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Sandman1337
Before the combine and pro days, everyone as pretty much thinking that the Eagles were going to draft Luke Kuechly in the first round. Now we have signed DeMeco Ryans and Kuechly's draft stock has raised and could be selected before the Eagles #15 pick.. Now mock drafts have the Eagles selecting Fletcher Cox which is one of the many good picks we could make in the first round.. But the Eagles have two second round picks and I believe we need to use one of those on a linebacker.. Now the question is, which linebacker you think would suit Philly the best? I think the three that it should be narrowed down to are Zach Brown, Bobby Wagner, and Mychal Kendricks.. Any thoughts on which one of these guys the Eagles should draft or if we should even draft a linebacker in the second round at all?
D Rock
I'm still for Kuechly in the first should he fall to us. I don't think I'd jump up to get him unless cox is off the board.

I know we need more bodies at DT, but I can't understand the lack of love for Derek Landri. That dude was a beast for us last season. Statistically he was off the charts. He's just sitting out there. It reminds me of when we let Babbin walk away after playing well in very limitted time for us. Sign the guy and fix what's broken (LB corps).

I'd look at Cox as a fall back, luxury, BPA pick. No problem with taking Cox if Kuechly is off the board. In that case, I go Kendricks in the 2nd round.
HobbEs
Zach Brown.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ Apr 8 2012, 10:12 PM) *
I'm still for Kuechly in the first should he fall to us. I don't think I'd jump up to get him unless cox is off the board.

I know we need more bodies at DT, but I can't understand the lack of love for Derek Landri. That dude was a beast for us last season. Statistically he was off the charts. He's just sitting out there. It reminds me of when we let Babbin walk away after playing well in very limitted time for us. Sign the guy and fix what's broken (LB corps).

I'd look at Cox as a fall back, luxury, BPA pick. No problem with taking Cox if Kuechly is off the board. In that case, I go Kendricks in the 2nd round.



Well they took care of Landri and the explanation that goes with it explains why it took so long.....and I agree....if Kuechly is there, take him 1 second after your on the clock
Mud-n-Cleats
QUOTE (Sandman1337 @ Apr 8 2012, 12:11 PM) *
Before the combine and pro days, everyone as pretty much thinking that the Eagles were going to draft Luke Kuechly in the first round. Now we have signed DeMeco Ryans and Kuechly's draft stock has raised and could be selected before the Eagles #15 pick.. Now mock drafts have the Eagles selecting Fletcher Cox which is one of the many good picks we could make in the first round.. But the Eagles have two second round picks and I believe we need to use one of those on a linebacker.. Now the question is, which linebacker you think would suit Philly the best? I think the three that it should be narrowed down to are Zach Brown, Bobby Wagner, and Mychal Kendricks.. Any thoughts on which one of these guys the Eagles should draft or if we should even draft a linebacker in the second round at all?

Zach Brown at the end of the first round would make sense.

I never have a problem with what the Eagles do player wise, there are some questions moving into the 2012 season though.
Here's a quick read on it,
http://voices.yahoo.com/will-philidelphia-...524.html?cat=14
If you took a look thanks.
QUOTE
f you had to name the 2011 season for the Philadelphia Eagles, it might be "The Nightmare at Liberty."

At least that's how it was being sold all last season.

If I had to pick a name I'm going with "Jeckyl and Hyde."

The Eagles started out there season with high hopes and had almost everyone buying into it until Vince Young opened his yapper and put the hex on it. When asked what he thought about the Eagles in 2011, he uttered two words...

Dream team.

From that point on, the whole dynamic changed from a media standpoint. It's the first time I have seen a reaction to a comment by a backup quarterback get so scrutinized and hounded upon.

The effect on the team itself was also profound.

Apparently at least some of the locker room bought into the moniker and completely under-performed the first half of the season. Throw into the mix first time defensive coordinator Juan Castillo, the same Juan Castillo who had spent his career coaching offensive linemen, and it's real easy to get a glimpse into why the first half of the season the Eagles went 3-5.

The veteran defensive players refused to buy into Castillo's play calling to start the season. Cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha came out in December and stated that he, along with his teammates, didn't believe in Castillo to start the season, but as time wore on, their faith grew and it was apparent on the field as the Eagles started to play much better defensively as reported by Clifton Brown of the Sporting News.

As for the offense it was a mixed bag.

First, there was the play or lack there-of from Desean Jackson. Philadelphia's most talented wide receiver threw himself a season long pity party over contract issues. There were missed meetings, lack of effort and the constant woe-is-me attitude when being interviewed.

Then there was the inconsistent play of Michael Vick. Six years, $100 million with $40 million upfront guaranteed can make any player feel comfortable and possibly complacent. It showed in Michael's play as he never seemed to find a good groove throughout the year and finished the season with 3 fewer passing touchdowns, 8 fewer rushing touchdowns and 8 more interceptions than his 2010 campaign. It seems getting paid took some of the competitive spirit out of Mr. Vick's play.

Then there was LeSean "Shady" McCoy. Without McCoy the Eagles do not finish 8-8 and the offense would have been virtually nonexistent. Shady rushed for 1,309 yards with a 4.8 average and 17 touchdowns. That put McCoy first in TDs and fourth in yards. At this point I could go on and on about how much value I put on LeSean in the Eagles offense or what he means to the team dynamic...

But hold on, there is a problem for the Eagles even with Shady.

Starting off this season with a clean slate would have been a blessing for Philadelphia given how last year played out. They could have marched into training camp with a 'do or die' attitude and shook off the nightmare that Vince willed upon them last season.

They finished 2011 strong with four straight wins, the last two of which were against hated division rivals in the Dallas Cowboys and the Washington Redskins. It seemed as though all the nonsense about the team of dreams was finished, the doubt in Juan Castillo was replaced with confidence and the promise of getting a deal done with Jackson had the ball bouncing back Philly's way.

A solid way to end the season and one that would have me giving the Eagles a legit shot at winning the NFC East with the only hold back being a paid Michael Vick.

That was until LeSean McCoy decided the dream team Eagles were going to win the Super bowl after guaranteeing it on ESPN Wednesday March 21 as reported by Brian Solomon of NBC10 Philadelphia.

The signing of DeMecco Ryans will no doubt have a solid impact on the team and Philly has a decent enough track record on drafting for me to believe that they will continue to fill holes and improve talent wise.

The problem is the mindset they will take into 2012 along with an unmotivated starting quarterback.

It's early to make predictions but I think you can catch the trailer out in theaters now for the sequel to "The Nightmare at Liberty."
Flying Dutchman
Everything I read about Zach Brown lately is negative. He underperformed on the field and at the combine. He might be lucky now to get picked in the first round. I would prefer both Wagner and Kendricks (assuming that Luke Keuchwalker gets picked earlier than our 15th spot) before I would even begin to consider drafting a young version of Sims. He is similar to him in that he has the speed, the coverage ability and the total inability to tackle your grandmother. Tommy Lawlor did a good overview in a recent column:

"Zach Brown / Bobby Wagner ... watch these videos:

Wagner - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Brown - bad in bowl game - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Brown - vs LOU - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Here's the thing. Zach is the better player in space. He covers really well. That said, he's not as good in space as he needs to be. He misses too many tackles. He is sloppy at times with his angles and positioning. He's not a great space player.

When in traffic...Brown becomes a shoulder player. He takes on blocks with his shoulder. He tackles with his shoulder. He's almost bracing for contact instead of attacking his targets.

Wagner will take on blockers. In the video you see him bull rush OL. He drives NFL type blockers backward. He tackles well. He sticks his nose in traffic. He isn't hesitant about contact at all.

The reason Brown has gone down is that people have watched more and more of his tape. The more you see, the more frustrated you get. He has the physical skills to be a 1st rounder. Even then, he wasn't as good at the Combine as expected. His workout numbers didn't blow anyone away. Demario Davis had a more impressive overall workout.

Zach is talented, but his lack of physicality is troubling. You have to keep him off the ball and let him be a space LB. That's not how we use our OLBs anymore. The Eagles may still covet his cover skills and take him, but there will be concerns with him from all 32 teams. LBs that aren't tough and physical can't help but make you nervous."
Mud-n-Cleats
QUOTE (Flying Dutchman @ Apr 13 2012, 07:48 PM) *
Everything I read about Zach Brown lately is negative. He underperformed on the field and at the combine. He might be lucky now to get picked in the first round. I would prefer both Wagner and Kendricks (assuming that Luke Keuchwalker gets picked earlier than our 15th spot) before I would even begin to consider drafting a young version of Sims. He is similar to him in that he has the speed, the coverage ability and the total inability to tackle your grandmother. Tommy Lawlor did a good overview in a recent column:

"Zach Brown / Bobby Wagner ... watch these videos:

Wagner - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Brown - bad in bowl game - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Brown - vs LOU - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Here's the thing. Zach is the better player in space. He covers really well. That said, he's not as good in space as he needs to be. He misses too many tackles. He is sloppy at times with his angles and positioning. He's not a great space player.

When in traffic...Brown becomes a shoulder player. He takes on blocks with his shoulder. He tackles with his shoulder. He's almost bracing for contact instead of attacking his targets.

Wagner will take on blockers. In the video you see him bull rush OL. He drives NFL type blockers backward. He tackles well. He sticks his nose in traffic. He isn't hesitant about contact at all.

The reason Brown has gone down is that people have watched more and more of his tape. The more you see, the more frustrated you get. He has the physical skills to be a 1st rounder. Even then, he wasn't as good at the Combine as expected. His workout numbers didn't blow anyone away. Demario Davis had a more impressive overall workout.

Zach is talented, but his lack of physicality is troubling. You have to keep him off the ball and let him be a space LB. That's not how we use our OLBs anymore. The Eagles may still covet his cover skills and take him, but there will be concerns with him from all 32 teams. LBs that aren't tough and physical can't help but make you nervous."


Wagner would be an interesting fit and would signal a different direction for the type of player that Andy Reid would want defensively.

Looking at it from the standpoint of who would better fit the current structure of the defense I liked what Brown has to offer but I won't disagree that Wagner has the potential to be a better pro.
koolaidluke
linebacker is a stupid position
koolaidluke
LB is the only position gayer than RB, which is saying a lot.
eaglesflow
To me Zach Brown is the easy choice.
Cooley
Definitely Zach Brown. He is the best and the only possible candidate
Jerome Brown Experience
I share the concerns with Zach Brown. Admittedly this is only based on a handful of games where I saw him play over the last two seasons but he did get swallowed up a lot. Not a guy who can shed blocks; fast and pretty good instincts but not a guy who can fight his way out of a phone booth in the NFL.

Kuechly is the big win at the 15 position in the draft....maybe Cox too, I am shocked by how many people are bigger on Poe than on Cox these days since his combine. Kuechly is a tackling machine and a freak of nature. Cox is also a beast; if you watched any Mississippi State games (and you would have to be a pretty degenerate gambler to have done so.....oh....hi) you heard his name called a lot.

This seems to be a DT-heavy draft, not a real LB heavy draft. Would love to be wrong though. After all the years we have had to watch our LBs get driven off the ball or be out of position hesitating until it is too late it would be great if we could at least be league average in our LB corps.
Jerome Brown Experience
To answer the question asked though, I love Andre Branch out of Clemson as an OLB. Really love him.

I never saw Bobby Wagner from Utah State that a few folks have us taking in mocks so I can't comment but I have heard from a handful of intelligent people that he is a beast. Hard to imagine that a guy playing in Weber, Utah would be that far off the charts though. I could do without Chris Gocong part deux.

I like - liiiiiiiiiiike - Lavonte David and wouldn't be disappointed if they grabbed him. He is not a big guy and I worry that he too (like Zach Brown) would get swallowed up but the guy is an unrreal tackler. I saw him play 8-9 times and he is very good with leverage and squares up to RBs very nicely.

The last quality player who might still be available is Mychal Kendricks out of Cal who was the PAC-12 defensive player of the year. He is getting some buzz lately but I saw Cal play twice last season and don't remember him.....like.....at all. Take that for what it is worth, which isn't much.
Dreagon
QUOTE (Jerome Brown Experience @ Apr 22 2012, 12:18 PM) *
I am shocked by how many people are bigger on Poe than on Cox these days since his combine. Kuechly is a tackling machine and a freak of nature. Cox is also a beast; if you watched any Mississippi State games (and you would have to be a pretty degenerate gambler to have done so.....oh....hi) you heard his name called a lot.


Yeah, that whole Poe hype machine has me a little worried as well. I think some team is going to pass on a field-proven, first round talent to take a chance on this workout warrior who has never really dominated on the field...and I'm scared to death it's going to be mine.

Kuechly would be exactly the type of tackling linebacker you guys need in the middle.
Flying Dutchman
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Apr 22 2012, 07:08 PM) *
Yeah, that whole Poe hype machine has me a little worried as well. I think some team is going to pass on a field-proven, first round talent to take a chance on this workout warrior who has never really dominated on the field...and I'm scared to death it's going to be mine.

Kuechly would be exactly the type of tackling linebacker you guys need in the middle.


Except that we already have an experienced, all-pro, 4/3 MLB and Kuechly's style of play may not translate well to the SAM position. Wagner, David, Kendrick and maybe even Robinson all stack up as having better potential at SAM.
Jerome Brown Experience
QUOTE (Flying Dutchman @ Apr 23 2012, 10:11 PM) *
Except that we already have an experienced, all-pro, 4/3 MLB and Kuechly's style of play may not translate well to the SAM position. Wagner, David, Kendrick and maybe even Robinson all stack up as having better potential at SAM.


This is a fair point. I still like Kuechly a lot and I think that having a guy who can tackle walls is always a good thing, but if Ryans is fully back to health (and he may well be) and is in form then Kuechly may not be the top pick. Would still love to see him playing for us though. I mean....we have had a lot of luck with BC linebackers.... ohmy.gif

Btw, nice presses, those are pretty ludicrous.
Jerome Brown Experience
Walterfootball.com reporting that they have heard that the Eagles will trade up to get Fletcher Cox at Jacksonville's pick, swapping their first round anf the 51st pick.

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2012charlie.php

Obviously this may impact our LB acquisition plans but a monster like Cox will make everyone's lives a lot easier. I would really love this scenario. Cox could be the next.........I'm not going to speak his name....but you know where I am going with this.

Flying Dutchman
QUOTE (Jerome Brown Experience @ Apr 24 2012, 01:34 PM) *
Btw, nice presses, those are pretty ludicrous.



Thanks, those were back on my 67th IIRC, back before my wife passed away. Now I am back in a New commited relationship and lifting hard again. In the past week alone I have done a 300 lb Squat(real ass-to-grass style, no wishy washy crap), 5 X 440 in a Rack Deadlift (with a serious hold on each rep), DIPs at 10 X 90 and 5 X 250 in the BP (touching out on each rep). I am an old fanatic about form. But jeez I feel like I am closer to 35 than my 70! I can't wait till I am even bigger and stronger at 80 LOL!
bebina
only two I consider in the 2nd..Bobby Wagner & Lavonte David
bebina
let me know when Cox runs a 4.6...he's good but its blasphemy to compare him to the great one
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Flying Dutchman @ Apr 24 2012, 09:37 PM) *
Thanks, those were back on my 67th IIRC, back before my wife passed away. Now I am back in a New commited relationship and lifting hard again. In the past week alone I have done a 300 lb Squat(real ass-to-grass style, no wishy washy crap), 5 X 440 in a Rack Deadlift (with a serious hold on each rep), DIPs at 10 X 90 and 5 X 250 in the BP (touching out on each rep). I am an old fanatic about form. But jeez I feel like I am closer to 35 than my 70! I can't wait till I am even bigger and stronger at 80 LOL!


You definitely look jacked for a 70-year old. Do you have a respectable 40-yard dash? Maybe you can make the Eagles at FS.....
Flying Dutchman
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Apr 25 2012, 07:57 PM) *
You definitely look jacked for a 70-year old. Do you have a respectable 40-yard dash? Maybe you can make the Eagles at FS.....

When I was young, 50+ years ago, I was a decent sprinter. By 1961 I was hitting 4:17 in the Boardwalk Mile down ashore. Nowadays I am happy to catch the missus when I chase her around the bedpost. I did warm up in the gym today with a 270 in the BP which pumped me up so I could hold her down LOL. Catching and dropping a good NFL player as a SS is but a cherished, recurring dream. As Bobby Clanton once sang long ago, "Just a dream, just a dream"!
_KAMELOT_
Zach Brown, no question about it.
Jerome Brown Experience
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Apr 22 2012, 07:08 PM) *
Yeah, that whole Poe hype machine has me a little worried as well. I think some team is going to pass on a field-proven, first round talent to take a chance on this workout warrior who has never really dominated on the field...and I'm scared to death it's going to be mine.


The Poe haircut was probably my favorite part of the draft last night. It was the first time I can remember when there were no suits of note but a hairstyle stole the show in the first round.
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