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HOUSEoPAIN
Done deal.

Looks like that's a wrap - Manning is a Bronco.
Dreagon
Welp, I sure missed that call. I thought for sure he would end up in SF. Of course, if Denver is good enough to make it into the playoffs and win a game with a QB who completes 46% percent of his passes...they may be really dangerous with Manning.

And just to continue my day of predictions that will most likely be wrong...Tebow to Miami!
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Mar 19 2012, 01:01 PM) *
And just to continue my day of predictions that will most likely be wrong...Tebow to Miami!


Well I think he'll start somewhere, I'm not sure Miami is the best fot for him - though the Dolphins might be thinking more about season tickets and revenue, which Tebow will certainly bring in abundance.
HobbEs
With Marty & Andy's history of developing QBs would anyone be surprised if he ended up an Eagle?
canadianeagle
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Mar 19 2012, 12:56 PM) *
With Marty & Andy's history of developing QBs would anyone be surprised if he ended up an Eagle?


Maybe as a F.A. but what kind of pick do you think the Eagles would pay? I can't see more that a 6th. Surely Denver would get more than that from someone else.
Rick
I'm a bit surprised. They have no receivers to speak of and it's COLD there in the winter. I really thought he'd end up in SF. If it were me, I'd have gone to SF (knowing what I know of course). They just made it to the NFC Championship game. They've got a great defense and they're working on bringing in more receivers. Oh, the weather doesn't totally suck either.

If Jacksonville were smart, they'd try and trade for Tebow. They love him here (he's from Jacksonville) and the fans here really don't care much about the pro game (it's all college here). This would absolutely sell LOTS of tickets if they were to trade for him. I doubt they will though.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Rick @ Mar 19 2012, 02:58 PM) *
If Jacksonville were smart, they'd try and trade for Tebow


Well in theory if they wanted Manning to start and take Tebow under his wing and help develop him, this would be a great move for the Broncos. I think it's safe to say that isn't happening though, it'll be interesting to see where he goes. I don't think the new administration in Miami wants him other than to sell tickets, JAX might be a decent fit but they just got their 'future QB' and probably won't want to start all over. Who knows, who cares, my bracket looks like shit so I need some entertainment.
Rick
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Mar 19 2012, 03:09 PM) *
Well in theory if they wanted Manning to start and take Tebow under his wing and help develop him, this would be a great move for the Broncos. I think it's safe to say that isn't happening though, it'll be interesting to see where he goes. I don't think the new administration in Miami wants him other than to sell tickets, JAX might be a decent fit but they just got their 'future QB' and probably won't want to start all over. Who knows, who cares, my bracket looks like shit so I need some entertainment.

I agree on Denver keeping Tebow and having him learn at the foot of the master. That would make the most sense.

And there are a lot of reasons Jacksonville probably won't do it (and why they didn't draft him originally). But, if you own a team, championships are great but making money selling tickets and jerseys is better. Tebow would do both IMMEDIATELY and he'd sell a LOT of them. But I agree with what you're saying.

And, after FSU losing last night, my bracket is officially busted...
HobbEs
It'll be interesting to see what SF does at this point. They have an offer on the table for Smith but he's in Miami talking to the Dolphins. They could stand to lose big here.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Mar 19 2012, 03:37 PM) *
They could stand to lose big here.


Good.

They haven't touched 13 wins since Young led them to a SB win, their punt returner singlehandedly loses them the game that should've put them in the Super Bowl, and those assholes turn right around and spread em open for Manning, who's 36 and has had a major neck injury? They deserve whatever they get.
Phits
QUOTE (HobbEs @ Mar 19 2012, 03:37 PM) *
It'll be interesting to see what SF does at this point. They have an offer on the table for Smith but he's in Miami talking to the Dolphins. They could stand to lose big here.

It took 6 seasons for the world to realize Smith is little more than a serviceable game manager.....and there are plenty of game manager's available. The 49ers finished with a 13-3 record in spite of Alex Smith, not because of him. He's last year's version of Trent Dilfer...minus the rings.
mcnabbulous
QUOTE (Phits @ Mar 19 2012, 05:34 PM) *
It took 6 seasons for the world to realize Smith is little more than a serviceable game manager.....and there are plenty of game manager's available. The 49ers finished with a 13-3 record in spite of Alex Smith, not because of him. He's last year's version of Trent Dilfer...minus the rings.

I agree with this. Harbaugh can get that kind of play out of someone else.

On the other subject, I'd say there is about a 60% chance he winds up in Philly. It seems like a very Andy move.
koolaidluke
This is a criminal act. If he had gone to San Fran they'd have been one of the favorites to win the Superbowl. Denver is not a good team and they don't have a lot of weapons. This decision is pure idiocy.
koolaidluke
QUOTE
The 49ers finished with a 13-3 record in spite of Alex Smith, not because of him.


Thank you. Can somebody please explain to me the sympathy people have for this guy? He sucks.

How come Sanchez supposedly is so horrible but Alex Smith, who is just a worse version of Sanchez gets praised as a decent QB?
Birdman420
Yeah this made no sense at all, I keep wondering why he chose Denver over all the others:

1. Is John Elway a childhood hero of his?

2.Is he trying to prove something by coming back from this injury to play for an unfavorable team/location?

3.Do the 49ers play his brother in the regular season?

HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Phits @ Mar 19 2012, 06:34 PM) *
It took 6 seasons for the world to realize Smith is little more than a serviceable game manager.....and there are plenty of game manager's available. The 49ers finished with a 13-3 record in spite of Alex Smith, not because of him. He's last year's version of Trent Dilfer...minus the rings.


That's just ridiculous. He had a few shitty years, I've said he sucks plenty of times, but with the right coach and the right system he became a pretty damn good QB last year. We should know, considering we had to watch him embarass us after being down 23-3, no? 90 QB rating, 17/5, 4 comeback victories, best td/int ratio in the league. In spite of him? I think Brees would say different, as would Eli (considering Smith torched the Giants in the regular season). If not for one special teams douchebag, they would've been NFC champs and could've very well beaten the Pats. He's not going to put up Brady numbers, and he doesn't have to - he fits in with Harbaugh's system well. Maybe Harbaugh is just a genius and could get that kind of play out of anyone, or maybe a QB with potential finally was put in a position to succeed - think Mike Shanahan coaching Tom Brady.

P.S. Epic Troll agrees with you - maybe you should rethink your position biggrin.gif
Phits
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Mar 20 2012, 12:33 PM) *
That's just ridiculous. He had a few shitty years, I've said he sucks plenty of times, but with the right coach and the right system he became a pretty damn good QB last year.

He would be interviewing for a high school HC position right now if not for a single decent season (for his entire career). That's the kind of leniency that #1 draft picks tend to receive. With every fraction of a good play, people think that he is going to be the kind of player that his draft pick status is/was deserving of. the truth is that Smith will be a decent back-up QB somewhere, because he doesn't have the moxy to be a true #1. He's not the type of QB to carry the team on his back if his D begins to sputter (even though the 49ers have the offensive weapons to do so).
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Phits @ Mar 20 2012, 02:10 PM) *
He would be interviewing for a high school HC position right now if not for a single decent season (for his entire career). That's the kind of leniency that #1 draft picks tend to receive. With every fraction of a good play, people think that he is going to be the kind of player that his draft pick status is/was deserving of. the truth is that Smith will be a decent back-up QB somewhere, because he doesn't have the moxy to be a true #1. He's not the type of QB to carry the team on his back if his D begins to sputter (even though the 49ers have the offensive weapons to do so).


I've far exhausted all the energy I'm willing to expend defending Alex Smith.

Point being, I think he fits in well in SF, and has potential as we saw last year. Agree to disagree, what he does this season will validate or invalidate last season.
Dreagon
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Mar 19 2012, 12:34 PM) *
Well I think he'll start somewhere, I'm not sure Miami is the best fot for him - though the Dolphins might be thinking more about season tickets and revenue, which Tebow will certainly bring in abundance.


And he's a Jet blink.gif

I don't even begin to understand the logic of that move. Tim Tebow is a complete fish out of water in New York City.
Rick
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Mar 21 2012, 02:46 PM) *
And he's a Jet blink.gif

I don't even begin to understand the logic of that move. Tim Tebow is a complete fish out of water in New York City.

Not only that but they just gave Sanchez a boatload of money on an extension. This shows a lack of confidence in him.

Also, Tebow will be competing for a backup position after starting. Now, if you're backing up someone good I understand it but he'll be backing up Mark Sanchez! That's just harsh.

I just don't think this is a good move for either the Jets or Tebow.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Rick @ Mar 21 2012, 02:53 PM) *
I just don't think this is a good move for either the Jets or Tebow.


I was actually thinking NYJ recently may be an option. First of all, Sanchez sucks out loud, and you can pin last year's disappointment on him. Second, per the first reason, the more you run and the less you pass, is good news for the Jets, who can only look to Shonn Greene until now. I think the Jets defense and a Tebow-run offense will be better than last year, which truthfully implies I think he was brought in for a backup job in name only. He'll get a few snaps a game, Sanchez will suck ass, they'll bring in Tebow, etc. He's got a great defense and solid running attack, if he wants to prove last year wasn't a fluke then this is his chance.
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (Birdman420 @ Mar 19 2012, 09:46 PM) *
Yeah this made no sense at all, I keep wondering why he chose Denver over all the others:

1. Is John Elway a childhood hero of his?

2.Is he trying to prove something by coming back from this injury to play for an unfavorable team/location?

3.Do the 49ers play his brother in the regular season?



1) he wanted to stay in the AFC

2) he went to a division that was won by a .500 team last year

3) when deciding who you want to play to make it to the playoffs, why choose a divison with teams like the Steelers, Pats or even the Texans when you can choose to beat up on the Raiders and Chiefs twice a year
Rick
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Mar 21 2012, 03:04 PM) *
I was actually thinking NYJ recently may be an option. First of all, Sanchez sucks out loud, and you can pin last year's disappointment on him. Second, per the first reason, the more you run and the less you pass, is good news for the Jets, who can only look to Shonn Greene until now. I think the Jets defense and a Tebow-run offense will be better than last year, which truthfully implies I think he was brought in for a backup job in name only. He'll get a few snaps a game, Sanchez will suck ass, they'll bring in Tebow, etc. He's got a great defense and solid running attack, if he wants to prove last year wasn't a fluke then this is his chance.

NY didn't pay Sanchez all of that money to sit him. They're gonna try and make him work.

Tebow probably used on 3rd downs and other interesting situations (i.e. as a gimmick). He is an awful expensive gimmick player.

I just don't see this working out well in the end.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Rick @ Mar 21 2012, 05:19 PM) *
NY didn't pay Sanchez all of that money to sit him. They're gonna try and make him work.



Obviously. But now they have someone to motivate Sanchez not to suck so bad. Every time Sanchez is under center, he's gonna see Tebow jerseys in the crowd and know he better perform or else. And for the Tebow-fanatics, he'll get 5-7 plays per game to satisfy their hunger.
Dreagon
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Mar 21 2012, 08:09 PM) *
Obviously. But now they have someone to motivate Sanchez not to suck so bad. Every time Sanchez is under center, he's gonna see Tebow jerseys in the crowd and know he better perform or else. And for the Tebow-fanatics, he'll get 5-7 plays per game to satisfy their hunger.


Personally, I'm going to laugh my ass off at the Broncos if after all this, Peyton has a neck flare up after his first game or two with real contact and stinks up the place. I'll feel bad for Manning, but i won't have an ounce of sympathy for Elway and his organization.

Meanwhile, I think the Jets are about to become a circus...

...or a bigger circus.

I'll be curious to see how Tebow is accepted by New York fans.
Phits
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Mar 21 2012, 09:30 PM) *
Personally, I'm going to laugh my ass off at the Broncos if after all this, Peyton has a neck flare up after his first game or two with real contact and stinks up the place. I'll feel bad for Manning, but i won't have an ounce of sympathy for Elway and his organization.

Tebow's proven to be a sideshow. if the Bronco's defense can play half as well as they did last season, all Manning will have to do is manage the game and not hav as many 3 and outs...which shouldn't be hard as long as his head stays attached to his neck.
Bez
QUOTE (Dreagon @ Mar 21 2012, 08:30 PM) *
Personally, I'm going to laugh my ass off at the Broncos if after all this, Peyton has a neck flare up after his first game or two with real contact and stinks up the place. I'll feel bad for Manning, but i won't have an ounce of sympathy for Elway and his organization.

Meanwhile, I think the Jets are about to become a circus...

...or a bigger circus.

I'll be curious to see how Tebow is accepted by New York fans.
Let them wear purple and gold like LSU . I would try to utilize both of them in games.
Bez
QUOTE (Phits @ Mar 21 2012, 11:21 PM) *
Tebow's proven to be a sideshow. if the Bronco's defense can play half as well as they did last season, all Manning will have to do is manage the game and not hav as many 3 and outs...which shouldn't be hard as long as his head stays attached to his neck.
Considering his lifestyle I am going to take a leap of faith and say he is going to grow , not retard as long as he plays . HE has to do something with those brain cells in the absence of sex , and alcheehol..
Rick
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Mar 21 2012, 09:09 PM) *
Obviously. But now they have someone to motivate Sanchez not to suck so bad. Every time Sanchez is under center, he's gonna see Tebow jerseys in the crowd and know he better perform or else. And for the Tebow-fanatics, he'll get 5-7 plays per game to satisfy their hunger.

If Sanchez wasn't motivated before, this isn't gonna motivate him any more. He will either suck or not suck. Tebow will have nothing to do with that.

It also shows a lack of confidence in your starting QB...never a good thing. Sure, they came out and said he's still their man, blah blah blah, but, in reality, if Sanchez sucks the big one for the first few games, we all know he'll be yanked. So, in reality, he's really only their man...until he isn't any longer.

This kind of, "motivation," has never worked with other players, why do we think it will work this time? Sanchez, well, he just sucks. That isn't gonna change.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Rick @ Mar 22 2012, 08:48 AM) *
This kind of, "motivation," has never worked with other players, why do we think it will work this time? Sanchez, well, he just sucks. That isn't gonna change.


Well you make my point. The Jets don't care if Sanchez's attitude changes or not - if it doesn't, and he still sucks, he'll find himself on the bench and his career will hit rock bottom, because they'll have an actual serviceable backup. It's well-known publicly that a major gripe people have about Sanchez is he thinks he's entitled to be the eternal starter - remember how he reacted when Ryan was going to pull him that one time?
Rick
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Mar 22 2012, 10:43 AM) *
Well you make my point. The Jets don't care if Sanchez's attitude changes or not - if it doesn't, and he still sucks, he'll find himself on the bench and his career will hit rock bottom, because they'll have an actual serviceable backup. It's well-known publicly that a major gripe people have about Sanchez is he thinks he's entitled to be the eternal starter - remember how he reacted when Ryan was going to pull him that one time?

They don't care if he sits the bench after they just gave him $40 million and extended his contract!!?? That makes absolutely no sense. They don't want him sitting the bench and being paid that kind of money.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Rick @ Mar 22 2012, 11:13 AM) *
They don't care if he sits the bench after they just gave him $40 million and extended his contract!!?? That makes absolutely no sense. They don't want him sitting the bench and being paid that kind of money.


Yes, they care. They also care that he sucks ass, and doesn't appear to really care all that much himself at times. I'm sure they know that what HE cares about is playing, and eventually getting a nice payday from them or someone else at the end of his contract. He can't do that if he's sitting on the bench eating hot dogs all game.

Look everyone seems confused by this move, I just think it makes a little bit of sense, and the bottom line is the more you take the ball out of Sanchez's hands, the better for that team. They have an all-star defense and Shonn Greene is a very good RB.
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Mar 22 2012, 10:24 AM) *
I just think it makes a little bit of sense, and the bottom line is the more you take the ball out of Sanchez's hands, the better for that team.


yea but you are giving it to tebow. If your solution to a QB who sucks is Tebow you have already lost

Jets FO = epic fail
Rick
QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Mar 22 2012, 11:24 AM) *
Yes, they care. They also care that he sucks ass, and doesn't appear to really care all that much himself at times. I'm sure they know that what HE cares about is playing, and eventually getting a nice payday from them or someone else at the end of his contract. He can't do that if he's sitting on the bench eating hot dogs all game.

And he just GOT a contract making good money--in fact, they were the ones who just gave it to them (what, not even 30 days ago?).

QUOTE (HOUSEoPAIN @ Mar 22 2012, 11:24 AM) *
Look everyone seems confused by this move, I just think it makes a little bit of sense, and the bottom line is the more you take the ball out of Sanchez's hands, the better for that team. They have an all-star defense and Shonn Greene is a very good RB.

I can't disagree with you there.
Phits
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ Mar 22 2012, 03:08 PM) *
yea but you are giving it to tebow. If your solution to a QB who sucks is Tebow you have already lost

Jets FO = epic fail

cheers.gif
HobbEs
This keeps the Jets in the headlines and it takes attention away from the Giants and the fact that they just won a super bowl.

Having two football teams in the same city is almost a foreign concept to me. It makes me wonder where people's allegience would be it there was another game in town. For example, what would the fan base look like if the Stars were absorbed into the league from the USFL? You have a successful young franchise (just like the Jets were) now competing not only on the field but in every aspect of the game. Anyone think the antics of the Joe/Andy/Jeffrey regime would drive away part of this fan base?
Eyrie
I doubt it. Your team is your team, and when you share a city with an arch rival there is no way you can make that swap.

It would though intensify the criticism of our front office as there would be an alternative approach which they would inevitably be compared to unfavourably.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Mar 23 2012, 02:24 PM) *
I doubt it. Your team is your team, and when you share a city with an arch rival there is no way you can make that swap.

It would though intensify the criticism of our front office as there would be an alternative approach which they would inevitably be compared to unfavourably.


Also, the New York Metropolitan area has roughly 4-5 times the amount of people that the greater philadelphia area has, to be conservative. The A's and Phillies lasted well together for awhile, but mostly because the A's were always good, the Phillies always sucked, Phillies were naturally the mroe favorable team, similar to Cubs/Sox.

In fact, many studies show that the most marketable place to have a new baseball team would be.....Brooklyn! I know we're discussing football, but yeah just another random observation, typically you will find Mets fans are also Jets fans, and Yankees fans are also Giants fans. Don't know why, but I've noticed that through the years.
eaglesflow
Weird how we were supposedly linked to Manning, glad he went to the broncos we need to stick with Vick!
Rick
QUOTE (eaglesflow @ Mar 24 2012, 07:30 PM) *
we need to stick with Vick!

Why? The guy has NEVER been a winner. He NEVER has played a full season.

I mean, I guess he's better than our backup(s) but he's not a guy who is going to take the team to a SB and win it.

Not saying we should have picked up Manning but Vick is not the answer.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Rick @ Mar 25 2012, 08:02 AM) *
Why? The guy has NEVER been a winner. He NEVER has played a full season.

I mean, I guess he's better than our backup(s) but he's not a guy who is going to take the team to a SB and win it.

Not saying we should have picked up Manning but Vick is not the answer.


Can you define "never been a winner"? I really dislike blanket statements like that or the famous "Reid will never win a SB" ( a personal favorite for stupidity) What do you term a winner? I seem to recall the Eagles playing an Atlanta team for the NFC championship and if I recall, their QB was a certain Michael Vick. He certainly won in Atlanta with limited offensive resources. You may not like the guy but you can't rewrite history on emotion.

Of course you may mean he hasn't won a SB, if that is the case than that club is very short on members so that discussion would be silly. Any cogent decision on Manning would need the medical details on his chances for recurrence.

By the way, the "not a winner" guy? 53-37 as a QB......2-3 as a starter in the playoffs.......
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 25 2012, 12:24 PM) *
the famous "Reid will never win a SB" ( a personal favorite for stupidity)


I've been saying that for years. It's pretty obvious to anyone who knows that in the postseason you have to beat 2-3 elite teams in a row, and have to be able to adjust in-game, perhaps many times a game. The whole clock BS doesn't help either. But wake me up if he wins one, I'd be happy to eat my own words.
Eyrie
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 25 2012, 04:24 PM) *
the famous "Reid will never win a SB" ( a personal favorite for stupidity)

It's the offseason, so I'll bite biggrin.gif

Are you saying that Reid's coaching makes it more likely that we will win a SuperBowl, or would you concede that he needs to do a better job there?
D Rock
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Mar 25 2012, 07:45 PM) *
It's the offseason, so I'll bite biggrin.gif

Are you saying that Reid's coaching makes it more likely that we will win a SuperBowl, or would you concede that he needs to do a better job there?

Not to speak for RF, but he's saying neither. (as I read it)

He's pointing to the inherent stupidity found in blanket statements such as "reid will NEVER win a SB."

The certainty with which the dim set around here offer that dribble defies logic and falls firmly in the "stupid statement" category. It's not made less a logical fallacy by it's volume of use. I can keep saying the sky is green over and over again. But it will not get more true as a result of that effort.
Reality Fan
QUOTE (D Rock @ Mar 25 2012, 02:50 PM) *
Not to speak for RF, but he's saying neither. (as I read it)

He's pointing to the inherent stupidity found in blanket statements such as "reid will NEVER win a SB."

The certainty with which the dim set around here offer that dribble defies logic and falls firmly in the "stupid statement" category. It's not made less a logical fallacy by it's volume of use. I can keep saying the sky is green over and over again. But it will not get more true as a result of that effort.


Thank you, that is exactly what I meant.
Phits
o·pin·ion/əˈpinyən/ [Noun]
1: A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
2: The beliefs or views of a large number or majority of people about a particular thing.


Reid will never win a SB. A dozen plus years of his BS has helped swing my opinion from one side of the fence to the other. I don't believe his coaching style and approach to the game is conducive to a winning a championship. Having such an opinion is no more silly/stupid than those that believe we still have a shot at an NFL title with Reid at the helm.

The fact that you may/may not agree with said opinion does not make it right/wrong.


QUOTE (D Rock @ Mar 25 2012, 02:50 PM) *
Not to speak for RF, but he's saying neither. (as I read it)

He's pointing to the inherent stupidity found in blanket statements such as "reid will NEVER win a SB."

The certainty with which the dim set around here offer that dribble defies logic and falls firmly in the "stupid statement" category. It's not made less a logical fallacy by it's volume of use. I can keep saying the sky is green over and over again. But it will not get more true as a result of that effort.
D Rock
I'm well aware of the definition of "opinion."

That doesn't change the laws of logic. And sweeping generalizations including the use of the word "never" go against the law of logic via petitio principi. More often than not, these statements are delivered here wrapped in an arguentum ad homimen and personal insults to all that don't agree with the fallacy ridden generalization.

To be clear . . . I'm not saying your point of view is incorrect. I'm merely saying in this discussion, that none can logically have any certainty that "never" applies. Did he miss his first "best chance" to this point? Yes. But blame for the failures of the first half of the last decade is plentiful and applicable to any number of factors, players, coaches, and philosophies.

Personally, I think he's set the team up to once have his next "best chance." Obviously, the proof will be in the pudding, as they say.

I just don't see the point in crying about his continued presence when it's March in what looks to be a pretty solid off season thus far, and we all know he's here until at least January of next year.

It's an exercise in futility and logical silliness.

THAT is MY opinion.

cheers.gif
Rick
QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Mar 25 2012, 12:24 PM) *
Can you define "never been a winner"? I really dislike blanket statements like that or the famous "Reid will never win a SB" ( a personal favorite for stupidity) What do you term a winner? I seem to recall the Eagles playing an Atlanta team for the NFC championship and if I recall, their QB was a certain Michael Vick. He certainly won in Atlanta with limited offensive resources. You may not like the guy but you can't rewrite history on emotion.

Of course you may mean he hasn't won a SB, if that is the case than that club is very short on members so that discussion would be silly. Any cogent decision on Manning would need the medical details on his chances for recurrence.

By the way, the "not a winner" guy? 53-37 as a QB......2-3 as a starter in the playoffs.......

I stand by what I said. He is not a winner. He can win ALL of his regular season games but, if he's not winning in the playoffs, he's not considered a winner. 2-3 is hardly a stellar record in the playoffs.

He fades as the season goes on just about every year. He tends to miss games during the year due to injury. As he gets older, he's losing his speed--his only truly scary weapon. So why should I want the guy to be our starter? He also had that little incident with dog fighting, torturing and killing dogs, etc.

Again, I realize, given the current QB situation with the Eagles, there isn't much of a choice but I've never been a Vick fan (before or after the dog stuff).
Reality Fan
QUOTE (Rick @ Mar 25 2012, 07:48 PM) *
I stand by what I said. He is not a winner. He can win ALL of his regular season games but, if he's not winning in the playoffs, he's not considered a winner. 2-3 is hardly a stellar record in the playoffs.

He fades as the season goes on just about every year. He tends to miss games during the year due to injury. As he gets older, he's losing his speed--his only truly scary weapon. So why should I want the guy to be our starter? He also had that little incident with dog fighting, torturing and killing dogs, etc.

Again, I realize, given the current QB situation with the Eagles, there isn't much of a choice but I've never been a Vick fan (before or after the dog stuff).


Well, he has shown his speed is not dropping to date but of course, age will eventually mitigate that but if you think he doesn't have a cannon for an arm you are delusional. He is over a 60% passer with the Eagles, he finally got a real coach for QBs. I agree that his durability is an issue but that comes from his intense desire to compete. Take note of his tackle of Polamalu after and interception, a violent collision that he had no business engaging in.

If he avoids the bad spots he puts himself in trying to make something out of nothing he should be fine.....no one said his playoff record was stellar but he has won in the playoffs, a simple reality.(not to mention with a terrible Falcons team with no WRs.)

The funny part is I have never been a Vick fan but I can't ignore the facts, he has a gun for an arm and throws a great ball, he just needs better pocket presence to avoid getting killed.
D Rock
QUOTE (Rick @ Mar 26 2012, 12:48 AM) *
I stand by what I said. He is not a winner. He can win ALL of his regular season games but, if he's not winning in the playoffs, he's not considered a winner. 2-3 is hardly a stellar record in the playoffs.

He fades as the season goes on just about every year. He tends to miss games during the year due to injury. As he gets older, he's losing his speed--his only truly scary weapon. So why should I want the guy to be our starter? He also had that little incident with dog fighting, torturing and killing dogs, etc.

Again, I realize, given the current QB situation with the Eagles, there isn't much of a choice but I've never been a Vick fan (before or after the dog stuff).

I've gotta agree with this.

I've pointed out numerous times that he has a career long penchant for playing great in September and October, but falling apart in November / December. It happened every year in Atlanta, and so far . . . every year in Philly (save last where he wasn't any good in September / October either.

It'll be interesting to say the least to see what his first off season as a starter under Andy will bring.
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