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BirdsWinBaby
Philly.com

Our QB situation is a mess. its a mess that doesnt get much airplay due to stuff like Castillo, Djax, safties and LBs, etc...but its not wise to ignore it. not so much due to this coming season but the future. even if Vick plays well and plays every down (lol) he is over 30 with a ton of mileage/injuries on his small frame. he isnt the future of the team obviously. the other QBs on the team are just a couple of guys.

another reason to draft a QB is "Andy Reid's history of grooming QBs." AR has a reputation as the greatest QB coach since sliced bread. he will know how to recognize the talent needed to run HIS system and coach that guy up to be great!

there are a couple of reasons for NOT drafting a QB tho. if you think AR is going to leave after this year, it makes sense to squeeze a year or two more out of Vick while the new HC comes in next year, drafts his QB (that works for HIS system) and then the rook gets maybe 6-8 games on the bench and then becomes the starter midway thru the 2013 season.

another reason to wait is "Andy Reid's history of grooming QBs." AR has a reputation as the greatest QB coach since sliced bread. he will...uh.... know how to recognize ....um....talent and...well

Dmac -'99
Feeley - '01
Andy hall - '04
Kolb - '07
Kafka - '10

is a guy sporting a list of draftees like that the guy you want to pick your next QB? especially since you might well be saddled with him if/when AR leaves eventually?

whats your opinion?
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ Mar 27 2012, 09:21 AM) *
Our QB situation is a mess

Dmac -'99
Feeley - '01
Andy hall - '04
Kolb - '07
Kafka - '10


LOL

That statement would seem odd when juxtaposed with your statement of Andy's reputation as an all-world QB coach. Honestly, his 'talents' as QB coach are more overrated than Freddie Mitchell's hands. The funny thing is that most of the time the same people who prop up how great of a QB coach he is are the same morons who trash McNabb for being 'the worst QB ever' or whatever idiotic rambling comes out of their mouths. Apart from #5, the only QB on that list who could POSSIBLY end up being worth more than a mouse fart is Kolb, and that's doubtful. Remember, it was his grand plan to tutor Kolb while McNabb played out his last few years, then he would be our future QB - 4 years of planning changed in a matter of one week when Kolb came out, sucked royally, and Vick came in and brought us back against GB and won the following week vs Detroit. "My bad guys, let's go with #7."

Whatever - point being, I would fully expect him to draft a QB. Do I think he should? No.....why? Take a look at that list again.
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Mar 27 2012, 10:38 AM) *
That statement would seem odd when juxtaposed with your statement of Andy's reputation as an all-world QB coach. Honestly, his 'talents' as QB coach are more overrated than Freddie Mitchell's hands.

I have been saying this for some time now. He is very overrated.
cheers.gif
koolaidluke
Honestly, his 'talents' as QB coach are more overrated

Your heterosexuality is overrated.

Reid developed Favre, Hasselback, Brunell, Feeley, Kolb and Vick. He made the greatest fraud in history, Donovan McNabb, look like a legitimate QB, something even QB guru Mike Shanahan couldn't do. He also resurrected the career of Jeff Garcia who was regarded as shot when Reid picked him up.

Reid has had his misses too: Doug Pederson, Andy Hall, Timmy Chang and Mike McMahon, but being a QB guru doesn't mean you can turn anybody into a QB, there still needs to be a minimum level of talent to work with. Even the best sculpter can only do so much when he is working with Playdo.


In answer to the topic question: I think we should draft a QB if a good one is available. Reid will be gone after this year but it still gives him a year to work with the guy. Vick should have one or two more years left after this and between Kafka and the new guy, maybe one of them will develop.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE
Your heterosexuality is overrated.


You will address me as 'father' or 'sir'

QUOTE
Reid developed Favre, Hasselback, Brunell, Feeley, Kolb and Vick. He made the greatest fraud in history, Donovan McNabb, look like a legitimate QB, something even QB guru Mike Shanahan couldn't do. He also resurrected the career of Jeff Garcia who was regarded as shot when Reid picked him up


Addressing your ramblings is probably going to be a complete waste of time, but just for fun.....

Favre & Brunell: Funny, I didn't know these guys were tight ends or offensive linemen.....oh THAT'S right, they were actually developed by Steve Mariucci! Reid was named QB coach after GB won the SB.....so in essence, you could say all he taught Favre how to do was lose NFC Championship games, Andy's greatest talent. The fact that Reid was in Green Bay at the same time as these guys, and the fact that they probably met many times (usually while they walked past the buffet table in the locker room) doesn't mean anything

Hasselbeck: Hasselbeck went to the Seahawks long after Andy became HC here.....where he was reunited with Mike Holmgren.....in a matter of 2 years, he went from fighting with Trent Dilfer (Andy's work) for a starting position to being a Pro-Bowler, and then he led the Seahawks to a Super Bowl. *beep* wrong again

Garcia: Chalk up another one for Mariucci - Garcia was never 'shot,' it's called being a 'Brown' and a 'Lion' - when he got a chance to play here again, he did quite well, as he was always a very good QB.

Feeley & Kolb: Really? If you need these two to back up your 'argument' then just give up. Feeley, 28 tds/31 ints in 11 years of playing, Kolb 20 tds/22 ints in 5 years of playing. But hey, maybe Kolb will end up being great? rolleyes.gif

Vick: He led the Falcons to the NFC Champ. game against us in '04, with an offensive gameplan of scramble until you can find Crumpler. With Djax, Maclin, Shady, Celek, Avant, etc. he hasn't won one playoff game with us. I think he's a good QB, but again, if you're resting on this for your argument, it doesn't do much.

Back to square one: the only Qb he definitely developed into a star was McNabb - who you say is the greatest fraud on earth wacko.gif
D Rock
I love how our dim set membership fails to see the correlation between a "great QB coach" and players having their only successful seasons under him. Sure the touchy feeley group of players were marginal at best. But they looked much better than that here. Or perhaps teams often trade away pro bowlers and 2nd round picks for game managers all the time?

Let's see here . . .

A guy looks like a solid starter and potential franchise guy here. Then goes elsewhere and is exposed as just a guy. I wonder why he looked so much better in Philly.

hunch.gif

Must be the perty shade of green because phits sez the coach sux.

boohoo.gif

BirdsWinBaby
NM

ninja'd by House
HobbEs
The question should be rephrased as the McLane article suggested packaging our #1 and both #2's to move up to the 3rd or 4th spot in the draft in order to take Tannehill.

So, would I like Andy to draft a QB? Yes, if one is available when we pick. Would I package our top three picks to get one? Hell no. We have other needs like LB and Safety that we need to fill.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ Mar 27 2012, 12:08 PM) *
NM

ninja'd by House


And we have my first signature!

jumpclap.gif
Phits
what you have failed to recognize is that there is a vocal minority here who believe that the sun rises and sets with Reid. He is virtually flawless in their eyes. They refuse to accept that he had a good run but his shortcomings have become unbearable. You can provide all the facts in the world, but their "gut" and media propaganda have firmed their opinion.

QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Mar 27 2012, 12:00 PM) *
You will address me as 'father' or 'sir'



Addressing your ramblings is probably going to be a complete waste of time, but just for fun.....

Favre & Brunell: Funny, I didn't know these guys were tight ends or offensive linemen.....oh THAT'S right, they were actually developed by Steve Mariucci! Reid was named QB coach after GB won the SB.....so in essence, you could say all he taught Favre how to do was lose NFC Championship games, Andy's greatest talent. The fact that Reid was in Green Bay at the same time as these guys, and the fact that they probably met many times (usually while they walked past the buffet table in the locker room) doesn't mean anything

Hasselbeck: Hasselbeck went to the Seahawks long after Andy became HC here.....where he was reunited with Mike Holmgren.....in a matter of 2 years, he went from fighting with Trent Dilfer (Andy's work) for a starting position to being a Pro-Bowler, and then he led the Seahawks to a Super Bowl. *beep* wrong again

Garcia: Chalk up another one for Mariucci - Garcia was never 'shot,' it's called being a 'Brown' and a 'Lion' - when he got a chance to play here again, he did quite well, as he was always a very good QB.

Feeley & Kolb: Really? If you need these two to back up your 'argument' then just give up. Feeley, 28 tds/31 ints in 11 years of playing, Kolb 20 tds/22 ints in 5 years of playing. But hey, maybe Kolb will end up being great? rolleyes.gif

Vick: He led the Falcons to the NFC Champ. game against us in '04, with an offensive gameplan of scramble until you can find Crumpler. With Djax, Maclin, Shady, Celek, Avant, etc. he hasn't won one playoff game with us. I think he's a good QB, but again, if you're resting on this for your argument, it doesn't do much.

Back to square one: the only Qb he definitely developed into a star was McNabb - who you say is the greatest fraud on earth wacko.gif

Reality Fan
QUOTE (Phits @ Mar 27 2012, 03:23 PM) *
what you have failed to recognize is that there is a vocal minority here who believe that the sun rises and sets with Reid. He is virtually flawless in their eyes. They refuse to accept that he had a good run but his shortcomings have become unbearable. You can provide all the facts in the world, but their "gut" and media propaganda have firmed their opinion.


actually, I think the vocal minority is the exact opposite, it is the "he will never win a SB" crowd(ignoring recent history proving the idiocy of such comments that occurred some 300 miles west). If you don't like Reid, that is one thing and understandable but it is hard to refute he is a good coach, even great coaches have bad years, it happens.

Now as far as using guys like those listed above as his ability to judge QB talent, I have to laugh. Only an idiot would believe that Hall, Kafka and Feeley were drafted as anything more than camp arms/backups, the fact that Kolb and Feeley were both traded for quality draft picks and/or players is a testament to AR's ability to coach up QBs.

He is far from flawless but he is a good coach.
Reality Fan
on a side note........ARs first year as a QB coach was the year the Pack won the NFC championship and lost to the Broncos in the SB........I don't have time to look at the rest but facts are facts.......if I am bored later I might check the rest but AR is not the guy who credits himself for any of the QB's success....that is done by the QBs themselves and by coaches and team personnel throughout the league but I am sure they don't know nearly as much about his performance and involvement as a few here......just sayin....
make_it_rain
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Mar 27 2012, 11:00 AM) *
You will address me as 'father' or 'sir'



Addressing your ramblings is probably going to be a complete waste of time, but just for fun.....

Favre & Brunell: Funny, I didn't know these guys were tight ends or offensive linemen.....oh THAT'S right, they were actually developed by Steve Mariucci! Reid was named QB coach after GB won the SB.....so in essence, you could say all he taught Favre how to do was lose NFC Championship games, Andy's greatest talent. The fact that Reid was in Green Bay at the same time as these guys, and the fact that they probably met many times (usually while they walked past the buffet table in the locker room) doesn't mean anything

Hasselbeck: Hasselbeck went to the Seahawks long after Andy became HC here.....where he was reunited with Mike Holmgren.....in a matter of 2 years, he went from fighting with Trent Dilfer (Andy's work) for a starting position to being a Pro-Bowler, and then he led the Seahawks to a Super Bowl. *beep* wrong again

Garcia: Chalk up another one for Mariucci - Garcia was never 'shot,' it's called being a 'Brown' and a 'Lion' - when he got a chance to play here again, he did quite well, as he was always a very good QB.

Feeley & Kolb: Really? If you need these two to back up your 'argument' then just give up. Feeley, 28 tds/31 ints in 11 years of playing, Kolb 20 tds/22 ints in 5 years of playing. But hey, maybe Kolb will end up being great? rolleyes.gif

Vick: He led the Falcons to the NFC Champ. game against us in '04, with an offensive gameplan of scramble until you can find Crumpler. With Djax, Maclin, Shady, Celek, Avant, etc. he hasn't won one playoff game with us. I think he's a good QB, but again, if you're resting on this for your argument, it doesn't do much.

Back to square one: the only Qb he definitely developed into a star was McNabb - who you say is the greatest fraud on earth wacko.gif


koolaidluke
An alpha male like me isn't afraid to admit his mistakes. Indeed, Reid was just the OL coach for Favre and Brunell. I had forgotten that Reid did not begin as a QBs coach. I was wrong, for once in my life, and I apologize.

The rest of my post, however, was just pure truth bombs.
Reality Fan
Ok, had a few minutes......

Brunell and Hasselbeck should not even be mentioned.......one was almost done and the other wasn't even in town
Favre may have benefited.....he certainly loved Reid...but impact is questionable

Left off of the criticism was McNabb which is a huge omission considering he looks so pedestrian now but was a top QB for several years early in his career.

Garcia? He was done and yes, he played for the Browns and the Lions but even Joey Harrington outplayed him in Detroit with the same bad team. Hard to argue that one.

I had to laugh at the dismissal of Kolb and Feeley as worthless to support the argument......Feeley was traded for a 2nd rd pick and Kolb a 2nd AND DRC. He may have missed or reached on Kolb but he made him look good enough to get a top pick for him and a player and he looks like an outright theif with Feeley for a 2nd.

Vick simply has not stayed on the field enough but that is a seperate argument. Ask Ray Didinger about Vick's evolution here. He watches more film than anyone I know, he and Brian Baldinger and Ron Jaworski all note the same thing when they go over the game tapes.(part of their job) While he sometimes slips into old Vick mode he now plays like a QB and makes reads and throws he never did.

Will he win the big one? No idea but I can't say he won't either. It is without question he has become a much better QB.

TGryn
* Nothing lasts forever, but making draft decisions on the assumption that Reid won't be here a couple of years from now is just foolish. If nothing else, AR's shown the ability to persist. Saying "well, of COURSE he won't be here when 2014 rolls around, so we CAN'T want him to draft a QB for us!" sounds like whistling past the graveyard by the anti-Reid camp.

* We've had our shortcomings under Andy, but bad QB play hasn't been one of them. Compare McNabb/Kolb/Vick to the Rhodes years, when we were treated to Peete/Detmer/Hoying. There's a strong argument to be made that McNabb is the greatest QB in franchise history, and he came in as a gifted option QB out of Syracuse. Reid deserves the lion's share of the credit for turning him into a top WCO QB, and the best QB out of that draft class.

* Tannehill's a good prospect, but not somebody you can't find in the 1st round most years. The stronger argument to me is that any QB we draft this year we'll have the time to develop, whereas if we wait a couple more years the need to have a replacement for Vick will really have become urgent. The guy I'm more interested in for us is 6'7" Brock Osweiler, who can probably be had in the 2nd. Less ready to start than Tannehill, but we can afford the time to develop him.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 27 2012, 07:07 PM) *
I had to laugh at the dismissal of Kolb and Feeley as worthless to support the argument......Feeley was traded for a 2nd rd pick and Kolb a 2nd AND DRC. He may have missed or reached on Kolb but he made him look good enough to get a top pick for him and a player and he looks like an outright theif with Feeley for a 2nd.


Well remember, in my posts I was simply responding to the examples kool-aid made, good and bad, which is why I mentiuoned Kafka, Hall, Feeley, etc. etc. I wasn't here to see your reaction, but I have to think the Kolb for DRC deal was highway robbery and shocked us all. Sure he showed some potential, as did Feeley, but maybe there's a reason why the Cardinals and Dolphins have sucked for most of the last 2 decades, and it's not just the players biggrin.gif

On a side note, the way Andy developed McNabb was excellent - instead of throwing him to the wolves like all of us wanted, he patiently worked in McNabb behind Pederson, allowing him to become more comfortable while learning a bit from a veteran. It's no mistake that a 5-11 crapfest turned into a 5-year exciting though ultimately disappointing run. He's a good coach and he turned the franchise around, I've never heard anyone say otherwise, but I think he's worn out his time here and it's time to bring someone else in, at least while Michael Vick is alive, to see if they can reach the next level. He'll coach for one more year, then we'll see what happens. That's all.
mcnabbulous
I'd prefer not drafting a QB this year, because none of them interest me besides the first two. I'd much rather spend our first 3 picks on potential impact players or positioning ourselves for a top guy next year.

With that said, I somewhat expect us to draft a guy relatively early.
bebina
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Mar 27 2012, 12:43 PM) *
The question should be rephrased as the McLane article suggested packaging our #1 and both #2's to move up to the 3rd or 4th spot in the draft in order to take Tannehill.

So, would I like Andy to draft a QB? Yes, if one is available when we pick. Would I package our top three picks to get one? Hell no. We have other needs like LB and Safety that we need to fill.


dont get to excited about drafting a safety bc we won't...that position is pretty much set.....unless we get a veteran
bebina
QUOTE (TGryn @ Mar 27 2012, 09:13 PM) *
* Nothing lasts forever, but making draft decisions on the assumption that Reid won't be here a couple of years from now is just foolish. If nothing else, AR's shown the ability to persist. Saying "well, of COURSE he won't be here when 2014 rolls around, so we CAN'T want him to draft a QB for us!" sounds like whistling past the graveyard by the anti-Reid camp.

* We've had our shortcomings under Andy, but bad QB play hasn't been one of them. Compare McNabb/Kolb/Vick to the Rhodes years, when we were treated to Peete/Detmer/Hoying. There's a strong argument to be made that McNabb is the greatest QB in franchise history, and he came in as a gifted option QB out of Syracuse. Reid deserves the lion's share of the credit for turning him into a top WCO QB, and the best QB out of that draft class.

* Tannehill's a good prospect, but not somebody you can't find in the 1st round most years. The stronger argument to me is that any QB we draft this year we'll have the time to develop, whereas if we wait a couple more years the need to have a replacement for Vick will really have become urgent. The guy I'm more interested in for us is 6'7" Brock Osweiler, who can probably be had in the 2nd. Less ready to start than Tannehill, but we can afford the time to develop him.


No thanks don't want him..looks like a bust...name the last qb 6'7 or above who had success in the league

I say take B.J. Coleman, Austin Davis, John Brantley in the 5th or 6th and develop them
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