Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Vick and Reid's Rankings
Eagles Forum > Philadelphia Eagles Message Board > Philadelphia Eagles or Football Related Discussion
nephillymike
So me and tow other Philly sports fans are watching the Phils about to lose yet another game last night and we started discussing Vick's unhappiness of his ranking in the NFL rankings being aired this offseason. (He's 70th). We kind of thought that was better than what we would have ranked him based on last year especially, and every other year of his NFL career except 2010. So here's the question we threw around. You could pick any QB to play for your team for this season, that would give your team the best chance to win. Assuming the QB would pick up your system right away and not giving any edge to someone who was already in your system. Who would be selected above Vick?

All three of us had (in no order), Rogers, Brees, Brady, Schaub, P. Manning and Rivers ahead of Vick
I also had Eli and Rothlisberger ahead of him, so Vick was 9th on my list.

The one guy had Rothlisberger ahead, so Vick was 8th.

The third guy had Stafford, Ryan and Newton (not Roth) ahead of him so Vick was 10th.

So his draft selection in this small sample was 8th, 9th or 10th.

Then we did the same thing for Reid. You're Jeff Lurie and you can pick any other coach in the NFL to come in and run your team for a year. How many would be selelcted ahead of Reid?

All three of us had McCarthy, S. Peyton, Jim Harbaugh, Bellicheat, Tobin and John Harbaugh ahead of Reid.

Two of us had only those above, so we had Reid ranked 7th.

The third guy also added Coughlin ahead of Reid, so he had Reid 8th.

So there you have it, 8th, 9th and 10th for Vick and 7th, 7th and 8th for Reid.

Is that combo good enough to get us a ring this year??

HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 22 2012, 07:47 PM) *
So there you have it, 8th, 9th and 10th for Vick and 7th, 7th and 8th for Reid.

Is that combo good enough to get us a ring this year??


I think you can answer that for yourself.
_KAMELOT_
I'd say yes if we field a top-3 defense and an offense that makes Vick look like a top-5 QB.
Zero
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 22 2012, 06:47 PM) *


Sounds like your optimism has gone down the shore.

Too many so-so coachs and/or QBs have won the SB. Barry Switzer comes to mind. Billick/Dilfer. Yes, this team can. Now we get to see if they do and I hope to enjoy the process.

Besides, the only reason the Eagles haven't won multiple championships since Reid has been here is Joe Banner and he's gone. laugh.gif
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 25 2012, 05:19 AM) *
Sounds like your optimism has gone down the shore.

Too many so-so coachs and/or QBs have won the SB. Barry Switzer comes to mind. Billick/Dilfer.



pre 2004? ancient history.

trophies nowadays go to top tier coaches or QBs...or both on the same team.

Vick is good. Reid is good. there is no doubt of that. one or the other (or both) must rise to the better than good realm if you hope for more than a playoff win or two depending on schedule
Reality Fan
ok....might as well add my 2 cents...

First....who is Tobin?.....next....did Harbaugh win a SB when I wasn't looking? or did he take over a team loaded with Pro bowlers that underachieved the previous year? I mean really.....look at the D he inherited.....and his brother has one year under his belt and he is god?...I get Bellicheck and Peyton.....not sold on McCarthy....he was handed his QB.....he is a good coach but not head and shoulders above Reid....but he did unload Favre...and I would probably put Coughlin in front of Reid.

Damn you are fickle Mikey......and who the hell is Tobin?
Flying Dutchman
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 5 2012, 01:59 AM) *
ok....might as well add my 2 cents...

First....who is Tobin?.....next....did Harbaugh win a SB when I wasn't looking? or did he take over a team loaded with Pro bowlers that underachieved the previous year? I mean really.....look at the D he inherited.....and his brother has one year under his belt and he is god?...I get Bellicheck and Peyton.....not sold on McCarthy....he was handed his QB.....he is a good coach but not head and shoulders above Reid....but he did unload Favre...and I would probably put Coughlin in front of Reid.

Damn you are fickle Mikey......and who the hell is Tobin?


Not to defend Reid, but Coughlin doesn't even make the post-season if it wasn't gift-wrapped for him by ....ahem....the Iggles. Likewise he and Shely don't grab the first SB win without an impossible catch by a guy who never before and never after did diddly. Hell, how good really is Bellicheat? Without his illegal spying and electronic evesdropping, half of his resume goes up in smoke. He should have been kicked out of the NFL. Harbaugh did a good job for one year as you note and it was in a very weak conf.
D Rock
in effort to be brief.

You guys gave Vick more credit than he deserves and made up for it by being too hard on Reid.

I'd put Vick about 10th (considering his whole career) and Reid 4th or 5th (same consideration).

Dreagon
QUOTE (Flying Dutchman @ Jul 8 2012, 04:57 PM) *
Not to defend Reid, but Coughlin doesn't even make the post-season if it wasn't gift-wrapped for him by ....ahem....the Iggles. Likewise he and Shely don't grab the first SB win without an impossible catch by a guy who never before and never after did diddly. Hell, how good really is Bellicheat? Without his illegal spying and electronic evesdropping, half of his resume goes up in smoke. He should have been kicked out of the NFL. Harbaugh did a good job for one year as you note and it was in a very weak conf.


The only reason Eli was the MVP in that first Super Bowl was because they couldn't give it and the truck that came along with it to the entire Giants defense. They are the ones who held a Brady led offense that had been scoring thirty and forty point games all season to fourteen points...and the awesome Eli only put up seventeen against a defense not near as good. I was actually rooting for the giants in that game, because I hated the patriots, but the idea that Eli was MVP made me want to gag. The only clutch thing there was Tyree making an unbelievable catch on a ball that was basically thrown up for grabs.
Jerome Brown Experience
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Jul 9 2012, 03:46 AM) *
The only reason Eli was the MVP in that first Super Bowl was because they couldn't give it and the truck that came along with it to the entire Giants defense. They are the ones who held a Brady led offense that had been scoring thirty and forty point games all season to fourteen points...and the awesome Eli only put up seventeen against a defense not near as good. I was actually rooting for the giants in that game, because I hated the patriots, but the idea that Eli was MVP made me want to gag. The only clutch thing there was Tyree making an unbelievable catch on a ball that was basically thrown up for grabs.


Tough call. Eli played exactly the game he needed to - he didn't make mistakes and he didn't give Brady and co. a short field, which allowed the defense to take the shots that they did. While I agree that defenses are not given appropriate credit in SB victories (see "Tom Brady's SB victories") I would argue that Eli's contribution in this game is undervalued a bit by fans of the game.

Having said that though.....man did Tuck, Strahan and Umeniyora play incredible games. They were tremendous and Brady couldn't or didn't adjust.
Phits
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Jul 9 2012, 03:46 AM) *
The only clutch thing there was Tyree making an unbelievable catch on a ball that was basically thrown up for grabs.

The only reason the pass got off was because Eli was cool under pressure. He made an unbelievable move behind the LOS to avoid getting sacked and put the ball where it had to be while running for his life.

Dreagon
QUOTE (Phits @ Jul 10 2012, 10:40 AM) *
The only reason the pass got off was because Eli was cool under pressure. He made an unbelievable move behind the LOS to avoid getting sacked and put the ball where it had to be while running for his life.


I'll give him credit for the escape. That part was really good. But the throw could have just as easily been come down with by a defender. Tyree made that throw the success it was.
Jerome Brown Experience
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Jul 10 2012, 12:21 PM) *
I'll give him credit for the escape. That part was really good. But the throw could have just as easily been come down with by a defender. Tyree made that throw the success it was.


It could have been, but Rodney Harrison did not make the play. The play is fascinating for the number of small mistakes made by the Patriots all cumulating in a disaster.

Manning's subsequent march to the end zone and the perfect throw to Burress were also most impressive.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Jerome Brown Experience @ Jul 10 2012, 12:56 PM) *
It could have been, but Rodney Harrison did not make the play. The play is fascinating for the number of small mistakes made by the Patriots all cumulating in a disaster.

Manning's subsequent march to the end zone and the perfect throw to Burress were also most impressive.


if you watch that play again it was a terrible pass and a bad decision but Tyree's incredible catch made all that disappear......there was nothing clutch about it other than the WR making a near impossible play but certainly nothing Eli did was clutch. I don't hate the guy like some here so it is no sour grapes on my part but he was not in any way special in the game and even the throw to Burress was pretty simple with the CB on his knees after tripping over his own 2 feet......who we later signed....lol
D Rock
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Jul 10 2012, 04:21 PM) *
I'll give him credit for the escape. That part was really good. But the throw could have just as easily been come down with by a defender. Tyree made that throw the success it was.

Im with Phits on this'n. That throw was put in the place where only the receiver had a shot. No defender got a hand on that ball or was close to making the play. The underneath coverage was beat by a good margin (making the ball high for Tyree). The catch was more circus than required.
D Rock
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 10 2012, 08:37 PM) *
if you watch that play again it was a terrible pass and a bad decision but Tyree's incredible catch made all that disappear......there was nothing clutch about it other than the WR making a near impossible play but certainly nothing Eli did was clutch. I don't hate the guy like some here so it is no sour grapes on my part but he was not in any way special in the game and even the throw to Burress was pretty simple with the CB on his knees after tripping over his own 2 feet......who we later signed....lol

Disagree. It was a tough catch. But Tyree made it tougher than it needed to be. He went to the only option and put the ball in that place where only the receiver had a shot at it. It was clutch all the way.
Jerome Brown Experience
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 10 2012, 04:37 PM) *
if you watch that play again it was a terrible pass and a bad decision but Tyree's incredible catch made all that disappear......there was nothing clutch about it other than the WR making a near impossible play but certainly nothing Eli did was clutch. I don't hate the guy like some here so it is no sour grapes on my part but he was not in any way special in the game and even the throw to Burress was pretty simple with the CB on his knees after tripping over his own 2 feet......who we later signed....lol


I'm not sure though......I mean, if that isn't at least a little clutch then what is? He evades a sack, buys time and throws a 35 yard ball with 3 guys coming up on him pretty hard. Is the ball perfect? Heck no. But it is pretty darned good and he throws it to the right guy.

Given that it is the SB and 3rd and 5 I have to think that is somewhat clutch, no?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ Jul 10 2012, 05:35 PM) *
Disagree. It was a tough catch. But Tyree made it tougher than it needed to be. He went to the only option and put the ball in that place where only the receiver had a shot at it. It was clutch all the way.


He did? I had yo go back and look at it again....and no.....he threw it to a place where Harrison should have made a play.... furthermore, he escaped the pocket....(terrible tackling by the Pats but I credit Eli with getting out) and then had time to set his feet, plant and throw and threw it over the head of Tyree and to the side that the safety was on.....it was an incredible catch by Tyree who did the only thing he could including jumping 3 feet in the air.....he should have hit him in the numbers, it wasn't like he was throwing on the run....

here it is.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27XeNefwABw

and here is Ellis Hobbs tripping over his own feet when he had to know what was coming....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey4VdWauoYQ
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Jerome Brown Experience @ Jul 11 2012, 10:51 AM) *
I'm not sure though......I mean, if that isn't at least a little clutch then what is? He evades a sack, buys time and throws a 35 yard ball with 3 guys coming up on him pretty hard. Is the ball perfect? Heck no. But it is pretty darned good and he throws it to the right guy.

Given that it is the SB and 3rd and 5 I have to think that is somewhat clutch, no?


While I am one of the few here that thinks Eli is a good QB that throw and the TD to Burress did not impress me. The reason is that he threw the ball into triple coverage and a circus catch was the only reason it did not get picked while he had 2 other options, one in single coverage........it worked out and it may be nit picking but I remember watching the game and thinking it was ridiculous that he was the MVP after the performance of that D line
D Rock
It didn't "impress you?" At least it won a super bowl. I suppose Eliza will have to settle for that.

rolleyes.gif

biggrin.gif
Jerome Brown Experience
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jul 11 2012, 08:29 PM) *
While I am one of the few here that thinks Eli is a good QB that throw and the TD to Burress did not impress me. The reason is that he threw the ball into triple coverage and a circus catch was the only reason it did not get picked while he had 2 other options, one in single coverage........it worked out and it may be nit picking but I remember watching the game and thinking it was ridiculous that he was the MVP after the performance of that D line



I don't disagree with you, but in this instance who on the D-line would you have given it to? Strahan was a beast who was double-teamed a lot, which opened up the gaps for Tuck. Tuck played out of his gourd and Umenyiora probably played the best game of his career (non-Winston Justice division). I think Eli's game in that SB was a bit underrated.

I am not sure that you are right that he threw into triple coverage though; Harrison definitely should have been closer on him, but I think what you see are the corner and the two safeties come up on Tyree as the ball is in the air. It's tough to say because when a play goes on for that long the coverage gets all wonky, but it looked to me like the corners were covering receivers (who were better than Tyree) on the outside and then they started to converge while the ball was in the air. Who knows though.

I loved watching Belichick walk off like a jilted teenage girl not shaking Coughlin's hand. That team really were a total bunch of toolbags.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ Jul 12 2012, 01:08 PM) *
It didn't "impress you?" At least it won a super bowl. I suppose Eliza will have to settle for that.

rolleyes.gif

biggrin.gif


I forgot to put into toolbagese for chuckle heads......after you silly comment on how tyree "made it harder than he needed to" I figured I would post the video and let you realize what an idiotic comment that had been and not bust your chops directly...my fault....what should Tyree have done? jumped 6 feet in the air so his body could protect the ball and he would catch it in the numbers?......now......by saying I was not impressed was not for the edification of Eli........it was merely my opinion that neither was a great throw or anything to say "wow" about. Eli's pocket escape was but the throw, and the highlight clearly shows, was one where he has time to plant and step into the throw....and the timing route to Burress was simple because Ellis Hobbs tripped himself up off the line...


HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 22 2012, 07:47 PM) *
All three of us had (in no order), Rogers, Brees, Brady, Schaub, P. Manning and Rivers ahead of Vick
I also had Eli and Rothlisberger ahead of him, so Vick was 9th on my list.

The third guy also added Coughlin ahead of Reid, so he had Reid 8th.


The pass to Tyree was unbelievably good and clutch, all things considered. Seriously, to this day I watch the video and think it's a Madden '04 glitch where the QB/RB keeps spinning and runs through 8 guys. It looks comical in fact that he wasn't brought down - and with heavy pressure still on him, making a great throw. Great catch obviously too, though it looks like he put some krazy glue on his gloves.

We can make all the BS excuses we want (we've been doing it for over a decade), and I personally hate Eli, but the fact is he's clutch, and he's a winner. He's better than Vick.

Tom Coughlin has 2 rings, and has won both by outdueling the coach Reid lost to, in charge of two of the best football squads ever put together. He's better than Reid. End of story.




Flying Dutchman
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Jul 14 2012, 05:26 PM) *
The pass to Tyree was unbelievably good and clutch, all things considered. Seriously, to this day I watch the video and think it's a Madden '04 glitch where the QB/RB keeps spinning and runs through 8 guys. It looks comical in fact that he wasn't brought down - and with heavy pressure still on him, making a great throw. Great catch obviously too, though it looks like he put some krazy glue on his gloves.

We can make all the BS excuses we want (we've been doing it for over a decade), and I personally hate Eli, but the fact is he's clutch, and he's a winner. He's better than Vick.

Tom Coughlin has 2 rings, and has won both by outdueling the coach Reid lost to, in charge of two of the best football squads ever put together. He's better than Reid. End of story.

The Bellicheat that Reid lost to, and the Belichick that Coughlin beat to are two entirely different teams and situations. The video espionage of those years has been proven albeit downplayed and whitewashed by NoGoodell who broke off all investigation and destroyed the evidence before the media or congress could get into it. The electronic espionage that many also reported in Bellicheat's hayday was buried and NEVER examined by NoGoodell. I worked in that business for Uncle Sam and I have no doubt how easily he could have intercepted the signals and gone undetected. No wonder several Iggles players commented on the Pats calling out their plays as if they had been in their huddle.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Flying Dutchman @ Jul 15 2012, 06:26 PM) *
No wonder several Iggles players commented on the Pats calling out their plays as if they had been in their huddle.


You get no argument from me on this, I remember thinking 'why the hell do they keep sniffing out every blitz' during the Iggles vs. Pats Super Bowl. However, IMO the 18-0 Pats who the VaGiants made 18-1 were better then the squad we faced in the SB.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2017 Invision Power Services, Inc.