Monday, largely because the Eagles WON. if they had lost I'd be joining it, but it doesn't matter. game's over, Eagles are 1-0, let's move on.

You made very good points about Foles in a typical Andyball offense. I like the guy, but I noticed the same lack of firepower downfield, and Andy/Marty have been loving that kind of play ever since they discovered McNabb could do the same kind of throw (I know it was Andy & Brad years ago, bear with me).

I will retract the statement I made about "being able to plug some 'elite QB' into Andyball and being able to win (everything) to a particular point. that QB would have to be Peyton Manning. and Peyton would STILL need to be given the kind of reign behind center that he is allowed even today with the Broncos.

Brady has more rings, Eli has more rings even (and he is a borderline bum who has been as bad as Vick is, I don't care what his 4th Qtr QB rating is, that's as arbitrary as stat as the T.O. drop count), and others like Brees and Rodgers (the best of the current crop) have the same amount of rings... Peyton is infinitely a better technical QB than all of them. Brady is the closest thing to him, but ironically, the better he's gotten, the more he's tried to be a "hero" (i.e. Favre Ball) --- that, more than anything else cost the Pats the Super Bowl. You don't hear anyone saying that about him, because it's far less frequent than it is with even slightly-lesser QBs (even Brees, who is known to Favre it up from time to time).

all that BS being said, you hit nail on the head. Andyball is so flawed because it requires absolute precision. a Peyton Manning type QB comes only once a generation. one of these days, the Eagles will learn how to make do with what they have. The Giants did, and that's why Forrest Gump is the talk of the division (last season, there was also a HUGE stroke of luck in that Jason Garrett is an blooming idiot, but never mind that).

I felt that the Pats game (last year) would have been won if Andy and Marty had continued what was done in the Giants game prior with Vince Young, who isn't the best QB around... but has a track record of succeeding despite. They had him throwing deep balls his arm just would not allow, to Riley Cooper. Like WTF... he isn't Brett Favre, stop that BS. For all the good you get with Andy, the bad is so frustrating.

Vick has some hurdles himself of which I am not optimistic we'll see crossed before he is dismissed, but I digress.

I think what we're seeing now is people finally getting to release a lot of those pent up "issues" with the signing of Vick, now that the cognitive dissonance caused by him actually performing well is out of the way.
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 11 2012, 11:14 PM) *
They have figured Vick out.

Remember after he was fabulous for the first seven games he played in 2010?

What was the game plan against him in thsoe seven games?

Sit back in zone coverage because he was not thought to be a good pocket passer. Do not DARE blitz him because his legs would make you pay big time.

Then a team figured out that it was best to blitz the SHIT out of him to force him into hurried decisions and rush his reads into a pace he was uncomfortable with. Since he was being trained to be a pocket passer, he would be more reluctant to run from the pocket and make you pay for blitzing him, always hangiing in there to make the last read, even in a blitz spot. This made it less risky to blitz him. Add a few more injuries out of the pocket, and he would be LESS willing to run. The fact that he is short.akes it more difficult for him to beat the blitz by throwing the quick slant b/c ha can't pass over the line from a short drop.


the Cowboys tried to blitz the shit out of Vick (in the first meeting against them) last season... in fact, after watching the Bears and everyone else do it... Rob Ryan couldn't wait to release the blitz hounds.

the result... the game got out of hand real quick in the Eagles' favor thanks to the team making the necessary adjustments to the tune of some 34-0 before the Cowboys finally got a garbage time score.

it's gameplan AND game play.

also, that game w/Feeley you were thinking about was against the Pats in 2007. he threw 3 INTs in a winnable game, all to A$$-ante Samuel IIRC.

I was mad @ Feeley for that one, that was actually one of the gutsiest, angriest, most aggressive Andy Reid-coached games ever. It was almost like those Cowboy matchups where Andy does the homework beforehand.
nephillymike
I'm not betting this game. No way.

As far as Vick goes, I think he throws a beautiful pass, has a great arm and is very accurate. However, against the blitz, forget about it. He has to be able to beat that. If he can't with his quick decision making, he needs to do it with his legs a few times to make them pay. Don't forget, at 5-11, he has trouble throwing the quick slant than a 6-4 guy would have. Have the WR's go deep, instead of cutting off their routes, send the TE down the middle deep, keep a FB in to block send McCoy out wide and down the hash deep and then let MV tuck it an run with the DB's in man to man back to him, he'll kill them. Get them out of the blitz and his rating goes up about 25 pts.

However, I heard Lomabardi on WIP this AM and he said Vick is one of the worst long passers in the NFL with a 33% completion % over 20 yards. That was shocking and didn't jive with what I've seen.
xsv
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 12 2012, 01:21 PM) *
What happened when Vick played a top D last year like San Fran? He threw for 400 yds. 8 times out of 13 his completion % was over 60% but he is a terrible passer? It has to be the game plan.......watch him throw the ball and you see the skills but for whatever reason some games he is on fire and others it is like he can't adjust to the game plan and nothing changes in the game. Consistency can be questioned but ability can't. Had he not gotten hurt he would have thrown for close to 4000 yds or more. His INT% last year was better than Phillip Rivers, is Rivers terrible? His problem is that when he is bad he is real bad but it is not a regular occurrence. These are facts without fan passion, just simple facts and looking at his stats from Atlanta is ridiclous for reasons I have already mentioned. That offense plan was an abortion from the get go.

As far as the line goes? It may have to do with the fact that Cincy's backup running back ran all over Baltimore's feared D until Cincy had to throw the ball. Don't forget that Suggs is gone. Baltimore is a good D but it is not Baltimore of 2 years ago.


I am going to go out on a limb and drop a C note on the Eagles.......we shall see who is right.


I'm not denying he can have good games. Bobby Hoying had a couple of good games. So did Kevin Kolb. Nor am I denying his natural ability. The whole point *is* his consistency.

Mike Vick had exactly 6 good games last year out of the 13 he played in. In 7 other games, he was terrible. Sorry, but someone that plays well less than half the time is not good enough. And are you actually defending him having 18 tds to 14 ints? You know that these numbers are close to his career average? Any qb that throws 18 tds and 14i nts has not had a good season.

Also, In 7 of his last 10 games, he's thrown as many or more interceptions than touchdowns. These are indefensible facts. He just doesn't know how to take care of the ball. Every play with him is either a highlight reel or a disastrous turnover, and as he gets older, it seems to be more and more of the latter.

Time to find a new franchise qb. This guy is approaching the end quickly.


xsv
QUOTE (Dr. Claw @ Sep 12 2012, 01:31 PM) *
it's gameplan AND game play.


Have to agree with that. I'd jettison them both after the season.
Eyrie
QUOTE (Dr. Claw @ Sep 12 2012, 06:26 PM) *
I think what we're seeing now is people finally getting to release a lot of those pent up "issues" with the signing of Vick, now that the cognitive dissonance caused by him actually performing well is out of the way.

I've got Vick's bus fare ready ....

But I'm also fully aware that what he did colours my opinion of him, so I am very careful to concentrate only on the hard facts of his performance. I posted plenty at the time of his signing that he is a poor passer, and was willing to retract that when he had a brief purple patch here in 2010. But combining last year's overall showing and the way he has started 2012, Vick has a lot of convincing to do.

Now I'm not Reid, so convincing me is irrelevant, but I'm sure we'd all be a damned sight happier if he plays well enough to silence his many sceptics.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 12 2012, 12:21 PM) *
Consistency can be questioned but ability can't.

I couldn't agree more with this. When he is on, we have the most explosive offense in football.

I'm not sure he can make it through a deep playoff run with his inconsistencies though. Similar to another guy we're all familiar with.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2012, 02:12 PM) *
I couldn't agree more with this. When he is on, we have the most explosive offense in football.

I'm not sure he can make it through a deep playoff run with his inconsistencies though. Similar to another guy we're all familiar with.

are you referring to our current HC?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 12 2012, 02:27 PM) *
are you referring to our current HC?

No, I hold the guys that have the $100M contracts largely responsible. Or at least more so than you.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 12 2012, 04:52 PM) *
No, I hold the guys that have the $100M contracts largely responsible. Or at least more so than you.

Aaaaah yes, the men who call the plays and recruit the necessary personnel...they hold no responsibility. Makes me wonder why we even need coaches, since their game plans and coaching decisions have no bearing on the outcome.
D Rock
QUOTE (Phits @ Sep 12 2012, 11:23 PM) *
Aaaaah yes, the men who call the plays and recruit the necessary personnel...they hold no responsibility. Makes me wonder why we even need coaches, since their game plans and coaching decisions have no bearing on the outcome.

More absolutist nonsense. That's helpful.

Nobody is giving anybody a pass. But when a $100 million quarterback with a clean pocket throws repeatedly into the belly of the other team's linebackers, it's tough to look beyond said quarterback when attempting to lay blame.

Unless of course one is simply grinding an axe.

Just sayin. . . .

Phits
QUOTE (D Rock @ Sep 12 2012, 06:39 PM) *
More absolutist nonsense. That's helpful.

Nobody is giving anybody a pass. But when a $100 million quarterback with a clean pocket throws repeatedly into the belly of the other team's linebackers, it's tough to look beyond said quarterback when attempting to lay blame.

Unless of course one is simply grinding an axe.

Just sayin. . . .

a: the idiots that gave him a 100m contract need to be fired
b: the idiots that keep trying to make 'inaccurate' QB's pocket passers need to be fired

I'm not worried about Vick, he is who he is, and will likely be gone by next season...probably wont make it through this season. Hopefully by then my axe will finally be sharp enough to cut Reid loose.
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