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D Rock
I like pretty much all we've done. Dunno nuthing bout the AZ QB, but who cares? The defensive picks were stellar.

And for the record, in the "which LB should we draft" thread . . .

I responded Kuechly if he falls to us. If not, take Cox and go Kendricks in the 2nd. I must be a phuqing genius or sumpin....

hunch.gif
Eyrie
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 28 2012, 04:20 AM) *
I must be a phuqing genius or sumpin....

Must resist temptation wink.gif Good calls though.

At this stage I'm happy with three of the four picks, but don't like Foles. We could have had Boykin for the slot and returns rather than a mid-round QB. Given the projected strength of the 2013 QB class, we'd have been better to take a late round pick or UDFA this year, then looked at QB in the first two rounds next year.

Our super-genius head coach has struck again. Remember how much use we got from Kolb when we took a QB a couple of years too early?
Zero
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 27 2012, 10:20 PM) *
I like pretty much all we've done. Dunno nuthing bout the AZ QB, but who cares? The defensive picks were stellar.

And for the record, in the "which LB should we draft" thread . . .

I responded Kuechly if he falls to us. If not, take Cox and go Kendricks in the 2nd. I must be a phuqing genius or sumpin.... hunch.gif

After reading up on Cox, Kendricks and Curry, I'm pretty optimistic that the defense is going to show some real improvement this year. Adding two highly rated DL, a reportedly "stud" LB to play along side Ryans in the middle, smoothing out the CBs and adding a good DB coach should go a long ways to stopping all the hemorrhaging we saw from that unit last year. Damn, if that DL can play on the field the way it looks on paper right now it could be a long year for opposing QBs.

Like you, I'm fairly ambivalent about the QB except that he took up a 3rd round pick ... but, oh well. Most here believed the offense was good enough if Vick played within himself and stayed on the field. I'd rather of seen them add a big receiver with that pick and maybe work a trade with Cleveland to add Colt McCoy as the back up ... I'm guessing they won't be keeping McCoy after drafting Weeden.

The last piece should be a slot corner who can step in and play now. Boykin sounds good because he's supposedly a good RS too and he's still out there. I'd like to see the Eagles use their remaining arsenal of picks to move around and get a couple of good players instead of a truck load of bodies ... they've already got enough young players.

Go Howie.
_KAMELOT_
I liked Cox and Foles weeks before the draft, I 'm so happy we got them. I liked Zach Brown more than Kendricks, though. As for Curry, he was the best available and since Graham hasn't prove his worth, then I'm with Howie.

Overall, I'm more than satisfied with the first two rounds. I guess we need a cornerback next.
Dr. Claw
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 28 2012, 05:21 AM) *
Must resist temptation ;) Good calls though.

At this stage I'm happy with three of the four picks, but don't like Foles. We could have had Boykin for the slot and returns rather than a mid-round QB. Given the projected strength of the 2013 QB class, we'd have been better to take a late round pick or UDFA this year, then looked at QB in the first two rounds next year.

Our super-genius head coach has struck again. Remember how much use we got from Kolb when we took a QB a couple of years too early?


Agreed 100%. A QB in the third round this year was essentially a wasted pick, since they'll probably be picking one again next season. The defensive picks were pretty much all un-Andy and more along the lines of what the Eagles actually need to make their defensive system work. Would have rather had a WR in the third round, if they had to go offense.
D Rock
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 28 2012, 10:21 AM) *
Remember how much use we got from Kolb when we took a QB a couple of years too early?

Yeah, I do. We got a first round corne and a 2nd round pick.
D Rock
QUOTE (_KAMELOT_ @ Apr 28 2012, 02:05 PM) *
I liked Cox and Foles weeks before the draft, I 'm so happy we got them. I liked Zach Brown more than Kendricks, though. As for Curry, he was the best available and since Graham hasn't prove his worth, then I'm with Howie.

Overall, I'm more than satisfied with the first two rounds. I guess we need a cornerback next.

Why the luv for Zach brown? Everything I read sez he's softer than warm butter. W don't need another lb that's allergic to contact.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 28 2012, 09:45 AM) *
Why the luv for Zach brown? Everything I read sez he's softer than warm butter. W don't need another lb that's allergic to contact.


Fact
_KAMELOT_
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 28 2012, 04:45 PM) *
Why the luv for Zach brown? Everything I read sez he's softer than warm butter. W don't need another lb that's allergic to contact.


With that d-line and Ryans, I wouldn't mind a LB in there that is mostly a cover guy that a tackling machine. Brown had 108 tackles in 2011 - he might be soft, but he's not that soft.

Just my two cents.
Eyrie
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 28 2012, 03:43 PM) *
Yeah, I do. We got a first round corne and a 2nd round pick.

So Foles was worth taking because we can trade him for a third and a player down the line? And that is better value than a TE, slot CB, returner, back up RB, big WR, S or OL?

We'll have to add this to the long list of things we've disagreed on lately sad.gif
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 28 2012, 10:53 AM) *
So Foles was worth taking because we can trade him for a third and a player down the line? And that is better value than a TE, slot CB, returner, back up RB, big WR, S or OL?

We'll have to add this to the long list of things we've disagreed on lately sad.gif


Or he could turn into the QB of the future.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (_KAMELOT_ @ Apr 28 2012, 11:13 AM) *
With that d-line and Ryans, I wouldn't mind a LB in there that is mostly a cover guy that a tackling machine. Brown had 108 tackles in 2011 - he might be soft, but he's not that soft.

Just my two cents.


explain how Zack brown is a better cover LB than Kendricks? kendricks is jsut as fast if not faster, just as quick and hits as well.......and he played in a conference that loves to throw......he is the real deal, just short but that is not as bad as folks think when you have close to a 40" vertical.....
SLOiggles
Correct me if im wrong, but wasnt Kirk Cousins still available when we took Foles? I feel hes the better pro potential quarterback
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (SLOiggles @ Apr 28 2012, 12:11 PM) *
Correct me if im wrong, but wasnt Kirk Cousins still available when we took Foles? I feel hes the better pro potential quarterback


He was. IMO Cousins is Kafka is Kolb is Andy Hall.
I like the fact that we drafted a guy that has all the physical skills and the upside to excel with proper coaching. Cousins is far more limited physically.
Jerome Brown Experience
QUOTE (Dr. Claw @ Apr 28 2012, 09:15 AM) *
Agreed 100%. A QB in the third round this year was essentially a wasted pick, since they'll probably be picking one again next season. The defensive picks were pretty much all un-Andy and more along the lines of what the Eagles actually need to make their defensive system work. Would have rather had a WR in the third round, if they had to go offense.


I don't agree with this. Andy loves the lines so we started on the line. We could have traded up even more and grabbed Kuechly, Claiborne or Blackmon.....that would have all been very un-Andy. All of the reports are saying that Andy is being a louder voice in the organization on this draft as his take is "If you are going to threaten to fire me then give me more say on who comes in the door." I am sure that some of this stems from the Jason Pierre-Paul shitacle.

On the QB front, while the numbers are admittedly probably not all that big they should be able to save money by cutting one of their backup QBs (probably Edwards) and slot in Foles. We have some big signings we need to think of this season so even $500k is important. Plus, if there is one position where I am willing to give Andy some slack it would be QB. LB? WR? DE? Not so much. But he is a pretty good judge of QB horse flesh. I am fine with the 3rd rounder on Foles, a run on QBs

Jerome Brown Experience
QUOTE (SLOiggles @ Apr 28 2012, 01:11 PM) *
Correct me if im wrong, but wasnt Kirk Cousins still available when we took Foles? I feel hes the better pro potential quarterback



You may be right but I think the concerns are that while Cousins is more "pro ready" he basically is at 98% of his upside, whereas Foles has a cannon and played with a shitty receiving corps (and sub-par coaches as well to be honest). Watch Cousins' Gruden QB camp video...he literally struggles to throw a good NFL short fade into the end zone - and with somewhat limited arm strength that should be a throw he can land on a dime each and every time. Listen, that is only one small example and I certainly saw plenty of games where he played good football, but I think people got a bit more excited about him than he might merit (although starting at a major program for 3 years is a good predictor of NFL success).

I am most worried about how much I like this draft. I hated the Sheppard/Brown draft. I hated the Westbrook pick. I loved the Bunkley/Justice draft......so I may be real bad at this. Please take that into consideration.

D Rock
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 28 2012, 04:53 PM) *
So Foles was worth taking because we can trade him for a third and a player down the line? And that is better value than a TE, slot CB, returner, back up RB, big WR, S or OL?

We'll have to add this to the long list of things we've disagreed on lately sad.gif

Tiger Please...

Don't put words in my mouth. I said "I dunno nuthing bout the AZ QB" and that's all I've said re: the guy.

You asked what the Kolb pick got us. I merely answered.

You can keep your "list." If for no other reason to deliniate exactly how and where you've been wrong.

ETA: And for the record . . . we got our "slot CB, returner" with the next pick. Some folks would shit on a gold brick if it were given to them saying "You didn't give it to me the right way."
HOUSEoPAIN
I think it's been a very good draft so far.

-Cox, Kendrick, and Curry are excellent picks.

-Foles? Ok I bitched and moaned about Andy's inevitable wasted QB pick already.....weeks ago, before it happened. We KNEW he was going to do it, I was ecstatic that he waited until our 4th pick instead of drafting one in the first round for christ's sakes. Oh well, let's move on.

-Boykin should end up being good, and working with DRC and Aso can't hurt.

-Kelly has the size to replace Peters, not sure about the talent. Not a bad position to draft though.

So far I'm happy. Let's see what we end up getting for Samuel and Mays tongue.gif



Matty™
Been a pretty good draft, love Cox and Kendricks picks.... bit 'meh' about Foles didn't really need to waste the third rounder on him...

Boykin is a great pick and with Curry we got a player who has a lot of heart and bleeds green, nothing better than a player invigorated by playing for their childhood team
Flying Dutchman
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 28 2012, 10:43 AM) *
Yeah, I do. We got a first round corne and a 2nd round pick.


Actually they say we traded Kolb for Rodgers-Cromartie, Curry and Boykin. That's one of the best trades I have ever seen the Eagles make.
koolaidluke
QUOTE (Zero @ Apr 28 2012, 05:36 AM) *
After reading up on Cox, Kendricks and Curry, I'm pretty optimistic that the defense is going to show some real improvement this year.


Why would you expect any of them to contribute this year?

Okay, Cox might give us something coming off the bench but that's about it.


Our D finished really strong last year. If we can pick up where we left off we should be fine, if not, however, we could be in trouble.

Also I think people are underestimating how much losing Samuel hurts our pass coverage.


If Kolb can stay healthy, he will be a good QB. But even if he can't, at least he isn't a total fraud, unlike someone I know.
Flying Dutchman
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 28 2012, 11:53 AM) *
So Foles was worth taking because we can trade him for a third and a player down the line? And that is better value than a TE, slot CB, returner, back up RB, big WR, S or OL?

We'll have to add this to the long list of things we've disagreed on lately sad.gif

C'mon, O skirted furriner! They got a then 26 yr old, sub 4.4 all-pro CB, a consensus 1st rd pick for DE and a great young slot CB and return man all for Kolb. That's 4 for 1!!!!!! Andy makes and sells QBs like they were ginzo knives or at least, turns them into 2nd rd picks LOL. Shoot, if Maclin doesn't drop that ball with the worst reception of his career, people would be up in arms for Kafka to be the starter after the comeback he led. This kid Foles is the biggest QB I have ever seen in Philly. He has Gabriels size at 6'5" and at 245 is as big as McNabb at his heaviest but in much better shape. He played last year for an absolutely lousy team with its new coach, new system and an OL full of freshmen who couldn't block a drunken Scotchman or woman! He'll either pan out, which is numerically unlikely for any non high 1st rd QB pick or Andy will sell him off for some Fool's Gold.
Eyrie
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 28 2012, 08:11 PM) *
ETA: And for the record . . . we got our "slot CB, returner" with the next pick. Some folks would shit on a gold brick if it were given to them saying "You didn't give it to me the right way."

I'm pleased to get Boykin in the fourth (which was after my post), but what about the other holes we could have filled with that third?


QUOTE (Flying Dutchman @ Apr 29 2012, 08:51 AM) *
C'mon, O skirted furriner! They got a then 26 yr old, sub 4.4 all-pro CB, a consensus 1st rd pick for DE and a great young slot CB and return man all for Kolb. That's 4 for 1!!!!!! Andy makes and sells QBs like they were ginzo knives or at least, turns them into 2nd rd picks LOL. Shoot, if Maclin doesn't drop that ball with the worst reception of his career, people would be up in arms for Kafka to be the starter after the come back he led. This kid Foles is the biggest QB I have ever seen in Philly. He has Gabriels size at 6'5" and at 245 is as big as McNabb at his heaviest but in much better shape. He played last year for an absolutely lousy team with its new coach, new system and an OL full of freshmen who couldn't block a drunken Scotchman or woman! He'll either pan out, which is numerically likely for any non high 1st rd QB pick or Andy will sell him off for some Fool's Gold.

Quit sticking up for DRock - he's enough of an handful on his own!

Teams are getting wise to Reid's QBs now. Feeley, McNabb and Kolb have all struggled once they left here and I'd rather trade the #3 for a #2 next year than take a player who won't contribute for a couple of years and has no guarantee of being a good starter after that.

Besides, every time I hear "third round QB with promise" I get flashbacks to Hoying against the Bengals.
Zero
QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Apr 29 2012, 02:46 AM) *
Why would you expect any of them to contribute this year?

Okay, Cox might give us something coming off the bench but that's about it.


Our D finished really strong last year. If we can pick up where we left off we should be fine, if not, however, we could be in trouble.

Also I think people are underestimating how much losing Samuel hurts our pass coverage.


If Kolb can stay healthy, he will be a good QB. But even if he can't, at least he isn't a total fraud, unlike someone I know.

Cox and Curry will jump right into Wash's rotation and unless every analysis I've read is wrong Kendricks will be the second best LB the Eagles have, even as a rookie. And, from much of what I've been reading the D finished strong in part because Samuel wasn't on the field to do what he wanted instead of what everyone else was doing.
Flying Dutchman
I like the idea of when our D goes to the 4-2-5 we have plenty of fresh horses for the front 4. Ryans and Kendrick at LB can both cover but still bring it if there is a running play, and then add in a slot corner like Boykins who isn't going to get lost like Hanson often did last year. This could be a really fun D.
D Rock
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 29 2012, 10:24 AM) *
I'm pleased to get Boykin in the fourth (which was after my post), but what about the other holes we could have filled with that third?

Like what? Safety was reportedly a weak class outside of Barron and the kid from Notre Dame. You'd rather they reach on another swing-and-a-miss safety?
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 29 2012, 11:16 AM) *
Like what? Safety was reportedly a weak class outside of Barron and the kid from Notre Dame. You'd rather they reach on another swing-and-a-miss safety?


well said
Eyrie
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 28 2012, 04:53 PM) *
So Foles was worth taking because we can trade him for a third and a player down the line? And that is better value than a TE, slot CB, returner, back up RB, big WR, S or OL?


QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 29 2012, 04:16 PM) *
Like what? Safety was reportedly a weak class outside of Barron and the kid from Notre Dame. You'd rather they reach on another swing-and-a-miss safety?

I'd rather we brought in a veteran S since we have plenty youth at that position, but I'd settle for a rookie.

Now, about the other positions I listed which could have been addressed with our third round pick .....
_KAMELOT_
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 28 2012, 07:02 PM) *
explain how Zack brown is a better cover LB than Kendricks? kendricks is jsut as fast if not faster, just as quick and hits as well.......and he played in a conference that loves to throw......he is the real deal, just short but that is not as bad as folks think when you have close to a 40" vertical.....


Kendricks is a bit faster and more athletic than Brown. Still, he is 5'11" (Brown is 6'1") and his arms are 2 inches smaller than Brown's. Plus, Kendricks is already jacked, he can't add anymore muscle or he'll look like a meatball. Brown can add at least 5-6 pounds more and his frame is more suitable to play coverage.

I can't see how Kendricks will be a problem for a 6'4" tight-end. He might make it in 2-3 occasions, but he won't be able to pull that 40" every time.
Flying Dutchman
QUOTE (_KAMELOT_ @ Apr 30 2012, 03:31 AM) *
Kendricks is a bit faster and more athletic than Brown. Still, he is 5'11" (Brown is 6'1") and his arms are 2 inches smaller than Brown's. Plus, Kendricks is already jacked, he can't add anymore muscle or he'll look like a meatball. Brown can add at least 5-6 pounds more and his frame is more suitable to play coverage.

I can't see how Kendricks will be a problem for a 6'4" tight-end. He might make it in 2-3 occasions, but he won't be able to pull that 40" every time.


Brown can add weight like you say, what he can't add is heart. He plays matador defense and avoids tackles every bit as much as Samuels did. Kendricks hits like a truck and wraps up. Brown is invisible.
Jerome Brown Experience
QUOTE (_KAMELOT_ @ Apr 30 2012, 03:31 AM) *
Kendricks is a bit faster and more athletic than Brown. Still, he is 5'11" (Brown is 6'1") and his arms are 2 inches smaller than Brown's. Plus, Kendricks is already jacked, he can't add anymore muscle or he'll look like a meatball. Brown can add at least 5-6 pounds more and his frame is more suitable to play coverage.

I can't see how Kendricks will be a problem for a 6'4" tight-end. He might make it in 2-3 occasions, but he won't be able to pull that 40" every time.


I would think that the model would be against a Gronkowski-esque receiver:

- Jam him at the line with Kendricks' upper body strength
- Let the pass rush create the play break up

You can always think of ways that a 6'4" TE can beat you, but with Cox, Patterson, Babin, Curry and Cole I am starting to think that this Eagles' defense will not allow plays to develop at all, and that needs to be factored into any naysaying.
Flying Dutchman
QUOTE (Jerome Brown Experience @ Apr 30 2012, 11:44 AM) *
I would think that the model would be against a Gronkowski-esque receiver:

- Jam him at the line with Kendricks' upper body strength
- Let the pass rush create the play break up

You can always think of ways that a 6'4" TE can beat you, but with Cox, Patterson, Babin, Curry and Cole I am starting to think that this Eagles' defense will not allow plays to develop at all, and that needs to be factored into any naysaying.

You also have to factor in that the Eagles did very well against the big TEs they faced last year. When they really needed to, they just swung Aso over. No reason not to expect more of that this year as well.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 29 2012, 05:49 PM) *
I'd rather we brought in a veteran S since we have plenty youth at that position, but I'd settle for a rookie.

Now, about the other positions I listed which could have been addressed with our third round pick .....


If they had picked Boykins in the 3rd and Foles in the 4th, I feel as though you would have zero to nitpick over.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (_KAMELOT_ @ Apr 30 2012, 03:31 AM) *
Kendricks is a bit faster and more athletic than Brown. Still, he is 5'11" (Brown is 6'1") and his arms are 2 inches smaller than Brown's. Plus, Kendricks is already jacked, he can't add anymore muscle or he'll look like a meatball. Brown can add at least 5-6 pounds more and his frame is more suitable to play coverage.

I can't see how Kendricks will be a problem for a 6'4" tight-end. He might make it in 2-3 occasions, but he won't be able to pull that 40" every time.


wow....2"? Kendricks makes up for that with his jumping ability.....also, Kendricks plays that fast at his current weight but you have no idea if Brown will do the same....there is nothing, absolutely nothing that indicates Brown was, is or will be better in coverage for the simple reason that he wasn't isn't and won't be......Kendricks is just a solid stud LB who was better in college and projects as a better pro. He has the key ingredient for it that Brown doesn't.....he isn't a Pussy....
Eyrie
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 30 2012, 05:16 PM) *
If they had picked Boykins in the 3rd and Foles in the 4th, I feel as though you would have zero to nitpick over.

I enjoy my nitpicking biggrin.gif

You're right that I'd have been happy with Boykin in the third, but that we got in him the fourth highlights how much better we could have done better with that third (including trading it for a second next year).

As regards QB, even a fourth would have been too early. A fifth or sixth fair enough, but I'd rather we'd waited and got a good one early in next year's draft.

Now that we have Foles, I'm hoping that I'm wrong and the rest of you are right that he will be a good starter for us in 2-3 years.
D Rock
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 29 2012, 11:49 PM) *
I'd rather we brought in a veteran S since we have plenty youth at that position, but I'd settle for a rookie.

And how would that draft pick have helped in that regard?
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 30 2012, 12:22 PM) *
As regards QB, even a fourth would have been too early. A fifth or sixth fair enough, but I'd rather we'd waited and got a good one early in next year's draft.

Rest assured, if Andy had an opportunity to draft a good one early next year, he'll take it.
Phits
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 30 2012, 06:57 PM) *
Rest assured, if Andy had an opportunity to draft a good one early next year, he'll take it.

Even if it's a not so great QB. Might even trade down to a division rival and secure the pick.
biggrin.gif
Flying Dutchman
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Apr 29 2012, 06:49 PM) *
I'd rather we brought in a veteran S since we have plenty youth at that position, but I'd settle for a rookie.


You should watch the battle between Colt Anderson, if he is recovered enough to play by camp, and the kid from the 'cuse, Phillip Thomas the safety who led the Orange in tackles and Ints last year. He messed up his '40 time trial but trust me the kid can really run. He actually was a 800 meter runner for the US Junior World's.

OT: I am reading a history of the Celts "Who Were the Celts" and just came across the story about the Irish (Ierne) Celtic tribe the "Scotti" who settled the N of Albion. Fascinating stories about 6'5" celtic warriors when they occupied Italy and fearsome female warrior queens like Cartimandua and Boudicca. What a picture of early language and civilization's development. I had to laugh when I read that the Celts used to punish their warriors if they got fat! Makes one think there must still be some tall, skinny Scotts (who still wear skirts) and Irish LOL!
Eyrie
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 30 2012, 10:31 PM) *
And how would that draft pick have helped in that regard?

Like I said, I'd have preferred a veteran but there is a vacancy for a fourth safety which a rookie could have addressed. And that third could alternatively been used at one of the other positions I've listed.

QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Apr 30 2012, 11:57 PM) *
Rest assured, if Andy had an opportunity to draft a good one early next year, he'll take it.

Don't go giving him ideas! ohmy.gif Actually, that would make the Foles selection even more ridiculous.

QUOTE (Flying Dutchman @ May 1 2012, 11:28 AM) *
You should watch the battle between Colt Anderson, if he is recovered enough to play by camp, and the kid from the 'cuse, Phillip Thomas the safety who led the Orange in tackles and Ints last year. He messed up his '40 time trial but trust me the kid can really run. He actually was a 800 meter runner for the US Junior World's.

I like Anderson and think he'll make the team for STs, but he's done little as a S in the NFL. Leaving aside your known Orange bias, Thomas sounds intriguing. I won't jinx him by making him my favoured long shot though!

QUOTE (Flying Dutchman @ May 1 2012, 11:28 AM) *
OT: I am reading a history of the Celts "Who Were the Celts" and just came across the story about the Irish (Ierne) Celtic tribe the "Scotti" who settled the N of Albion. Fascinating stories about 6'5" celtic warriors when they occupied Italy and fearsome female warrior queens like Cartimandua and Boudicca. What a picture of early language and civilization's development. I had to laugh when I read that the Celts used to punish their warriors if they got fat! Makes one think there must still be some tall, skinny Scotts (who still wear skirts) and Irish LOL!

Hmmm, I'm tall (not 6'5" though), very skinny (remember Pinkston?) and have often been accused on here of wearing skirts biggrin.gif
Zero
Eyrie = tent pole. biggrin.gif
Eyrie
QUOTE (Zero @ May 2 2012, 12:26 AM) *
Eyrie = tent pole. biggrin.gif

Part of Wingheads lore biggrin.gif
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