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Bocadelphia Eagles John
Why is it that Donovan is above criticism?

Why is it that if any fan vents and rants over that which hurts the performance of the TEAM where DMaC has a pivotal role, it's considered a "hata" thing?

I think Donovan is a TALENTED, and GIFTED and FLAWED quarterback. There is NO DOUBT he can rack up the stats and the wins. And he can blow it too.

So why is that when a fan identifies the weaknesses and wants to comment about it, it's not safe territory in which to venture?

Is it a race thing? If DMaC where white and took the same heat, would it be OK then?

I know a little bit about football. I think I have an instinct about the game, and when I played it as a young kid I was able to make big plays with no thought about it. It just came naturally. So I think my eyes can spot flaws in a player, and the QB is the easiest to observe because of his presence and role in every single play. And it is uniformally accepted that the QB position is the single most important one on the squad.

So the microscope is on any QB. And ours has worked miracles, and been a bum once in a while. So what's wrong with calling him out where he's weak? After all, by calling it out, it's a call for improvement.
For the benefit of the team. So when a fan is wanting to see an improvement for the team, why is that considered a "hata" thing?

So when I see where Donovan is off the mark, and write about it, how come it can't just be accepted as a fan's observations, but has to be boxed and packaged as being a ...... hata ?

Why the kid gloves? What are we afraid of?
Pila
I don't think McNabb is above criticism, but there is no other athlete that I can remember in my entire life of following sports that has been as unfairly criticized as McNabb. It boggles the mind, honestly.

Having said that - knowing you the way I think I do - I know your criticism is free of hidden, personal agenda. From the rest - and I say this with as much certainty as one can without having someone admit it - it's poorly viled as anything but free of agenda. Unfortunate.

But it's that kind of criticism that makes mes knee-jerk to his defense, just so youse know.
Bocadelphia Eagles John
QUOTE(Pila @ Jan 16 2007, 03:34 PM) [snapback]102885[/snapback]

But it's that kind of criticism that makes mes knee-jerk to his defense, just so youse know.


I happen to think that somebody like a Bill Parcells would not hesitate in giving Donovan heat when it's deserved. Know what I mean? And from Bill it would be motivated by a desire to push the guy to be even BETTER than he's been.

That's how I see it with Donovan. There are fair observations to make about him and to try and seek the improvements. To get him to that NEXT level.

Oh well. I hate off-season.

Happy new year (belatedly) to ya my man.

Pila
You, too, Salsa King. Happy New Year.

Parcells' motivational rantings don't impress me anymore. Didn't seem to help his team any. On the other hand, McNabb gets better every year on self motivation.

Nabby is the real deal, he deserves slack.
AustinFan
Most of the critcism of McNabb comes down to "why does he make mistakes, why isn't he perfect."

I just watched Brady totally screw up a key playoff game, then come back to be the hero - but he was given the opportunity to be the hero by some really bad plays by the Chargers. Manning had a horrible game against the Ravens, but his defense saved him.

The only playoff game McNabb lost where his defense stood up was Carolina, and even then they gave up a cheap TD, and that game was completely the fault of his supporting cast: Tra, Bobbie Williams, Trash, Pinky and Duce. People forget the Buc game was 10-10 into the 3rd Q before the defense collapsed, the defense allowed the Patriots to march up and down the field, allowed Faulk to run through them in the 2001 NFCCG, and so on. McNabb is asked to win the big games, pretty much on his own. Notice in 2004 when the defense came up big in the playoffs, McNabb easily controlled the game.

He's made his share of errors, but nothing to justify the kind of criticism he gets in Philly. Like Elway, he looks a lot better when the players around him look better.
BgBry44
QUOTE(AustinFan @ Jan 16 2007, 02:29 PM) [snapback]102902[/snapback]

Most of the critcism of McNabb comes down to "why does he make mistakes, why isn't he perfect."

I just watched Brady totally screw up a key playoff game, then come back to be the hero - but he was given the opportunity to be the hero by some really bad plays by the Chargers. Manning had a horrible game against the Ravens, but his defense saved him.

The only playoff game McNabb lost where his defense stood up was Carolina, and even then they gave up a cheap TD, and that game was completely the fault of his supporting cast: Tra, Bobbie Williams, Trash, Pinky and Duce. People forget the Buc game was 10-10 into the 3rd Q before the defense collapsed, the defense allowed the Patriots to march up and down the field, allowed Faulk to run through them in the 2001 NFCCG, and so on. McNabb is asked to win the big games, pretty much on his own. Notice in 2004 when the defense came up big in the playoffs, McNabb easily controlled the game.

He's made his share of errors, but nothing to justify the kind of criticism he gets in Philly. Like Elway, he looks a lot better when the players around him look better.


I think you the nail on the head with this one.
Dreagon
Well, the QB is probably the most divisive player on any team.......unless of course he really sucks and unites the entire fanbase against him.

McNabb is a bit of a mystery. He has all the physical tools to be a premier qb. He has all the knowledge to be a premier qb. He has all the technique and instincts to be a premier qb. I think part of it is that when fans look at all that McNabb brings to the table, the expect the best. As of yet he just hasn't quite delivered what fans feel he is either capable of doing or they feel they were promised he is capable of doing. Then there is his easy going nature which for some reason some fans have a problem with. Combine that with a couple unfortunate incidents with leaving his chunky soup on the field, and a perception that he has choked in key games and some fans apparently feel they have been sold short. Other fans see the downsides as more isolated incidents that do not amount to the flawed player that McNabbs critics accuse him of being. They obviously see him as logically the best shot of taking the Eagles all the way and want to defend him from what they percieve as unfair criticism.

But again, I think in the end McNabbs biggest enemy is going to be expectations. He is on a team that has been a legitimate superbowl contender and the fans tend to get ugly when their expectations are let down.
mcnabbulous
I think McNabb's faults are pretty easy to identify. He is not extremeley accurate...and he will do almost anything to avoid a mistake (i.e. holding the ball too long and taking sacks) His redzone efficiency speaks for itself. As does his TD to INT ratio.

If McNabb had the accuracy of Steve Young, with his other set of intangibles (size, throwing power, mobility) he would be the greatest QB of all time. I've had this conversation with my best friend who is...gulp a Redskins fan and he agrees.

Every QB is flawed. It's hard to criticize Brady because of his success, but his team and fate have bailed him out many times (this weekend for instance...come on a 4th down INT that turns into a First down)Manning can't move, overanalyzes, and looks like a horse.

I honestly believe McNabb will lead us to the promised land one day...it took Elway until he was like 37. Please, don't blame him for the Carolina loss either. I'll take it to my grave that had it not been for that cheap shot, we would have won that game. We were driving down the field on them like clockwork before that happened.

Boca, as you've stated you are a little older than many of us on this board, thus you have suffered more than most...but don't forget, it to Cowher years of consistent success before he ever held up the Lombardi. Andy and Co. have earned our patience. 11 wins a year is pretty damn good. Just think...we could be the Raiders.
Phits
5 takes his fair share of criticism, but he is exceedingly under scrutiny. When he is successful we say "That's what he should be doing" because that's what we expect. When he falters, most fans don't "obectively" analyze his error. Most fans will jump straight into calling him a bum and suggest he his overrated.

Curiously, who ever said McNabb was off limits??
Bocadelphia Eagles John
QUOTE(Phits @ Jan 16 2007, 07:28 PM) [snapback]102949[/snapback]

Curiously, who ever said McNabb was off limits??


I only used that idea because it is my impression that there is a contingent firmly rooted in the extreme camps the either DMaC is the best thing ever, or over-rated. With little wiggle room in between. This was brought on by the recent article talking about the fair treatment of him by the fans.

So it just got me wondering.

Someone mentioned expectations. And that is always a major cause of disappointment when they are not met.

I think I expect DMaC to be perfect all the time. But I thought that of Cunningham too. And I had less to criticize in Randall back then. And when Jim McMahon ran a few games for us I had notning to criticize with him too. But in those days my focus was on the D and how that unit was our ticket. So I got great excitement from watching 12 and a complete BUZZ with guys like Reggie, Waters, Joyner and others.

For some reason with DMaC my focus has been completely on him. and my expectations and hence my disappointments have run through him.

Maybe that's because for a long while he's had such a shitty supporting cast on the O. And the D was a roller coaster. And except for when we had Brian Mitchell, ST has been ok, but not exciting or game breaking (excepting Akers, who is money).

So....there is something in my expectation I think, which prejudices my opinions and criticisms of the man.

I'm not sure. It's hard to know for sure what my agenda is.

But I still stand by my criticisms. I think they're a fair assessment. What might be out of line is the degree of my emotion about them though.
Dreagon
QUOTE(Bocadelphia Eagles John @ Jan 16 2007, 05:55 PM) [snapback]102954[/snapback]



So....there is something in my expectation I think, which prejudices my opinions and criticisms of the man.

I'm not sure. It's hard to know for sure what my agenda is.

But I still stand by my criticisms. I think they're a fair assessment. What might be out of line is the degree of my emotion about them though.


Well, here is a way to fairly assess one possible area of criticism. Watch next year to see if he gets hurt again. He has missed an awful lot of time and has spent an awful lot of other time hampered by injuries. Now so far that could be attibuted to bad luck, but if he ends up getting hurt again next year it might be time to consider him having a problem with fragility.
Flying Dutchman
QUOTE(Dreagon @ Jan 16 2007, 10:08 PM) [snapback]103002[/snapback]

Well, here is a way to fairly assess one possible area of criticism. Watch next year to see if he gets hurt again. He has missed an awful lot of time and has spent an awful lot of other time hampered by injuries. Now so far that could be attibuted to bad luck, but if he ends up getting hurt again next year it might be time to consider him having a problem with fragility.


It might also have something to do with questionable hits by Panther and Falcon players that the refs conveniently overlooked.
nephillymike
Here's my hope for McNabb in 2007:

1. His coach gives him a similar balanced play calling to make him more effective.
2. He is receptive to the balanced offense.
3. He learns from some things Garcia did and some of the comments his teamates made in praise of Garcia:
a. show a sense of urgency in the huddle
b. don't be everyone's friend. A leader will call people out when needed. Put that in his skill set.

4. Embrace having Garcia back as a number two QB as he is the best option should five get hurt
5. Tell Mom to nix the blog. It doesn't help matters any.


If he does this and the coaches sign Stallworth, then McNabb will have an MYP type year next year, and if he incorporates 3a and 3b into his game, he'll end up in Canton.

Here's hoping it happens.
vermeilman
QUOTE(nephillymike @ Jan 16 2007, 10:43 PM) [snapback]103007[/snapback]

Here's my hope for McNabb in 2007:

1. His coach gives him a similar balanced play calling to make him more effective.
2. He is receptive to the balanced offense.
3. He learns from some things Garcia did and some of the comments his teamates made in praise of Garcia:
a. show a sense of urgency in the huddle
b. don't be everyone's friend. A leader will call people out when needed. Put that in his skill set.

4. Embrace having Garcia back as a number two QB as he is the best option should five get hurt
5. Tell Mom to nix the blog. It doesn't help matters any.
If he does this and the coaches sign Stallworth, then McNabb will have an MYP type year next year, and if he incorporates 3a and 3b into his game, he'll end up in Canton.

Here's hoping it happens.

Its entirely possible you will get none of that. If you get more than two of your five I will be shocked.
AustinFan

1. His coach gives him a similar balanced play calling to make him more effective.

I think this is a given, they did this in 2003 and that was his best stretch, Reid didn't put this offensive line together to pass block, why trade up for Andrews or take Herremans?

2. He is receptive to the balanced offense.

See 2003, he ran it like a maestro, with instruments like Duce, Thrash, Pinky, Mitchell. Imagine what he could do with this group.

3. He learns from some things Garcia did and some of the comments his teamates made in praise of Garcia:
a. show a sense of urgency in the huddle
b. don't be everyone's friend. A leader will call people out when needed. Put that in his skill set.

You can't pretend to be what you're not, that'll just grate on your teammates. Though he needs to become a meaner SOB, teammates stabbed him in the back, he is under no obligation to cover their ass. And young players need to be put in their place when they don't do their job. But he's never going to be a fire breather.

4. Embrace having Garcia back as a number two QB as he is the best option should five get hurt

I don't think McNabb has any problem with Garcia, just the stupid fans who actually think Garcia is a viable option. Even Garcia knows better.

5. Tell Mom to nix the blog. It doesn't help matters any.

Who cares? Except a few fans and Eckel.

If he does this and the coaches sign Stallworth, then McNabb will have an MYP type year next year, and if he incorporates 3a and 3b into his game, he'll end up in Canton.

Stallworth doesn't matter, Brown, Baskett, Avant, Lewis and Bloom would be the best group of WRs he ever had (TO was a two edged sword, he made plays but distorted the offense and messed with McNabb's head).


Bocadelphia Eagles John
QUOTE(Flying Dutchman @ Jan 16 2007, 11:27 PM) [snapback]103004[/snapback]

It might also have something to do with questionable hits by Panther and Falcon players that the refs conveniently overlooked.


Of all the areas where I might look to evaluate fair critique of DMaC, fragility would prbably be the last. I'm not at all sure how you could prepare to avoid being injury prone. Too many variables and freaky stuff involved.
koolaidluke
QUOTE(Bocadelphia Eagles John @ Jan 16 2007, 02:15 PM) [snapback]102881[/snapback]

Is it a race thing? If DMaC where white and took the same heat, would it be OK then?



No. The rage which Dmac loyalist respond with when somebody criticize his play goes WAY beyond any lip service political correctness. People just love Donovan. I don't, but most people do.
Reality Fan
I do not consider myself a Mcnabb defender, I look at things differently than some.

I don't know the guy, don't know his friends and don't care what he does at night.

I am not dumb enough to know what he is thinking at any given moment, regardless of the look on his face.

I do not care what his Mom, Dad, brother, sister, wife etc... have to say. That is silliness left for gossip rags and magpies.

It was said earlier and quite correctly, Mcnabb is more scrutinized than virtually any athlete I can remember here, including and very much like Schmidt.

He his faults continually pointed out and compared to other QBs who have not have had to endure the endless string of crap at wr that Mcnabb has had. So many people yelled about having a top notch WR and Mcnabb played great with him(by the way, for all those "wretching" critics, what happened 2 plays later?) yet, many sided with T.O. in blaming Mcnabb for the situation and how he "handled" it and returned to ridiculous arguments about his ability when T.O. was gone. What was the difference with T.O. and without? Look at Garcia in SF and then in his last 2 stops. Mcnabb won with out a stud WR, Garcia did not.

My worry about Mcnabb is his durability, THAT is a real issue.

His short range touch, THAT is an issue.

If he is lobbying for a pass heavy offense, THAT is an issue.



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