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nephillymike
Asante Samuel, the CB who was ranked the 54th best player in NFL Network's 2011 poll of his peers (2012 comes out this weekend) has warranted a draft pick in a trade with Atlanta.

What round? 6th round!

Giving the late pick at least two years to mature, here are our 6th round picks from 2005 - 2009:

2005 Calvin Armstrong
2006 Lujuan Ramsey
2007 Rashad Barksdale
2008 Andy Studebaker, Joe Mays, Mike Gibson
2009 Brandon Gibson.

Heads have to roll for this one. We traded the 54th best player for one of these stiffs straight up. Sure we save some cash, but do we eat the cap space anyway?

Whatever. When you're talkign 6th rounders, you needed to go and trade for a player in position of need straight up. That is totally unacceptable. If this is the best they could do, we need to find more talented pro personnel people.
mcnabbulous
7th rounder
HobbEs
Yeah, we basically gave him away (to a conference rival). Hopefully it's addition by subtraction.
GQSmooth
Why doesn't Howie ever get the blame at Novacare, deal was on the table for two draft picks last year, why didn't it get done? Why couldn't we get something besides the 7th round pick?
TGryn
They take a 2 million "dead money" hit for trading him, so the savings against the cap is $8.5 million. They also were on the hook for $11.4 million in salary in 2013, but that's gone now also. Which is a big thing: this is from "iggles nut" over at the KFFL boards that makes the case:
QUOTE
Currently the Eagles have $127M committed to only 36 players for 2013. Even if you cut Asante that puts it at $115.5M for 35 players. A lot of the prime players for the Eagles have their cap numbers increase significantly next season. Now some of those guys could end up being cut. I haven't looked closely at what wold be the cap ramifications of releasing individual players. In general though, one can see why opening up breathing room is necessary.

And that's before trying to resign DRC and Shady.

We've actually done extremely well with our recent 7th rounders - Coleman, Cheney, Fokou, and Dunlap were all 7th round picks who've started games.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 25 2012, 11:32 PM) *
Asante Samuel, the CB who was ranked the 54th best player in NFL Network's 2011 poll of his peers (2012 comes out this weekend) has warranted a draft pick in a trade with Atlanta.



Please. Didn't you hear he's a free-lancing FRAUD?

Yes, whoever signed off on this trade should be working in the mail room.
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 25 2012, 10:32 PM) *
Asante Samuel, the CB who was ranked the 54th best player in NFL Network's 2011 poll of his peers (2012 comes out this weekend) has warranted a draft pick in a trade with Atlanta.


have you watched the top 100 shows? your comment appears to assume that the top 100 is based on the previous season....its not. if you listen to the commentary, watch the video clips and look at the stats they mention its clear that the rankings are based on the player's career to that point....not just the previous season

ed reed was #5 but missed 6 or 7 games that year.

Wes Welker and Marques Colston are in the 50s and Devin friggin hester is #32 which screams that the list is more about career than a given year's stats

that said, asante had a good career which looks good on 'top 100' list but has nothing to do with how much of a liability he is on your defense now

the only reason he was here last year is because the FO thought like you do that he is awesome so worth a middle pick. he wasnt worth it last year and they wound up keeping him a year too long. now that they have learned their lesson and dealt him for the box of xmas lights he was worth there is still a contingent of fans who wanted to hold out for the 2nd/3rd rounder.....AGAIN??

LOL
nephillymike
OK so we save 8.5 mill this year and 11 mill next year. Great.

Now you mean to tell me that there were no interested parties who would not have parted with a starter at a position of need or at worst, a significant backup at a position of need?

They didn't do their homework. An all-pro for a 7th rounder. If nothing else, their mistake in the timing of doing it by letting him depreciate in value in one year should bring wrath.

We were 8-8. We need more talent and a 7th rounder doesn't bring it.

It's like these guys never were rookie personnel people. Inecxcusable!
make_it_rain
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 26 2012, 10:42 AM) *
OK so we save 8.5 mill this year and 11 mill next year. Great.

Now you mean to tell me that there were no interested parties who would not have parted with a starter at a position of need or at worst, a significant backup at a position of need?


Basically, yes. I mean, hey, I agree we got taken to the cleaners on this trade, but as been pointed out its more about clearing cap space and it seems that there just wasnt enough teams interested in giving up a 4th rounder or so AND paying Asante something even close to what he was scheduled to make. The Falcons knew it was a buyers market for Samuel, and capitalized accordingly.

So yeah, we should have gotten more, but honestly, fuck Asante. I still have visions of him getting torched by Earl Bennett in the Bears game last season.

Earl Bennett. Let that sink in for a second. Unless they're pulling down 10+ INTs a season, a CB simply can't be that great if they make Earl Bennet look like a stud
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (make_it_rain @ Apr 26 2012, 11:03 AM) *
I still have visions of him getting torched by Earl Bennett in the Bears game last season.


Oh c'mon. Most here agree Samuel doesn't fit in as well in the Wide 9 as DRC. Also most here agree the Falcons smelled blood, that we were desperate to clear cap space prior to the draft. Great.

But this is just ridiculous. He's still an All-Pro, and may very well have 3-4 great years left in him. You're talking about one play to justify the crappy job our FO just did? Where did all this irrational hate for Samuel come from, it's getting to #5 KAL levels. Does Nick Collins suck? Earl Bennett also made him look like a jerkoff on a touchdown pass, worse than he made Samuel look - and that was in the NFC Champ game. Also, we know now that Bennett was a 'bounty' target designated by Gregg Williams. I'm not here trying to prop up Bennett, but actual NFL personnel seem to actually value him much more than bipolar Eagles fans do.
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 26 2012, 10:34 AM) *
He's still an All-Pro


how so?
BirdsWinBaby
now see that? see what you did? you made me go and quote marcus hayes...i ****** hate marcus hayes!!

ax2grind.com

"For each of his 23 interceptions as an Eagle, Samuel missed five tackles. For every pick he turned into six, he gave up 10 touchdowns. Asante Samuel was a fraud, wrapped in a mirage, inside an illusion.

He had the hands of a receiver and the tackling skills of a quarterback....Sorry, quarterbacks.

Samuel has made a career out of anticipation. Not winning battles for balls; not covering tightly and physically, risking a dislocated finger or a sprained knee.

He is the master of the deflected interception; the king of right place, right time. He jumps routes like a kid jumps rope."



its not just one play or even one season....its how he always played and when it gets you tons of pick6s its worth it...its not anymore. to anybody
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ Apr 26 2012, 12:21 PM) *
now see that? see what you did? you made me go and quote marcus hayes...i ****** hate marcus hayes!!


I second that. The fact that you need to quote Marcus Hayes is proof that your argument is fraudulent. Marcus Hayes, a less-compensated and less-famous version of Michael Wilbon.

After reading that article I have come to the conclusion that either Samuel banged Hayes's wife at some point, banged his daughter at some point, banged his wife and daughter at the same time at one point, and possibly got caught pissing in his coffee at some point. I don't recall the courageous Marcus Hayes, anyone else in Philly, or for that matter anyone HERE saying anything like that before Samuel was gone. That was a childish rant, nothing more. So apparently, if he ends up with 60-70 picks and a HOF entry it's completely a result of pure luck from a fraud? Only a complete moron could truly believe that.
BirdsWinBaby
LOL..yea he definitely went way over the line making his point. its why i dont like him...doesnt mean his point is wrong

and people on THIS board have been saying that asante was a liability for a while now. the FO didnt get one CB and say 'we good'...they got 2 CBs and 1) tried to trade asante last year and 2) nobody would give anything close to the value you believe he is worth

now either the entire league is wrong (not just our FO) or asante is right and he is still worth a 3rd rounder and 10mill a year
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ Apr 26 2012, 01:22 PM) *
now either the entire league is wrong (not just our FO) or asante is right and he is still worth a 3rd rounder and 10mill a year


Again, for the sole purpose of saving money to re-sign Shady, I have no problem with that. And when they got DRC AND Aso, I'm sure we knew Assante was going to go after 2011. But the Falcons are a legit Super Bowl contender, and they picked him up for next to nothing and just improved their defense. I could see if the Browns jumped on him, but the Falcons obviously think they can make a better SB run with him, and they definitely got the better of the deal. That's all I'm saying.
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 26 2012, 12:35 PM) *
I could see if the Browns jumped on him, but the Falcons obviously think they can make a better SB run with him, and they definitely got the better of the deal. That's all I'm saying.


yea i noticed that hayes mentioned in his rant that with a headhunter already playing for them (robinson) the falcs really dont need asante to stick his face into a guy's chest
D Rock
Assante is as far away from All Pro as "HouseOfPain" is from intelligent.

You people are trippin.

It has always been (and will always be) difficult to trade a player that the entire league knows wont survive final cuts. His cap number and rapidly diminishing on field returns led to this.

Howie's gaffe was painting himself into this corner by not getting a deal done last year. As for this year . . . we had zero leverage.
Birdman420
I'm 100% in total agreement with HOP on this one. You guys seem like you have no opinion until the FO ships the guy out of town then the rants start about how he wasent that good anyway. Ok say what you want to make yourself feel better but I'm counting on Samuel to burn the fuck out of us when we play the Falcons.

We got peanuts for a good/great player bottom line. There is nobody in the 6th-7th round that can even carry the the stools Samuel shat out this morning.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 26 2012, 02:42 PM) *
Assante is as far away from All Pro as "HouseOfPain" is from intelligent.


Anyone who calls a CB well on his way to a HOF career who has just been picked up by Super Bowl contenders to start a 'fraud' has no business analyzing the intelligence of Forrest Gump, much less myself. Aren't you the guy who said McNabb was never a top-30 QB after '04? Go lie down. You represent the small portion of bipolar Eagles fans who jump on whatever bandwagon is popular at the moment. I'd be interested to hear your complaints about Samuel prior to last year, feel free to post them for me.

HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Birdman420 @ Apr 26 2012, 02:43 PM) *
You guys seem like you have no opinion until the FO ships the guy out of town then the rants start about how he wasent that good anyway


Yup. Pretty much says it all.
nephillymike
BTW, before I opine further, I'm not a big Samuel fan. Pussy DB's are not my thing. However, he was (and is in the right system) a legit PB CB.

For us to only get a 7th rounder for him is an inexcusable pro personnel move.
Your job is to maximize the value of your assets to your team, whether thru their performance or their trade value in order to give the team the best chance at success. To use a Reidism, "They've got to put us in a better position to succeed".

As far as Marcus goes, that was the most biased pieces I've heard since Eskin used to get permission from the Eagles to rip players that were out of favor. I wonder if Samuel called Marcus a bad politcially incorrect sexual preference word? Again, i don't like Samuel but Hayes went way over the line and it isn't like he voices for the front office the way Eskin and Sheridan used to do.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 26 2012, 04:06 PM) *
BTW, before I opine further, I'm not a big Samuel fan. Pussy DB's are not my thing. However, he was (and is in the right system) a legit PB CB.

For us to only get a 7th rounder for him is an inexcusable pro personnel move.


Thank you. Once again, that's all I've been saying. Cut cap space to sign Shady? Fine, we have DRC and Aso. Samuel for a 7th rounder? Bite me that's ridiculous wacko.gif
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 26 2012, 10:42 AM) *
OK so we save 8.5 mill this year and 11 mill next year. Great.

Now you mean to tell me that there were no interested parties who would not have parted with a starter at a position of need or at worst, a significant backup at a position of need?

They didn't do their homework. An all-pro for a 7th rounder. If nothing else, their mistake in the timing of doing it by letting him depreciate in value in one year should bring wrath.

We were 8-8. We need more talent and a 7th rounder doesn't bring it.

It's like these guys never were rookie personnel people. Inecxcusable!


Have you been drinking?

This is the NFL and with his salary there was no one dumb enough to pony up anything good for a once great CB with a bloated contract. He is no longer the playmaker he was and now is more of a average CB with some ball skills. He is not getting any younger and had missed games the last 2 seasons. The goal was to lose the salary, mission accomplished.

And of all the FOs, you think they didn't do their homework? These guys live to trade, they certainly didn't take the first offer......I am more amazed that you, one of the few voices of reason here, actually think p;ayers of Assante's ilk(declining skill set, expanding contract) would garner anything of value.

Your better than that......lol
D Rock
Yup
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 26 2012, 08:26 PM) *
Have you been drinking?

This is the NFL and with his salary there was no one dumb enough to pony up anything good for a once great CB with a bloated contract. He is no longer the playmaker he was and now is more of a average CB with some ball skills. He is not getting any younger and had missed games the last 2 seasons. The goal was to lose the salary, mission accomplished.

And of all the FOs, you think they didn't do their homework? These guys live to trade, they certainly didn't take the first offer......I am more amazed that you, one of the few voices of reason here, actually think p;ayers of Assante's ilk(declining skill set, expanding contract) would garner anything of value.

Your better than that......lol


What's up stranger? How's it going?

Well, to add more fuel to the fire, it was mentioned in the Daily News recently that last year, the Eagles had an offer for two second day draft picks,which would mean at the least they had an offer for two third rounders as the second and third rounders are second day picks. (Third day picks are 4th-7th) So they didn't take two third rounders last year but got stuck with taking a 7th this year? Given that he got paid handsomely in 2011, the salary that the team who was interested last year would have had to absorb was more than the salary that the Falcons picked up given that they would have had to pay Samuel for last year also. Your loyalty to the front office is admirable, but your fighting a losing battle on this one. They blew it big time. Like I said, I'm not a big fan of his, but still.

Just make sure the kerosene is fresh and the torches are dry for the march on Nova Care that you still owe me!!
mcnabbulous
My only issue with trade is that I think it should have been a conditional pick next year, which would have been reasonable for both teams. If Asante plays well, give us a 4.

If the Falcons weren't open to it, fuck it and cut him. Let them battle it out with other interested teams than give us absolutely nothing.
TGryn
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 26 2012, 01:06 PM) *
As far as Marcus goes, that was the most biased pieces I've heard since Eskin used to get permission from the Eagles to rip players that were out of favor. I wonder if Samuel called Marcus a bad politcially incorrect sexual preference word? Again, i don't like Samuel but Hayes went way over the line and it isn't like he voices for the front office the way Eskin and Sheridan used to do.

I think Samuel must has snubbed MH at some point, and Hayes strikes me as the type to hold grudges years down the line. He's normally fairly over-the-top in his writing - the DN version of Missanelli - but I had to think either this was personal/payback for Hayes as Samuel was hitting the exit, or the whole piece was meant as a joke.

I'm just going by his writing and when I've seen him on DN Live, but Hayes doesn't strike as a particularly nice guy, and that side comes out from time to time.
TGryn
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 27 2012, 02:07 PM) *
Well, to add more fuel to the fire, it was mentioned in the Daily News recently that last year, the Eagles had an offer for two second day draft picks,which would mean at the least they had an offer for two third rounders as the second and third rounders are second day picks. (Third day picks are 4th-7th) So they didn't take two third rounders last year but got stuck with taking a 7th this year? Given that he got paid handsomely in 2011, the salary that the team who was interested last year would have had to absorb was more than the salary that the Falcons picked up given that they would have had to pay Samuel for last year also. Your loyalty to the front office is admirable, but your fighting a losing battle on this one. They blew it big time. Like I said, I'm not a big fan of his, but still.

That rumor also went on to state that the deal broke down for "reasons other than compensation." My guess is that the condition that tripped up the thing was that Asante would have to agree to restructure his contract, and he refused, not wanting to go to Detroit/Denver/wherever. I don't know that, but it fits, and there wouldn't have been much the team could do about that. It also explains Samuel's comments about feeling disrespected: if it got to the point where they asked his agent whether Asante would be willing to restructure, he wouldn't just have suspected or heard the Eagles were trying to move him, he've known it beyond a doubt.
_KAMELOT_
I wanted Samuel to be traded, but honestly, the Eagles should re-stracture his contract instead of giving him away for a 7th...that's stupid.
nephillymike
QUOTE (TGryn @ Apr 27 2012, 06:24 PM) *
That rumor also went on to state that the deal broke down for "reasons other than compensation." My guess is that the condition that tripped up the thing was that Asante would have to agree to restructure his contract, and he refused, not wanting to go to Detroit/Denver/wherever. I don't know that, but it fits, and there wouldn't have been much the team could do about that. It also explains Samuel's comments about feeling disrespected: if it got to the point where they asked his agent whether Asante would be willing to restructure, he wouldn't just have suspected or heard the Eagles were trying to move him, he've known it beyond a doubt.


Hey TG, we could always lighten a team's financial load by going into NBA mode where we take away some of their slary problems for giving them ours. Detroit must have had some overpaid guy in a backup role on their roster that was making a decent amount (maybe 2 Mill or so) that we could take off their hands to make it work. They needed to be creative. a 7th rounder for Samuel a year later? That goes under creative ways to get personnel people fired.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 27 2012, 05:07 PM) *
What's up stranger? How's it going?

Well, to add more fuel to the fire, it was mentioned in the Daily News recently that last year, the Eagles had an offer for two second day draft picks,which would mean at the least they had an offer for two third rounders as the second and third rounders are second day picks. (Third day picks are 4th-7th) So they didn't take two third rounders last year but got stuck with taking a 7th this year? Given that he got paid handsomely in 2011, the salary that the team who was interested last year would have had to absorb was more than the salary that the Falcons picked up given that they would have had to pay Samuel for last year also. Your loyalty to the front office is admirable, but your fighting a losing battle on this one. They blew it big time. Like I said, I'm not a big fan of his, but still.

Just make sure the kerosene is fresh and the torches are dry for the march on Nova Care that you still owe me!!


I just want to make sure I have this right.....your defense of your stance is based on rumor? Further more.....it can be said that Assante had more value to the Eagles last year due to the shortened offseason due to the strike. DRC was coming in with questions after a down year so Assante as insurance increased his value to the Eagles.

Your view of my loyalty tot he front office is akin to liberal's view of Fox news, they are so far left that any common sense used to counter their positions is viewed as far right.(ok....I will get off the politics.....lolol)

I think if they really had a chance to pull the trigger for a 2nd and a 3rd and the choice was theirs they would have jumped on it and I think you know that too. It would be nice to now the truth but the writers on the Paper's staff in this town are not known for their impartiality covering a coach who they feel disrespects them.(forget the fact that they have been less than respectful covering him)

ok, that should be enough to piss some folks off.....hahahaha

and thank you, been busy....don't get here as often
nephillymike
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Apr 28 2012, 10:32 AM) *
I just want to make sure I have this right.....your defense of your stance is based on rumor? Further more.....it can be said that Assante had more value to the Eagles last year due to the shortened offseason due to the strike. DRC was coming in with questions after a down year so Assante as insurance increased his value to the Eagles.

Your view of my loyalty tot he front office is akin to liberal's view of Fox news, they are so far left that any common sense used to counter their positions is viewed as far right.(ok....I will get off the politics.....lolol)

I think if they really had a chance to pull the trigger for a 2nd and a 3rd and the choice was theirs they would have jumped on it and I think you know that too. It would be nice to now the truth but the writers on the Paper's staff in this town are not known for their impartiality covering a coach who they feel disrespects them.(forget the fact that they have been less than respectful covering him)

ok, that should be enough to piss some folks off.....hahahaha


and thank you, been busy....don't get here as often


Well, remember this was a team that got a 2nd rounder plus DRC for Kolb and a 2nd for Feeley and did pretty well with Mcnabb too (forget exectly what they got), so they could have thought it was "patently irresponsible" fo rthe Lions to only offer two threes. Their good trades of late could have taineted their view. I don't think it was a rumor. It was mentioned in less detail during other times during the last year here nad there but that was the first of the details.


Reality Fan
QUOTE (nephillymike @ Apr 28 2012, 11:53 AM) *
Well, remember this was a team that got a 2nd rounder plus DRC for Kolb and a 2nd for Feeley and did pretty well with Mcnabb too (forget exectly what they got), so they could have thought it was "patently irresponsible" fo rthe Lions to only offer two threes. Their good trades of late could have taineted their view. I don't think it was a rumor. It was mentioned in less detail during other times during the last year here nad there but that was the first of the details.



those trades support my position far more than yours Mikey, they are good at identifying the market AND their position..........it doesn't take a genius to realize both last season and this season that they were not in a position to demand a fortune......their need to drop Assante was more than other teams to drop their drawers to get him.......don't forget, this was not Assante from 3 years ago.......his star is dropping, not rising.
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