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TGryn
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/...lcons-for-vick/
QUOTE
The Washington Redskins like Robert Griffin III so much that they gave up far more for the right to draft him than teams have typically had to trade away to secure franchise quarterbacks in the NFL draft. Washington will send St. Louis its first- and second-round picks this year and first-round picks for 2013 and 2014, all to get the second overall pick this year from the Rams. Thatís a huge haul for the Rams and a huge sign that the Redskins think very, very highly of Griffin.

Consider this: The Redskins just agreed to give up far more for Griffin than the Giants gave up to acquire first overall pick Eli Manning in 2004, or the Falcons traded to move up to take Michael Vick first overall in 2001. In 2004 the price for Manning was two first-round picks, a third-round pick and a fifth-round pick. In 2001, the price for Vick was one first-round pick, one second-round pick, one third-round pick and Tim Dwight. Although a team trading away three first-round picks is not unprecedented, it is extremely rare: It hasnít happened since the famous Cowboys-Vikings Herschel Walker trade in 1989.


I'm happy with the Redskins making this trade. RGIII is very exciting, but its a tremendous risk to concentrate that much of a team's future into one player, with how prevalent injuries are in the NFL these days (not to mention the condition of Washington's OL - according to nfl.com they gave up 41 sacks last year, tied for 11th worst). I'm sure Redskins fans are telling themselves "well, he's so mobile he can just run away from the pressure" - we saw how well that worked with Vick. The extra hits do start taking their toll over the course of a season.

Certainly can't argue that this isn't a position of need for them, though.



_KAMELOT_
Big bet. Shanahan went all-in...if this doesn't work out for the 'Skins, they're doomed in the long term. The Rams played their hand smart and came out as winners.
make_it_rain

At first I was like "Fuck, RG3 coming to NFC East"

Then, I realized that the Redskins effectively mortgaged their entire franchise to get this guy, and he hasn't taken a single NFL snap yet.

It could turn out to be a brilliant move if Griffin pans out, but there are just soooo many variables, and man they paid big time to move up what, like five picks in the draft? GL with that Snyder.

Cue the "Costanza face of contempt"......

Dreagon
RGIII has the potential to be a great QB. His potential would be even better if they could surround him with talent...which just got harder.

Anyways, the Rams will be laughing all the way to the next three drafts. They just took Washington to the cleaners, however this works out. And they may be able to build a good team around Bradford now.

On the other hand, the Vikings can finally live down the Herschel Walker deal.

PS: Everytime I start to get depressed about Jerry Jones owning my football team, I can always look towards Washington DC and feel better. Thank you, Dan Snyder. Thank you so very much.
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (_KAMELOT_ @ Mar 10 2012, 12:26 PM) *
if this doesn't work out for the 'Skins, they're doomed in the long term


They've been doomed for over a decade for the long-term. At least RGIII will sell merchandise and keep butts in the seats.
koolaidluke
<i>PS: Everytime I start to get depressed about Jerry Jones owning my football team, I can always look towards Washington DC and feel better. Thank you, Dan Snyder. Thank you so very much.</i>

Snyder sucks, but Jerry is still worse. Plus Jerry is just a fucking dick. I would kick the shit out of his crusty plastic surgeried ass if I ever met him. He blows.


This was a dumb trade from the Redskins perspective but it does open up a hell of a lot of cap space and might be getting them a franchise QB for the next 15 seasons. If it does, then I'd say the trade is worth it in the long run, no matter how painful it is initially.

The Giants are 2 Superbowls richer because of the 1st they traded a way so we'll see how it turns out.

The cap space saved allows the skins to make a big FA splash immediately, which they need to get the talent to save Shanahan's job. It does kinda make sense in a twisted sort of way. The only owner who would ever do it would be Snyder and maybe it is crazy enough to work.
TGryn
FWIW, under Gil Brandt's old draft pick trade value chart, the relative value of the trade was:
Rams: 2600 points (#2 overall)
Redskins: 1600 points (#6 overall) + 510 points (#39 overall) + 430 points (2013 1st rounder, worth = mid-2nd (#47) in current draft under formula that a future pick is worth 1 round less than a current pick) + 195 points (2014 1st rounder, worth = mid-3rd (#79) in current draft) = 2735 points

So its really not that lopsided a trade according to the system. It all depends on where those 2013 and 2014 1st round picks come down. If the Redskins are a playoff team and those picks are low 1sts, they actually may have gotten better value than the Rams. If those are top-10 picks, this was a bad trade in terms of what they gave up.
SLOiggles
QUOTE (TGryn @ Mar 10 2012, 02:32 PM) *
FWIW, under Gil Brandt's old draft pick trade value chart, the relative value of the trade was:
Rams: 2600 points (#2 overall)
Redskins: 1600 points (#6 overall) + 510 points (#39 overall) + 430 points (2013 1st rounder, worth = mid-2nd (#47) in current draft under formula that a future pick is worth 1 round less than a current pick) + 195 points (2014 1st rounder, worth = mid-3rd (#79) in current draft) = 2735 points

So its really not that lopsided a trade according to the system. It all depends on where those 2013 and 2014 1st round picks come down. If the Redskins are a playoff team and those picks are low 1sts, they actually may have gotten better value than the Rams. If those are top-10 picks, this was a bad trade in terms of what they gave up.



I feel like due to the lower amount of guaranteed money available to rookies, draft picks, particularly first rounders are EXTREMELY more valuable than previous years. The Rams have two first round picks the next two years and neither one of those picks will be a significant cap hit.

As for the trade itself, I'm not particularly impressed with the Redskins getting this guy. As some have alluded to, Vick didn't have protection and has been in the league for years. He's still an elite athlete. We all saw what happened. If the Skins don't get some help on the offensive line, they're in trouble. But, there are seven rounds in the NFL draft. It's difficult to judge a trade as soon as it happens...but the initial reaction has to be...hahahahahhahahaha

mcnabbulous
Good trade by the Skins. If they've identified RGIII as a franchise QB, and I believe him to be just that, then you can't give up too much to get him. The Skins landing Griffin was my biggest fear of the offseason and they made it happen.

Meanwhile, the Rams are sitting pretty. I still think Bradford will be great, they are going to get a dynamic player this year, and the Skins will likely continue to struggle immediately, resulting in 2 more years of great draft position.

On a side note: KAL, Snyder is a dick too. Possibly even a bigger one.
Eyrie
QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Mar 11 2012, 05:40 AM) *
the Skins will likely continue to struggle immediately, resulting in 2 more years of great draft position.

That to my mind is one of the two key parts of this deal for us.

The Racially Insensitives have too many holes to be competitive this season. Giving up a second this year and first next is fair value for the Rams' pick, but it hurts their ability to rebuild their team as that could have been three great prospects rather than one that's outstanding. The first in 2014 is too far away to predict, but it will at least make life harder for them.

The other consideration is that we will face RG3 twice a year. I wonder if that will impact on our defensive retooling, and see Cox or Poe taken at #15.

So is the Washington OL any good?

Rick
The Redskins made a stupid trade. Giving up that much for a QB is just stupid. Why do I say this? How many Heisman-winning QBs actually have turned into serviceable QBs in the NFL? I think you might be able to count on one hand the number who have. He has potential...so have a lot of other QBs who've been picked high and who have never done a darn thing in the NFL.

BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (Rick @ Mar 12 2012, 06:13 AM) *
The Redskins made a stupid trade. Giving up that much for a QB is just stupid. Why do I say this? How many Heisman-winning QBs actually have turned into serviceable QBs in the NFL? I think you might be able to count on one hand the number who have. He has potential...so have a lot of other QBs who've been picked high and who have never done a darn thing in the NFL.



receptionist:
"Uh, Rick there is a group of highly drafted QBs out here who would like to have a word with you. they include...

Cam Newton, Sam bradford, Ben Roethlis, Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Matt Ryan, Vince Young, Alex Smith, Eli manning, Carson palmer (in just the past 10yrs)"

Rick:
"tell them to wait dammit! im talking to Jamarcus Russell and i literally cannot see anyone else right now!"
GQSmooth
Also have to consider the fact the Shanahans will be developing RG3. I think RG3 has more potential than Luck, however I don't see the Shanahans as the right duo to achieve that success. Mike Shanahan has never developed a successful QB in the NFL. Elway was Elway before Shanahan got there, he was just smart enough to give Elway a decent running game. The fact he has a son running the offense makes the situation worse as the offense as its designed has not been able to get the best out of the QBs playing in Washington. I would like to see RG3 pull a Manning and state he is not willing to go there.
Eyrie
QUOTE (GQSmooth @ Mar 12 2012, 05:01 PM) *
I would like to see RG3 pull a Manning and state he is not willing to go there.

Can't see it, but can you imagine how funny that would be?

All those picks gone for nothing!
BirdsWinBaby
QUOTE (Eyrie @ Mar 12 2012, 02:53 PM) *
Can't see it, but can you imagine how funny that would be?

All those picks gone for nothing!



well actually...

as i recall when Eli refused to sign, the Chargers laughed their way into a franchise pro bowler QB, a 'roid-boy probowler LB and Probowler kicker

and if RG3's refusal to sign equals the above for the Skinz (or even part of it)? thats not good for the eagles
Flying Dutchman
QUOTE (GQSmooth @ Mar 12 2012, 12:01 PM) *
Also have to consider the fact the Shanahans will be developing RG3. I think RG3 has more potential than Luck, however I don't see the Shanahans as the right duo to achieve that success. Mike Shanahan has never developed a successful QB in the NFL. Elway was Elway before Shanahan got there, he was just smart enough to give Elway a decent running game. The fact he has a son running the offense makes the situation worse as the offense as its designed has not been able to get the best out of the QBs playing in Washington. I would like to see RG3 pull a Manning and state he is not willing to go there.


Maybe the Foreskins now being capped out will actually consider not going through with the trade. IIRC it is not yet OFFICIAL!
Rick
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ Mar 12 2012, 09:47 AM) *
receptionist:
"Uh, Rick there is a group of highly drafted QBs out here who would like to have a word with you. they include...

Cam Newton, Sam bradford, Ben Roethlis, Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Matt Ryan, Vince Young, Alex Smith, Eli manning, Carson palmer (in just the past 10yrs)"

Rick:
"tell them to wait dammit! im talking to Jamarcus Russell and i literally cannot see anyone else right now!"

I'll give you Newton but he's not been around long enough to know for sure.

Sam Bradford? Really? Sorry, can't include him in the, "panning out," list just yet.

Matt Stafford was average (at best) until last season. Let's see how he does in the future.

Mark Sanchez!!?? Really? You are stretching it just a bit on that one.

Matt Ryan has been a serviceable QB for sure.

Vince Young? Again, really???

Alex Smith has been a disappointment until last season. Again, let's see how he does in upcoming seasons before declaring him a success.

Eli Manning has panned out.

Carson Palmer--for the most part--has panned out.

Ok, so maybe my memory isn't as good as it used to be but this is still hardly a shining example of me being wrong. About half of these guys aren't doing a whole lot for their teams. About half of the others left have not done much until last season--they may work out or may not. One season does not make a good (just looking for good, not great) career.

I still say it's a gamble. Maybe not as much of a gamble as I (originally) thought but it is. Too much to give up so much for.
BirdsWinBaby
i was going to list the accomplishments of the players i listed but i think thats not necessary. i think you get my point. those players have accomplished quite a bit in the NFL including pro bowls and playoff games, NFL records, etc... that tells you that they were talented enough coming out of college and it also tells you why picking a taleted QB with a high pick is worth it. its how the NFL works

"panning out" is another discussion entirely which is due to many factors like overall team, coaches, INJURIES, etc...

if you think taking a QB with a high draft pick is a risk you arent willing to take then when would GM Rick prefer to pick one? when your team needs a QB, good luck passing up on a top QB prospect because they dont "pan out" and choosing one in the later rounds instead. for every Tom Brady there is about a thousand other Mike Kafkas that you have never heard of because they washed out of the NFL quickly (often before TC ends). a GM that passes up a Luck or RG3 or Carson Palmer or Eli Manning because he thinks its not worth the risk will only be employed for about 5mins after the draft.

of course its a risk but its a risk many teams in the NFL (who need a QB) HAVE TO take. its a risk that many teams in the NFL would KILL to take. its a risk that many teams in the NFL will trade quite a bit to take.

welcome to the NFL
HOUSEoPAIN
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ Mar 12 2012, 04:04 PM) *
as i recall when Eli refused to sign, the Chargers laughed their way into a franchise pro bowler QB, a 'roid-boy probowler LB and Probowler kicker


Somehow I think the Chargers aren't laughing anymore after having to watch that inbred hayseed now have 2 Lombardi trophies.

I have to imagine what we're discussing is also being discussed between RGIII and his family and agent, etc. He won't want to go to Washington, whether he pulls an Eli or not remains to be seen.
Rick
QUOTE (BirdsWinBaby @ Mar 13 2012, 09:32 AM) *
i was going to list the accomplishments of the players i listed but i think thats not necessary. i think you get my point. those players have accomplished quite a bit in the NFL including pro bowls and playoff games, NFL records, etc... that tells you that they were talented enough coming out of college and it also tells you why picking a taleted QB with a high pick is worth it. its how the NFL works

"panning out" is another discussion entirely which is due to many factors like overall team, coaches, INJURIES, etc...

if you think taking a QB with a high draft pick is a risk you arent willing to take then when would GM Rick prefer to pick one? when your team needs a QB, good luck passing up on a top QB prospect because they dont "pan out" and choosing one in the later rounds instead. for every Tom Brady there is about a thousand other Mike Kafkas that you have never heard of because they washed out of the NFL quickly (often before TC ends). a GM that passes up a Luck or RG3 or Carson Palmer or Eli Manning because he thinks its not worth the risk will only be employed for about 5mins after the draft.

of course its a risk but its a risk many teams in the NFL (who need a QB) HAVE TO take. its a risk that many teams in the NFL would KILL to take. its a risk that many teams in the NFL will trade quite a bit to take.

welcome to the NFL

I'm not saying it's a bad idea to pick them high. I'm saying, historically, it's been a crapshoot (overall) when looking at how they've fared. My point is, giving up THAT much to pick this kid is just a bit much for someone you really don't know whether they'll work out or not.

Apparently, I'm not the only one out there who thinks this way. Read the press. They've all said the Redskins are crazy for giving up that much to get the pick (although maybe for different reasons).
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