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xsv
End of an era, IMO.
Zero
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 9 2012, 02:56 PM) *
End of an era, IMO.


Shart game ... Vick sucks
Eyrie
Four ints so far, all bad throws?

Let's see what Foles can do.
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (xsv @ Sep 9 2012, 03:56 PM) *
End of an era, IMO.


No.

Unless you mean the end of the Andy Reid era. Bar about 2 bad throws, the play calling was atrocious.

Shady fumbles and Andy calls for no more running.

The result, more passes down the middle against a defense that isn't respecting the run and 4INTs.

It took until the 4th quarter for Andy Reid to adjust. I'm not sure we would have seen anything better w/Foles with that almost 3-to-1 pass ratio. The AFC North (all teams) had high ranked defenses last year.
koolaidluke
No I think you let him play through and see if he improves. He has a lot of talent. I'm hoping that today was just one of those games.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Dr. Claw @ Sep 9 2012, 05:07 PM) *
No.

Unless you mean the end of the Andy Reid era. Bar about 2 bad throws, the play calling was atrocious.

Shady fumbles and Andy calls for no more running.

The result, more passes down the middle against a defense that isn't respecting the run and 4INTs.

It took until the 4th quarter for Andy Reid to adjust. I'm not sure we would have seen anything better w/Foles with that almost 3-to-1 pass ratio. The AFC North (all teams) had high ranked defenses last year.


odd.....here I thought Marty called the plays........which he does........my guess is that Reid finally said "what the fuck Marty"
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 9 2012, 07:06 PM) *
odd.....here I thought Marty called the plays........which he does........my guess is that Reid finally said "what the fuck Marty"


yeah, whatever the case. that was the biggest problem today.

and it wasn't just that they called so many passes.... they are calling the same kind of passes that they always do. crossing routes that go across the field, plays behind the sticks on 3rd down, PA all day, giving Vick no option to bail on a crap play.

we see this with every QB... the only encouraging thing is that Vick eventually started to say "what the fuck" and threw the ball away more than he usually did... but not enough.

after so many years, opposing teams KNOW what the Eagles are going to do. and apparently, even the Browns have the personnel to see it coming.

How many losses and near-losses will it take for the Birds to finally straighten up and fly right? this really doesn't bode well for playoff hopes.
JeeQ
Vick shares the blame but you can't even think of putting all the blame on him today. First off, 56 passes. 56 Passes? At one point I saw a double defense on Maclin, and a triple defense on Jackson. The best player on our offense is LeSean McCoy and he was completely ignored until midway through the fourth quarter when we were down. The Browns showed total disrespect for the run, chewed up our O-Line and instead of switching it up, 56 passes. Same predictable Andy, and playing against so many former Eagle coaches and players made it even more so.
Jerome Brown Experience
You guys are kidding, right?

I mean.....Andy is getting killed for an offense that had 5 incredibly stupid turnovers but gets no credit for a defense that was lockdown all day?

Andy gets no credit for the "must win" drive that was executed pretty much to spec the whole way down the field in crunch time?

Fine. Whatever.
Phits
QUOTE (Jerome Brown Experience @ Sep 9 2012, 10:03 PM) *
You guys are kidding, right?

I mean.....Andy is getting killed for an offense that had 5 incredibly stupid turnovers but gets no credit for a defense that was lockdown all day?

Andy gets no credit for the "must win" drive that was executed pretty much to spec the whole way down the field in crunch time?

Fine. Whatever.

That's like saying Vick should get a "pass" for 3+ quarters of garbage

I will give AR credit for not losing this game, because this is one of those kind of games that he is famous for. However, somebody had better smarten up....56 pass attempts is inexcusable.
Pbfan
I just saw te highlights, Vick didn't look THAT atrocious... 1 int was right off djax's hands, it was just too fast, but still well thrown. Another he seemed to hit the receiver up the middle but he was double covered and it popped out. I'd say he played a bad/mediocre game, from looking at the stats and highlights, but I wouldn't go insofar as to say he should be benched.
Reality Fan
well suggesting benching him is idiotic......he had a terrible game and Marty called a terrible game......Shurmur knew what Marty would call because he worked for Marty and was with Reid for close to 10 years.....did I mention that Marty called a horrible game?

Vick had what? 10 or 11 preseason snaps in real action, rusty would be an understatement but he had a terrible game but that doesn't mean he sits.......he threw the ball great at times....he just made some god awful decisions......and they had 3 huge plays killed by penalties....the guy I was pissed at was Maclin...he ended up with good numbers but he dogegd a lot of plays......McCoy needed his block to take one to the house and Maclin just stood there....McCoy even bounced up and threw his hands in the air......This is typical of the Eagles unfortunately...the O came out and acted as if they just needed to walk on the field to win, no respect for Cleveland's D and they paid for it...
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (JeeQ @ Sep 9 2012, 07:29 PM) *
Vick shares the blame but you can't even think of putting all the blame on him today. First off, 56 passes. 56 Passes? At one point I saw a double defense on Maclin, and a triple defense on Jackson. The best player on our offense is LeSean McCoy and he was completely ignored until midway through the fourth quarter when we were down. The Browns showed total disrespect for the run, chewed up our O-Line and instead of switching it up, 56 passes. Same predictable Andy, and playing against so many former Eagle coaches and players made it even more so.


Yeah, prepare for 15 more games of this. Don't you know what to expect by now? Reid barely avoided this becoming the 2012 Andy Reid Special.
D Rock
QUOTE (Jerome Brown Experience @ Sep 10 2012, 02:03 AM) *
You guys are kidding, right?

I mean.....Andy is getting killed for an offense that had 5 incredibly stupid turnovers but gets no credit for a defense that was lockdown all day?

Andy gets no credit for the "must win" drive that was executed pretty much to spec the whole way down the field in crunch time?

Fine. Whatever.

Yes to this. Blaming coaching for 5 turn overs is just axe grinding. You hate on Reid? Get in line. Me? Imon b the first on my block to turn up the hate on Vick. It's time to realize fellas that 2010 was an anomaly.

Rick
Reid's playcalling was horrible but nothing different than we've seen for years.

Vick was horrible and was horrible for the same reasons he'll probably never win a SB (I say probably because anything can happen in the NFL)--he still tries to make too much out of nothing. I lost count of how many times he was throwing into doubg and triple coverage trying to force a play. How many times did he run to his left and throw back across the field--one of which was intercepted? How many times was he throwing from his heels trying to make a throw instead of throwing it away or taking the sack? Towards the end he was doing better about this but he's got to stop doing this. That's not being rusty, that's just Vick being Vick.

McCoy fumbling sucked. It was a bad fumble. But I don't expect that to continue. He's not a guy who has a tendency to fumble. Vick, OTOH, does have a tendency to turn the ball over.

Vick looked like he was lost out there for a good portion of the game.

However, part of the reason Vick was in that position was because of the absolute HORRIBLE play of the O line. WTF!!?? That was painful to watch.

The D was absolutely sensational (at times). I was very happy about that. Those highly-paid corners actually covered the receivers. We should have had one or two more interceptions. The defense's play bodes well for our chances at being relevant.

What struck me throughout the game was, when McCoy touched the ball, how much faster he was than ANYONE else on the field. I think he got faster and quicker in the offseason. But, he needs to know when to just go forward and when to stutter and cut back. He ran himself out of a few bigger plays by doing this. He didn't follow his blockers a couple of times. He should have had about 200 yards yesterday if Reid had run the ball a few times and if McCoy hadn't cut back on a few of the plays he actually got to run.

Other than the plays we ran--I don't really expect that to change much--and Vick's just HORRIBLE performance--not sure I expect that to change much either--they looked pretty awesome. I get the feeling we may be squandering our best chance of actually doing something with Vick at QB and bad play calling.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (Jerome Brown Experience @ Sep 10 2012, 03:03 AM) *
You guys are kidding, right?

I mean.....Andy is getting killed for an offense that had 5 incredibly stupid turnovers but gets no credit for a defense that was lockdown all day?

Andy gets no credit for the "must win" drive that was executed pretty much to spec the whole way down the field in crunch time?

Fine. Whatever.


Are you saying that Vick putting the ball on the ground and then passing it through the hands of a Cleveland LBer during that final drive was all according to spec?

Face it, they were very fortunate on that last drive and lucky to get out of Cleveland with a win.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Rick @ Sep 10 2012, 07:02 AM) *
Reid's playcalling was horrible but nothing different than we've seen for years.

Vick was horrible and was horrible for the same reasons he'll probably never win a SB (I say probably because anything can happen in the NFL)--he still tries to make too much out of nothing.


I think this is the whole point, these 2 things go hand in hand. We have a 2,000 yard back behind Vick, he's had 10 or 11 preseason snaps, and he has to pass 56 times - he's GOT to try to make something out of nothing, what's he going to do keep throwing it away? The Browns had him decently covered for scrambling too, our shitty o-line didn't help. We have to call more fucking run plays, then Jackson and Maclin wont be triple and double teamed.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Sep 10 2012, 12:44 PM) *
I think this is the whole point, these 2 things go hand in hand. We have a 2,000 yard back behind Vick, he's had 10 or 11 preseason snaps, and he has to pass 56 times - he's GOT to try to make something out of nothing, what's he going to do keep throwing it away? The Browns had him decently covered for scrambling too, our shitty o-line didn't help. We have to call more fucking run plays, then Jackson and Maclin wont be triple and double teamed.


+100

Until Vick demonstrates that he can read and react to a defense, Andy should rely more on McCoy and the other RBs. I am not saying that the runs should outnumber the passes but the ration we saw yesterday was way out of whack. Having an effective running game always has and always will force a defense to bring the LBers and Safeties closer to the line of scrimmage. This will make Vick's job easier, especially with the speed of our WRs. The performance of the OL is another reason that the running game should get more reps. They demonstrated yesterday that they have a lot of work to do with pass protection and that was against a mediocre DL. The DLs in the NFC East are going to cause them a lot of problems.
Jerome Brown Experience
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 10 2012, 07:56 AM) *
Are you saying that Vick putting the ball on the ground and then passing it through the hands of a Cleveland LBer during that final drive was all according to spec?

Face it, they were very fortunate on that last drive and lucky to get out of Cleveland with a win.


You know DRC did the exact same thing before the Cleveland FG.....right?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 10 2012, 08:00 AM) *
+100

Until Vick demonstrates that he can read and react to a defense, Andy should rely more on McCoy and the other RBs. I am not saying that the runs should outnumber the passes but the ration we saw yesterday was way out of whack. Having an effective running game always has and always will force a defense to bring the LBers and Safeties closer to the line of scrimmage. This will make Vick's job easier, especially with the speed of our WRs. The performance of the OL is another reason that the running game should get more reps. They demonstrated yesterday that they have a lot of work to do with pass protection and that was against a mediocre DL. The DLs in the NFC East are going to cause them a lot of problems.


Shady had 26 touches yesterday. While Vick played like horseshit at times, our offense moved the ball with no problem. He obviously made some terrible decisions.

With that said, he needed reps after seeing no time in the preseason. Additionally, as bad as he played, I'm not sure I'd feel very comfortable relying on a 7th round rookie running back, and Shady was clearly not under utilized.
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 10 2012, 09:00 AM) *
+100

Until Vick demonstrates that he can read and react to a defense, Andy should rely more on McCoy and the other RBs. I am not saying that the runs should outnumber the passes but the ration we saw yesterday was way out of whack. Having an effective running game always has and always will force a defense to bring the LBers and Safeties closer to the line of scrimmage. This will make Vick's job easier, especially with the speed of our WRs. The performance of the OL is another reason that the running game should get more reps. They demonstrated yesterday that they have a lot of work to do with pass protection and that was against a mediocre DL. The DLs in the NFC East are going to cause them a lot of problems.


not only that, Andy/Marty could also not call play-action pass so much. Vick has no options to bail himself out besides run away on those type of plays. this was a playcalling problem going all the way back to McNabb. But now that the Eagles have 4RBs on the roster, this is just absolutely atrocious.

and those deep crossing (from one side to the field to the other routes)... CMON Andy, those things take 20 000 years to develop.

Vick made some horrible decisions, and I'm not going to give him a pass for that, but when you look closely at the plays called, it's no wonder Vick was doing some of the BS he was trying to do. If anything, Vick should just throw the ball away if he doesn't see the play turning into anything.

The RBs missed a few blocking assignments on those blitzers. I saw Shady run right pass a CB going right at Vick.

CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 10 2012, 03:01 PM) *
Shady had 26 touches yesterday. While Vick played like horseshit at times, our offense moved the ball with no problem. He obviously made some terrible decisions.

With that said, he needed reps after seeing no time in the preseason. Additionally, as bad as he played, I'm not sure I'd feel very comfortable relying on a 7th round rookie running back, and Shady was clearly not under utilized.



I don't have the stats in front of me so maybe you can fill me in. How many of those touches were hand-offs vs. passes?
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (Dr. Claw @ Sep 10 2012, 03:10 PM) *
not only that, Andy/Marty could also not call play-action pass so much. Vick has no options to bail himself out besides run away on those type of plays. this was a playcalling problem going all the way back to McNabb. But now that the Eagles have 4RBs on the roster, this is just absolutely atrocious.

and those deep crossing (from one side to the field to the other routes)... CMON Andy, those things take 20 000 years to develop.

Vick made some horrible decisions, and I'm not going to give him a pass for that, but when you look closely at the plays called, it's no wonder Vick was doing some of the BS he was trying to do. If anything, Vick should just throw the ball away if he doesn't see the play turning into anything.

The RBs missed a few blocking assignments on those blitzers. I saw Shady run right pass a CB going right at Vick.


You touched on something that should be very obvious. Why would a defense bite on a play-action pass when they know that the Eagles are pass happy? Not establishing a threat in the running game neuters play action passes.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 10 2012, 10:16 AM) *
I don't have the stats in front of me so maybe you can fill me in. How many of those touches were hand-offs vs. passes?

20 rushes - 6 receptions. He also had a few plays negated due to penalty. So probably closer to 29 or 30 touches.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 10 2012, 11:23 AM) *
20 rushes - 6 receptions. He also had a few plays negated due to penalty. So probably closer to 29 or 30 touches.


Going into the 4th quarter, there were 46 pass plays called (6 scrambles), and 15 run plays called, 12 of them to Shady. That works out to 75/25 pass/run. While we all appreciate the ghost on the sideline who reminded Andy we have a 2,000 yard back in the huddle, it was too late, and he was obviously way under-utilized for the first 3 quarters - which is why we came so close to the AR Special in week 1 - in fact, this game was eerily similar to the Oakland one you were complaining about me bringing up the other day - I'm 'cherry-picking?'
D Rock
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Sep 10 2012, 03:33 PM) *
Going into the 4th quarter ... That works out to 75/25 pass/run.

No it doesn't. That's just an imcomplete data set (you know . . . "Cherry Picking" your stats). Play calling seldom looks very good when the goddam quarterback can't execute.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Sep 10 2012, 10:33 AM) *
Going into the 4th quarter, there were 46 pass plays called (6 scrambles), and 15 run plays called, 12 of them to Shady. That works out to 75/25 pass/run. While we all appreciate the ghost on the sideline who reminded Andy we have a 2,000 yard back in the huddle, it was too late, and he was obviously way under-utilized for the first 3 quarters - which is why we came so close to the AR Special in week 1 - in fact, this game was eerily similar to the Oakland one you were complaining about me bringing up the other day - I'm 'cherry-picking?'


Like I said, Vick needs reps. We had no business losing that game yesterday, under any circumstances. We could have thrown the ball 100% of the time and we still should have dominated. Vick played like shit because he saw no action in the preseason, but it made sense to get him those reps yesterday.

Every hit McCoy takes early in the season is going to make him less effective later. You guys are so hung up on the run/pass ratio that you can't look at the big picture.

Yes, if we had lost that game, we could have looked at the playcalling as a reason. The bigger reason was the guys on the field, though. Specifically Vick.

If he plays that way next week, we lose. Even if we run the ball 50% of the time. Bottom line - it made sense to get him those reps against a team we should be under any and all circumstances.
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 10 2012, 03:41 PM) *
Vick played like shit because he saw no action in the preseason,

Nah. Vick played like shit because he's not a very good quarterback and wasn't seeing the field (locked onto receivers, throwing into double n triple coverage, and not seeing open guys on the other side of the field too often).
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 10 2012, 03:41 PM) *
but it made sense to get him those reps yesterday.

He certainly needs them. Sadly, 2010 was an anomaly. Actually, the league had figured him out 2/3rds into 2010. The last third of 2010 to now is what he is.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 10 2012, 03:41 PM) *
Like I said, Vick needs reps. We had no business losing that game yesterday, under any circumstances. We could have thrown the ball 100% of the time and we still should have dominated. Vick played like shit because he saw no action in the preseason, but it made sense to get him those reps yesterday.

Every hit McCoy takes early in the season is going to make him less effective later. You guys are so hung up on the run/pass ratio that you can't look at the big picture.

Yes, if we had lost that game, we could have looked at the playcalling as a reason. The bigger reason was the guys on the field, though. Specifically Vick.

If he plays that way next week, we lose. Even if we run the ball 50% of the time. Bottom line - it made sense to get him those reps against a team we should be under any and all circumstances.



I have no problem getting Vick his reps. He did not get them in the pre-season so fine, get them against a weak Cleveland team. However, you have to win this game. One game in September can make a difference. How many games did we miss the playoffs by last year? Reid needed to switch to a more run oriented approach earlier in this game than he did. In-game adjustments have always been one of Reid's biggest weaknesses and it showed up again yesterday.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Sep 10 2012, 10:49 AM) *
Nah. Vick played like shit because he's not a very good quarterback and wasn't seeing the field (locked onto receivers, throwing into double n triple coverage, and not seeing open guys on the other side of the field too often).

It's hard to make an argument otherwise, but seeing reps against a real defense in a game situation should help resolve some of those issues.

The oddest thing about Vick is the interceptions. He used to be pretty smart about not throwing the ball into terrible spots, because he would use his legs when stuff wasn't there. Now he forces the ball everywhere.

QUOTE
He certainly needs them. Sadly, 2010 was an anomaly. Actually, the league had figured him out 2/3rds into 2010. The last third of 2010 to now is what he is.

This is hard to argue.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 10 2012, 10:50 AM) *
However, you have to win this game.

We did.

Here is a link to the box score.

HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (D Rock @ Sep 10 2012, 11:39 AM) *
No it doesn't. That's just an imcomplete data set (you know . . . "Cherry Picking" your stats). Play calling seldom looks very good when the goddam quarterback can't execute.


This seems to be a constant trend from all of our 'fraud' QBs over the years - isn't it at all possible that when the entire goddam defense, their coaching staff, and every fan in the stands knows you're going to pass, it makes it significantly harder for the QB to execute? What is incomplete about the first 3 quarters stats I showed? And why is it so hard to make the connection that in the 4th, when we started balancing the attack a bit, we started moving the ball more consistently?
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 10 2012, 11:41 AM) *
If he plays that way next week, we lose. Even if we run the ball 50% of the time. Bottom line - it made sense to get him those reps against a team we should be under any and all circumstances.


If he plays that way anytime for the rest of the season, we lose. He could've 'gotten his reps' without 60 pass plays being called, as this was absolutely a game we need to put in the W column - while we pulled it out, it was way to close for my comfort.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Sep 10 2012, 11:01 AM) *
And why is it so hard to make the connection that in the 4th, when we started balancing the attack a bit, we started moving the ball more consistently?

On our final, game-winning, drive; we dropped back to pass 12 of 16 times. That is 75% pass/run.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 10 2012, 12:08 PM) *
On our final, game-winning, drive; we dropped back to pass 12 of 16 times. That is 75% pass/run.


Yes, at that point we had ran enough so everyone in Cleveland couldn't predict exactly what was coming.....
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Sep 10 2012, 11:21 AM) *
Yes, at that point we had ran enough so everyone in Cleveland couldn't predict exactly what was coming.....

You're hilarious.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 10 2012, 04:01 PM) *


No reason to be a smart ass. I am aware we won the game.

My point was that we needed to win this game and Reid should have abandoned his pass happy attack when it was obvious to all that it was not effective and he was subjected a fragile Vick to a lot of physical abuse.
D Rock
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Sep 10 2012, 04:01 PM) *
This seems to be a constant trend from all of our 'fraud' QBs over the years - isn't it at all possible that when the entire goddam defense, their coaching staff, and every fan in the stands knows you're going to pass, it makes it significantly harder for the QB to execute? What is incomplete about the first 3 quarters stats I showed? And why is it so hard to make the connection that in the 4th, when we started balancing the attack a bit, we started moving the ball more consistently?

Ask that question to Tom Brady and his ilk.

That's the definition of a quality offense. When the whole stadium knows whats coming and they still can't stop it.

It's an inomplete data set because looking at 3 quarters is meaningless. You don't win or lose a quarter. You don't win or lose 3 of em. You win or lose games. And for the game . . . McCoy had 20 runs and 6 catches. From where I sit, that's pretty much the ideal workload. And is it so shocking to you that any running back get more carries in the 4th quarter? Seems pretty much the trend over the last 30-40 years or so.

Again, if the quarterback would have executed ANYTHING in the first 3 quarters, nobody would be complaining about play calling. Vick stunk up the joint. Plain and Simple.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 10 2012, 12:24 PM) *
You're hilarious.


Yes, it's amazing how right after the 6 run 3 pass drive in the 4th, they came back with 75/25 and it worked, while it hadn't worked in the previous 3 quarters. Hilarious.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (D Rock @ Sep 10 2012, 12:38 PM) *
Ask that question to Tom Brady and his ilk.


Let's get Brady, then we can pass 80% of the time - deal?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 10 2012, 11:35 AM) *
No reason to be a smart ass. I am aware we won the game.

Chop bustin, fellow adult. Chop bustin.

QUOTE
My point was that we needed to win this game and Reid should have abandoned his pass happy attack when it was obvious to all that it was not effective and he was subjected a fragile Vick to a lot of physical abuse.

We had several runs called back due to holding penalties, thus skewing the numbers. We moved the ball all over the field.

The play calling wasn't the problem. The turnovers were.

Vick being humbled in a week one win is the absolute best thing that could have happened to our season. I'm on record as saying that I don't know if we have a SB team (because of Vick), but him getting his ass handed to him by Cleveland may be the very thing he needs to make better decisions moving forward.
D Rock
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Sep 10 2012, 04:43 PM) *
Let's get Brady, then we can pass 80% of the time - deal?

So you now stipulate to the fact that our quarterback is sub par?
D Rock
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 10 2012, 04:44 PM) *
The play calling wasn't the problem. The turnovers were.

jumpclap.gif jumpclap.gif jumpclap.gif

I hate to laud common sense as genius, but around here . . . you take what you can get.

laugh.gif
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Sep 10 2012, 11:43 AM) *
Let's get Brady, then we can pass 80% of the time - deal?

If you think we're winning a SB with McCoy running the ball 25-30 times per game, you're crazy. The only chance we have is if Vick plays good to great football.

We moved the ball all game yesterday. The problem was turnovers, not playcalling.
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (D Rock @ Sep 10 2012, 12:38 PM) *
Ask that question to Tom Brady and his ilk.

That's the definition of a quality offense. When the whole stadium knows whats coming and they still can't stop it.


Tom Brady is playing from an infinitely superior playbook than the old Reid "play-action" fest.

here's why all that play action that Andy calls sucks:

-- The QB has his back to the defense for the start of the play.

-- THERE ARE NO HOT READS. what difference do it make if a WR breaks off a '9' to a quick slant or hitch if the QB is carrying out a play fake to the other side of the field???? there are no 'hots' on PA, so you don't give your QB the option to bail on a bad play vs. pressure. Guaranteed that Brady has a lot more of these at his disposal.

-- you are gambling that you are influencing the LBs and safeties with the playfake. and Cleveland wasn't buying the BS.

-- you can end up with a half-field read on boot fakes, allowing defenses to roll coverage strong, so you get a combination of man and zone, and teams know the Eagles' route tendencies.

the other problem with the Eagles' playbook is diversity in the pass patterns.

for some reason, Andy/Marty loves to call shallow cross routes with a barely 6'0" QB behind 6'8" linemen. the shorter the route, across the middle, the only way the ball can be completed is through a lane, or some kind of sidearm delivery, which we saw Vick using a whole lot yesterday.

You saw Maclin get messed up on one of those (because when teams mix man and zone coverage, you lead the receiver, but if they did not effectively clear out the CB, that CB is laying in the background, ready to strike. that's how Desean's career almost ended, remember?)

I have no doubt that Andy Reid knows a shit load of football to make up a playbook. So why does he not look at what he has on his team and use it accordingly?

The Pats do. And for years, they played it safe with Brady. Now that they know what they have, they unleash the quick-strike playbook with a quickness. If the Eagles would do the same thing with their QBs...

I say this not to absolve Vick of the shit he did yesterday (and it WAS shit. he made the wrong decisions, trying to FORCE a completion in the wrong place instead of just throwing the ball away like a professional). But plugging an "elite" QB into Andy Reid's playbook is NOT going to produce different results. this isn't basketball... every player, and the coach counts more than anything else.
CT_Eagle
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 10 2012, 04:44 PM) *
The play calling wasn't the problem. The turnovers were.


The play calling made Cleveland's job of forcing turnovers easier. When a defense does not have to worry about the run and gets drop extra players into coverage, it makes it more difficult for a QB to find an open receiver.Especially when the QB is locking onto his receivers and throwing into double and triple coverage. I give Cle some credit here as well. They did a good job blitzing Vick and the OL did a lousy job of picking up the blitzes.

I am not saying the play calling was the only problem. My point is that once it was obvious that Vick was having a shit day the focus should have shifted to running the ball a little more in order to take the pressure off of Vick. Andy did not do that until late in the 4th and it almost cost him the game. A fortunate bounce on Vick's fumble and a LBer with hands of well, a LBer, was all that kept us from losing that game.
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 10 2012, 12:44 PM) *
Vick being humbled in a week one win is the absolute best thing that could have happened to our season. I'm on record as saying that I don't know if we have a SB team (because of Vick), but him getting his ass handed to him by Cleveland may be the very thing he needs to make better decisions moving forward.


In retrospect, I agree. better now, than in Week 10 or 12.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 10 2012, 12:47 PM) *
We moved the ball all game yesterday. The problem was turnovers, not playcalling.

The problem is always play calling. When a coach sees his players aren't benefiting from the plays he has dialled up, he should be adjusting to help establish a flow. Otherwise you bench them until they smarten up. I could give a rats ass whether it is Marty or Reid calling the plays, ultimately the HC is responsible. The The way the plays were called made me think this was a game of Madden instead of a regular season NFL game.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (CT_Eagle @ Sep 10 2012, 12:55 PM) *
The play calling made Cleveland's job of forcing turnovers easier. When a defense does not have to worry about the run and gets drop extra players into coverage, it makes it more difficult for a QB to find an open receiver.Especially when the QB is locking onto his receivers and throwing into double and triple coverage.


jumpclap.gif EUREKA!
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (D Rock @ Sep 10 2012, 12:45 PM) *
So you now stipulate to the fact that our quarterback is sub par?


Sub-par? No, I think he's a top-10 QB. Worse than Brady/Brees/Rodgers/Stafford? Of course. Not many QBs can handle that kind of pass load without sucking up the joint.
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