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- Zero   Disappointing ending   Sep 17 2017, 03:21 PM
- - Joegrane   True, it was amazing that they did not get torched...   Sep 17 2017, 06:24 PM
- - Rick   I didn't expect them to win yesterday. I was j...   Sep 18 2017, 05:52 AM
- - Pila   They were very much in this game. This was against...   Sep 18 2017, 12:27 PM
|- - The Franchise   QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 18 2017, 01:27 PM) The ...   Sep 18 2017, 01:55 PM
||- - Pila   QUOTE (The Franchise @ Sep 18 2017, 06:55...   Sep 18 2017, 05:11 PM
||- - The Franchise   QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 18 2017, 06:11 PM) Now,...   Sep 18 2017, 05:17 PM
|- - nephillymike   QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 18 2017, 12:27 PM) They...   Sep 18 2017, 06:54 PM
- - Pila   Yeah, the final numbers were way off. But during ...   Sep 18 2017, 09:13 PM
|- - mcnabbulous   QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 18 2017, 09:13 PM) Yeah...   Sep 18 2017, 09:42 PM
||- - The Franchise   QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 18 2017, 09:42 P...   Sep 18 2017, 09:47 PM
|- - Reality Fan   QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 18 2017, 10:13 PM) Yeah...   Sep 18 2017, 11:07 PM
|- - Pila   QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 19 2017, 04:07 A...   Sep 19 2017, 07:29 AM
|- - mcnabbulous   QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 19 2017, 07:29 AM) Yeah...   Sep 19 2017, 07:44 AM
||- - Reality Fan   QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 19 2017, 08:44 A...   Sep 19 2017, 09:04 AM
||- - mcnabbulous   QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 19 2017, 09:04 A...   Sep 19 2017, 09:17 AM
||- - Reality Fan   QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 19 2017, 10:17 A...   Sep 19 2017, 04:02 PM
|- - Reality Fan   QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 19 2017, 08:29 AM) Yeah...   Sep 19 2017, 09:00 AM
|- - Pila   QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 19 2017, 02:00 P...   Sep 19 2017, 09:09 AM
||- - nephillymike   QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 19 2017, 09:09 AM) What...   Sep 19 2017, 07:30 PM
|- - Pila   QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 19 2017, 03:00 P...   Sep 19 2017, 10:28 AM
|- - Reality Fan   QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 19 2017, 11:28 AM) This...   Sep 19 2017, 04:07 PM
||- - Pila   QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 19 2017, 10:07 P...   Sep 19 2017, 04:21 PM
|- - nephillymike   QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 19 2017, 10:28 AM) This...   Sep 19 2017, 07:37 PM
|- - Pila   QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 20 2017, 12:37 ...   Sep 20 2017, 12:45 PM
|- - nephillymike   QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 20 2017, 12:45 PM) I...   Sep 20 2017, 06:57 PM
|- - Pila   QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 20 2017, 11:57 ...   Sep 20 2017, 08:52 PM
- - Joegrane   How many of those poor long balls were thrown outs...   Sep 19 2017, 01:00 PM
- - mcnabbulous   You have pretty lofty expectations of QB accuracy ...   Sep 19 2017, 04:15 PM
|- - Reality Fan   QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 19 2017, 05:15 P...   Sep 19 2017, 11:34 PM
|- - mcnabbulous   QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 19 2017, 11:34 P...   Sep 20 2017, 12:59 PM
|- - Joegrane   I agree, CW is more accurate when throwing to inte...   Sep 20 2017, 05:47 PM
||- - The Franchise   QUOTE (Joegrane @ Sep 20 2017, 05:47 PM) ...   Sep 20 2017, 06:54 PM
||- - nephillymike   QUOTE (The Franchise @ Sep 20 2017, 06:54...   Sep 20 2017, 06:57 PM
|- - Reality Fan   QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 20 2017, 01:59 P...   Sep 21 2017, 12:25 AM
- - mcnabbulous   It's also a shame we have to refer to ages 24-...   Sep 20 2017, 07:59 PM
|- - The Franchise   QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 20 2017, 07:59 P...   Sep 20 2017, 08:05 PM
|- - mcnabbulous   QUOTE (The Franchise @ Sep 20 2017, 08:05...   Sep 20 2017, 08:14 PM
|- - The Franchise   QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 20 2017, 08:14 P...   Sep 20 2017, 10:12 PM
|- - mcnabbulous   QUOTE (The Franchise @ Sep 20 2017, 10:12...   Sep 20 2017, 10:38 PM
|- - Joegrane   It is not surprising that McNabb's career decl...   Sep 20 2017, 10:43 PM
|- - Reality Fan   QUOTE (Joegrane @ Sep 20 2017, 11:43 PM) ...   Sep 21 2017, 12:28 AM
|- - mcnabbulous   QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 21 2017, 12:28 A...   Sep 21 2017, 10:14 AM
- - mcnabbulous   FWIW, I think the absolute best version of McNabb ...   Sep 20 2017, 08:52 PM
> Disappointing ending
Zero
post Sep 17 2017, 03:21 PM
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The defense played outstanding for until the 4th quarter. The offense played well until the fourth quarter. The Chief's stepped it up and the Eagles didn't. That said, this team will grow and looks really promising. Even losing two DBs, the team looked really good for most of the game.
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Joegrane
post Sep 17 2017, 06:24 PM
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True, it was amazing that they did not get torched after loosing two more DBs.

In order to win at KC they needed to win the TO differential, and maybe a Pick 6 or other big momentum-swinging, crowd-silincing one.

I was surprised that the rookie CB R Douglas was not targeted more. Maybe the Eagles provided double coverage on his side freeing up TE Kelce. Douglas doesn't have speed but the guy can tackle. He also is a ball hawk, so dangerous in a double coverage situation.

Interesting game plan for the running game. Sproles did not have many running lanes, he mostly made something out of nothing.

I saw Clement in the game at one point. I suppose they are gradually getting him some game action. They may also be sending a message to a certain 250lb RB.

N Agholor showed up in the box score in a big way for the second straight game. I did not notice anything ugly from him. That was a nice TD throw by CW

M Hollins got more PT than I expected. I suppose when you throw 40 times your WRs are going to be gassed, especially considering the amount of time they were running around per play. The kid does not seem to be overwhelmed--in contrast to a certain 1st round pick from a few years ago : ( Hollins seems to know what he is doing and he catches the ball. How much better is Jordan Matthews?

My impression is that Wisniewski played better at OG last year than Seumalo is playing at the moment. I bet they are rushing him along in order to get him exposure to J Kelce's line calls. I still think Seumalo is the future C.

So often games come down to a few plays:

Again a ball tipped at the line turned into a big play for the opponent.

In the 4th Qt V Curry rushed the QB in an undisciplined way and whiffed. That turned into a 1st down then a TD a few plays later for KC. If Curry gets the sack, it turns into a long FG attempt and momentum for the Eagles.

Add those points to the missed FG and the Eagles are in a really competitive game at the end.

Do you remember how often the Eagles used to play poorly against AFC teams when Andy was here? It seemed he never showed anything special in those games. I wonder if we were seeing some of that in the first three quarters.

This performance today without J Peters, R Darby, R McCloud and J Watkins reaffirms to me that this team is above average, a playoff contender.


QUOTE (Zero @ Sep 17 2017, 03:21 PM) *
The defense played outstanding for until the 4th quarter. The offense played well until the fourth quarter. The Chief's stepped it up and the Eagles didn't. That said, this team will grow and looks really promising. Even losing two DBs, the team looked really good for most of the game.
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Rick
post Sep 18 2017, 05:52 AM
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I didn't expect them to win yesterday. I was just hoping to see improvement. I saw improvement on the defense (overall) and especially considering all of the injuries already.

Offense didn't look horrible but they have to come away with points (obviously). Kicker was a known potential problem after Sturgis went down. I like what I'm seeing from Wentz overall but still a few things to work out. With the improvement I've seen from last year, I have no doubt he'll eventually work them out.

Receivers are much improved (obviously) and that's been a great thing to watch.

Offensive line seems to be doing a better job in pass protection but they are HORRIBLY at run blocking. Hard to have guys gain yards when they're hit 2 yards deep.

I'm not expecting too much this season but I believe they can win the NFC East after seeing the Skins, Giants and Cowboys. That is, if they can stay healthy and go through the general progression a team should go through (improvement).

We're still a couple of players away.

Other than that stupid swing pass/screen (which needs to be trashed from the playbook), Pedersen didn't do anything horrible yesterday.
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Pila
post Sep 18 2017, 12:27 PM
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They were very much in this game. This was against a really good team with extra rest, in their house, with a reputation of it being difficult venue for visiting teams.

I was actually impressed, thought the team was well prepared, Pedersen called a good game, and I thought Wentz was quasi-phenomenal. The last time I felt this impressed in a loss was in 2002 championship game vs Rams.


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The Franchise
post Sep 18 2017, 01:55 PM
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QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 18 2017, 01:27 PM) *
The last time I felt this impressed in a loss was in 2002 championship game vs Rams.


Within that loss and the ensuing off-season we transformed into the best team in the NFC. I wouldn't put yesterday's loss on that level, but I get what you're saying.


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Pila
post Sep 18 2017, 05:11 PM
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QUOTE (The Franchise @ Sep 18 2017, 06:55 PM) *
Within that loss and the ensuing off-season we transformed into the best team in the NFC. I wouldn't put yesterday's loss on that level, but I get what you're saying.

No, the situation is only similar in the context that in a loss the team exhibited strong signs of a team finding themselves, but clearly ascending into a contender. To me, I mean. So, considering, I did not fall in to the usual disappointment or despair that usually follows with a loss.

Now, they if they let the vagiants come into Philly next week and steal a win from us, I'll return to my usual cynical, hating humanity disposition.


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The Franchise
post Sep 18 2017, 05:17 PM
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QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 18 2017, 06:11 PM) *
Now, they if they let the vagiants come into Philly next week and steal a win from us, I'll return to my usual cynical, hating humanity disposition.


That's for sure. I've hated them even more than the Cowboys for a long time.


--------------------
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nephillymike
post Sep 18 2017, 06:54 PM
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QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 18 2017, 12:27 PM) *
They were very much in this game. This was against a really good team with extra rest, in their house, with a reputation of it being difficult venue for visiting teams.

I was actually impressed, thought the team was well prepared, Pedersen called a good game, and I thought Wentz was quasi-phenomenal. The last time I felt this impressed in a loss was in 2002 championship game vs Rams.


You had me up until the called a good game and quasi-phenominal.

I look at our RB not named Sproles and I don't see much there, so I know why Pedey did what he did. I know he couldn't afford to run it the last two drives because of the score. Yeah, I would have run it more, but if you think ten is near the top carries for Sproles, then I wouldn't have run it much more. Why I can't give Pedey "good game" status is that the passing game had no plays that made me say , wow. Many of the best plays were jump balls to WR's, not anything design related.

Wentz was not near phenomenal. He had an average game, coming off a good game. With the time he had to throw, there had to be a lot of open WR's open that he didn't see. True, our running game didn't give him any help, so it was a lot on his shoulders. I am happy with him, but he's just been above average so far.
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Pila
post Sep 18 2017, 09:13 PM
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Yeah, the final numbers were way off. But during the game, I never really noticed because the offense was moving the ball.

Back shoulder passes are by design. A staple of Hall of fame QBs everywhere.

Insofar as him holding on to the ball too long, yeah sometimes that happens of young QBs who hate to dump it off. Personally I like that quality.


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mcnabbulous
post Sep 18 2017, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 18 2017, 09:13 PM) *
Yeah, the final numbers were way off. But during the game, I never really noticed because the offense was moving the ball.

Back shoulder passes are by design. A staple of Hall of fame QBs everywhere.

Insofar as him holding on to the ball too long, yeah sometimes that happens of young QBs who hate to dump it off. Personally I like that quality.

I want to kiss you on the mouth
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The Franchise
post Sep 18 2017, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 18 2017, 09:42 PM) *
I want to kiss you on the mouth


I'm sure you haven't felt that aroused since reading near the end of 'IT.'


--------------------
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Reality Fan
post Sep 18 2017, 11:07 PM
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QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 18 2017, 10:13 PM) *
Yeah, the final numbers were way off. But during the game, I never really noticed because the offense was moving the ball.

Back shoulder passes are by design. A staple of Hall of fame QBs everywhere.

Insofar as him holding on to the ball too long, yeah sometimes that happens of young QBs who hate to dump it off. Personally I like that quality.


I watched the game twice and the 2nd time I had the benefit of replaying all the offensive plays. First, I agree that Pederson called a pretty good game. Howie screwed him with his RB situation. I completely disagree with Wentz playing a good game. He had some nice passes but he is getting Torrey Smith killed by the fan base for his poor passing. back shoulder catch does not mean the WR turns his bodyand jumps to full extension to try to make a spectacular attempt. The other ball people are crying about Smith not making was even worse. Wentz broke out of the pocket and had Smith open because he beat his man cold and Wentz did not set his feet to throw even though he had the time to do so but his pocket awareness is not great right now. He grossly underthrew that ball which allowed the DB to get in the face of Smith who had to change direction and come back a lot for the ball. He also was way off on a deep throw to Jeffrey but that would not have mattered due to a penalty. He made a number of bad throws low on short passes. The pass that Wentz threw that Ertz took inside the ten to set up a FG attempt to end the half should have been an easy pick and was grossly overthrown. He had a bad game and it was not because of pressure for the most part. Lets hope it is a learning moment for him, he seems like the type that will watch the film and work his ass off to fix it.


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Pila
post Sep 19 2017, 07:29 AM
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QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 19 2017, 04:07 AM) *
I watched the game twice and the 2nd time I had the benefit of replaying all the offensive plays. First, I agree that Pederson called a pretty good game. Howie screwed him with his RB situation. I completely disagree with Wentz playing a good game. He had some nice passes but he is getting Torrey Smith killed by the fan base for his poor passing. back shoulder catch does not mean the WR turns his bodyand jumps to full extension to try to make a spectacular attempt. The other ball people are crying about Smith not making was even worse. Wentz broke out of the pocket and had Smith open because he beat his man cold and Wentz did not set his feet to throw even though he had the time to do so but his pocket awareness is not great right now. He grossly underthrew that ball which allowed the DB to get in the face of Smith who had to change direction and come back a lot for the ball. He also was way off on a deep throw to Jeffrey but that would not have mattered due to a penalty. He made a number of bad throws low on short passes. The pass that Wentz threw that Ertz took inside the ten to set up a FG attempt to end the half should have been an easy pick and was grossly overthrown. He had a bad game and it was not because of pressure for the most part. Lets hope it is a learning moment for him, he seems like the type that will watch the film and work his ass off to fix it.

Yeah, not all throws were perfect, and his throws on screens are not the greatest. But heaving less than perfect balls up for a WR to adjust and beat his defender is also something good QBs with good receivers benefit from on a consistent basis (see Julio Jones).

The Ertz pass was precisely how they drew up in practice. I used to run that play on the street all the time.

tongue.gif

But seriously, that was a desperation pass with the last ticks of the clock and 80 defenders. He had to throw it.



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mcnabbulous
post Sep 19 2017, 07:44 AM
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QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 19 2017, 07:29 AM) *
Yeah, not all throws were perfect, and his throws on screens are not the greatest. But heaving less than perfect balls up for a WR to adjust and beat his defender is also something good QBs with good receivers benefit from on a consistent basis (see Julio Jones).

Yeah, this is what I don't get about the Wentz criticisms. QBs are consistently helped by receivers making plays on imperfect throws. Wentz got no help in that area last year and Torrey hasn't shown the ability this year.

Are the throws perfect? Certainly not. But they're more than acceptable and professional receivers should be able to make those plays. I much prefer Carson's willingness to make those throws and allow his guys to make a play on the ball. Receivers are in advantageous positions when the ball is in the air.


QUOTE
The Ertz pass was precisely how they drew up in practice. I used to run that play on the street all the time.

tongue.gif

But seriously, that was a desperation pass with the last ticks of the clock and 80 defenders. He had to throw it.

Right. This was more or less a hail mary throw. We shouldn't be describing it in any other terms.
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Reality Fan
post Sep 19 2017, 09:00 AM
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QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 19 2017, 08:29 AM) *
Yeah, not all throws were perfect, and his throws on screens are not the greatest. But heaving less than perfect balls up for a WR to adjust and beat his defender is also something good QBs with good receivers benefit from on a consistent basis (see Julio Jones).

The Ertz pass was precisely how they drew up in practice. I used to run that play on the street all the time.

tongue.gif

But seriously, that was a desperation pass with the last ticks of the clock and 80 defenders. He had to throw it.


I agree but so far every long pass has been of the "throw it up and hope they can win the fight for it" variety. To not voice concern for his long ball throws is merely sticking your head in the sand. He has had multiple guys wide open.


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Reality Fan
post Sep 19 2017, 09:04 AM
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QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 19 2017, 08:44 AM) *
Yeah, this is what I don't get about the Wentz criticisms. QBs are consistently helped by receivers making plays on imperfect throws. Wentz got no help in that area last year and Torrey hasn't shown the ability this year.

Are the throws perfect? Certainly not. But they're more than acceptable and professional receivers should be able to make those plays. I much prefer Carson's willingness to make those throws and allow his guys to make a play on the ball. Receivers are in advantageous positions when the ball is in the air.



Right. This was more or less a hail mary throw. We shouldn't be describing it in any other terms.


The criticism is a valid one. I understand your point that WRs help their QB at times however it seems every long ball is that type right now. Torrey Smith has repeatedly beaten his man cold and Wentz has underthrown him every single time.

And the Ertz throw was merely an example of a lack of accuracy, it was not a hail mary and Ertz was open. It was a 25-30 uard pass down the sideline between defenders who gave him a pocket to throw to and he overthrew it by 5 yards. The last pass of the game was a hail mary, that one was not.


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Pila
post Sep 19 2017, 09:09 AM
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QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 19 2017, 02:00 PM) *
I agree but so far every long pass has been of the "throw it up and hope they can win the fight for it" variety. To not voice concern for his long ball throws is merely sticking your head in the sand. He has had multiple guys wide open.

Whatta whiner! You and Mikey are like the snowflakes of eagle fans!

"Why can't he hit the receiver in stride like Brady?" Wah wah!


tongue.gif


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mcnabbulous
post Sep 19 2017, 09:17 AM
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QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 19 2017, 09:04 AM) *
The criticism is a valid one. I understand your point that WRs help their QB at times however it seems every long ball is that type right now. Torrey Smith has repeatedly beaten his man cold and Wentz has underthrown him every single time.

Did this happen on Sunday? I recall it in week 1, but don't recall it being an issue in week 2. I think that will come with timing though. He proved capable of throwing deep last year.

QUOTE
And the Ertz throw was merely an example of a lack of accuracy, it was not a hail mary and Ertz was open. It was a 25-30 uard pass down the sideline between defenders who gave him a pocket to throw to and he overthrew it by 5 yards. The last pass of the game was a hail mary, that one was not.

The circumstances were hail mary-esque, is my point. He had to make a throw in a short timeframe in the hopes of leaving enough time to allow for another attempt. It wasn't a good throw and should have been picked, but doing so would have essentially ended the half, as the Chiefs wouldn't have reasonably been able to get enough yardage to put any additional points on the board.

If Ertz catches it, as intended, he's out of bounds at approximately the 38. Maybe we attempt a field goal there, but I think we all know what the outcome of that 55 yarder would have been.
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Pila
post Sep 19 2017, 10:28 AM
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QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 19 2017, 03:00 PM) *
I agree but so far every long pass has been of the "throw it up and hope they can win the fight for it" variety. To not voice concern for his long ball throws is merely sticking your head in the sand. He has had multiple guys wide open.

This cat appears to take a pretty fair look at Wentz' performance in KC. Overall, not phenomenal, but there were a lot of good moments and an overall positive disposition for his performance as a whole.

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2017/09...art_river_index


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Joegrane
post Sep 19 2017, 01:00 PM
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How many of those poor long balls were thrown outside the pocket?

Hopefully his chemistry and timing with Smith will improve with time.

Do you recall that last year the Eagles threw so many short passes to everyone, especially WRs This year they are throwing more often to deep and intermediate routes. My impression is that Doug has not touched many pages in his playbook.

I'm pleasantly surprised with the Eagles so far, except the running game. I thought they would get torched after loosing two DBs in KC.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 19 2017, 09:00 AM) *
I agree but so far every long pass has been of the "throw it up and hope they can win the fight for it" variety. To not voice concern for his long ball throws is merely sticking your head in the sand. He has had multiple guys wide open.

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Reality Fan
post Sep 19 2017, 04:02 PM
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QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 19 2017, 10:17 AM) *
Did this happen on Sunday? I recall it in week 1, but don't recall it being an issue in week 2. I think that will come with timing though. He proved capable of throwing deep last year.


The circumstances were hail mary-esque, is my point. He had to make a throw in a short timeframe in the hopes of leaving enough time to allow for another attempt. It wasn't a good throw and should have been picked, but doing so would have essentially ended the half, as the Chiefs wouldn't have reasonably been able to get enough yardage to put any additional points on the board.

If Ertz catches it, as intended, he's out of bounds at approximately the 38. Maybe we attempt a field goal there, but I think we all know what the outcome of that 55 yarder would have been.


Yes...the first ball that people were killing Smith on was one where Wentz escaped pressure but did not set his feet which he had time to do and threw down field with Smith well behind his man. It was underthrown and Smith had to break stride and come back for the ballw hich nearly hit the CB in the helmet.

I agree the situation with Ertz was what is typically a hail mary throw but it was a bad throw to an open man.


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Reality Fan
post Sep 19 2017, 04:07 PM
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QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 19 2017, 11:28 AM) *
This cat appears to take a pretty fair look at Wentz' performance in KC. Overall, not phenomenal, but there were a lot of good moments and an overall positive disposition for his performance as a whole.

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2017/09...art_river_index


If you saw how much hair product that douchebag puts in his hair you would be ashamed for citing his article. He is one of the worst writers on the beat.

Now on to his point, Wentz worship is in full bloom with the media here and I like the kid but he has a lot to learn which is understandable. He really needs work on both pocket awareness and his deep ball and his short touch. He is very gifted in other areas and hopefully more reps will allow him to get a rhythm with the deep ball. I disagree with parks completely on the reason for so many incompletions. First, many were off target and second, he threw so many passes because so many were incomplete..lol


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mcnabbulous
post Sep 19 2017, 04:15 PM
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You have pretty lofty expectations of QB accuracy for a guy that watched Donovan for a decade.
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Pila
post Sep 19 2017, 04:21 PM
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QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 19 2017, 10:07 PM) *
If you saw how much hair product that douchebag puts in his hair you would be ashamed for citing his article. He is one of the worst writers on the beat.

Now on to his point, Wentz worship is in full bloom with the media here and I like the kid but he has a lot to learn which is understandable. He really needs work on both pocket awareness and his deep ball and his short touch. He is very gifted in other areas and hopefully more reps will allow him to get a rhythm with the deep ball. I disagree with parks completely on the reason for so many incompletions. First, many were off target and second, he threw so many passes because so many were incomplete..lol


Had I known this cat sports obnoxious, tasteless, dufus hair, I'd have automatically dismissed the clown unceremoniously. Clowns with obnoxious, offensive do's have me traumatized enough, shieet! I concede defeat.


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nephillymike
post Sep 19 2017, 07:30 PM
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QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 19 2017, 09:09 AM) *
Whatta whiner! You and Mikey are like the snowflakes of eagle fans!

"Why can't he hit the receiver in stride like Brady?" Wah wah!


tongue.gif

He's in good company. tongue.gif
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nephillymike
post Sep 19 2017, 07:37 PM
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QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 19 2017, 10:28 AM) *
This cat appears to take a pretty fair look at Wentz' performance in KC. Overall, not phenomenal, but there were a lot of good moments and an overall positive disposition for his performance as a whole.

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2017/09...art_river_index

Hmm, B-, slightly above average.

Sounds about right, I had him as average Sunday, and above average year to date, and you didn't need to put up with a bunch of hair gel listening to me!
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Reality Fan
post Sep 19 2017, 11:34 PM
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QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 19 2017, 05:15 PM) *
You have pretty lofty expectations of QB accuracy for a guy that watched Donovan for a decade.


One thing that no one can take away from McNabb was his deep ball. He threw one of the nicest deep balls we have seen here in the last 4 decades. It was that intermediate throw that everyone killed him for, the same one some folks here say Wentz is throwing it near the ground so only his WR can catch it...lol But seriously, if Wentz can find that kind of deep ball we will have something special.


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Pila
post Sep 20 2017, 12:45 PM
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QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 20 2017, 12:37 AM) *
Hmm, B-, slightly above average.

Sounds about right, I had him as average Sunday, and above average year to date, and you didn't need to put up with a bunch of hair gel listening to me!

I'll have to take your word on your doorag.

I thought he was better this Sunday, played a better opponent on a much tougher venue (Washington was practically half philly fans).

It's difficult to not be impressed by what this guy is doing as a second year player, especially when you consider the hole at left guard and the inadequate run game. I'm not sure you're being intuitive enough, grasping the level and degree of difficulty overall, the impressive traits vs his weaknesses, his flashes of potential vs the minutiae of flaws, or the overall ascent as a QB. That stuff doesn't show up in spreadsheets, so I can forgive your lukewarm nod provided you sport this kind of fantastic hair. wink.gif



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mcnabbulous
post Sep 20 2017, 12:59 PM
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QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 19 2017, 11:34 PM) *
One thing that no one can take away from McNabb was his deep ball. He threw one of the nicest deep balls we have seen here in the last 4 decades. It was that intermediate throw that everyone killed him for, the same one some folks here say Wentz is throwing it near the ground so only his WR can catch it...lol But seriously, if Wentz can find that kind of deep ball we will have something special.

Yeah, Donovan was an excellent deep ball thrower. And he was fantastic at screens too. Wentz has struggled a bit this year in both areas.

My biggest frustration with Donnie was that his accuracy issues were simply unpredictable. He would seemingly swing from Tom Brady to Tom Savage on a quarter by quarter basis.

With Carson, it seems like we're far more likely to know what we're going to get. I don't think he'll ever be a pinpoint accurate guy, but I think he's more consistently accurate than Donovan.
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Joegrane
post Sep 20 2017, 05:47 PM
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I agree, CW is more accurate when throwing to intermediate routes. Some of those are 'shotput' throws while being chased from behind-- quite impressive. Those mid-range throws are the the most important for a QB when trying to move the chains.

if #5 had a? Pro Bowl caliber deep threat for most of his career he might have put up HoF #s.

QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 20 2017, 12:59 PM) *
Yeah, Donovan was an excellent deep ball thrower. And he was fantastic at screens too. Wentz has struggled a bit this year in both areas.

My biggest frustration with Donnie was that his accuracy issues were simply unpredictable. He would seemingly swing from Tom Brady to Tom Savage on a quarter by quarter basis.

With Carson, it seems like we're far more likely to know what we're going to get. I don't think he'll ever be a pinpoint accurate guy, but I think he's more consistently accurate than Donovan.

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The Franchise
post Sep 20 2017, 06:54 PM
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QUOTE (Joegrane @ Sep 20 2017, 05:47 PM) *
if #5 had a? Pro Bowl caliber deep threat for most of his career he might have put up HoF #s.


4 years of him and TO together and they would both be in, plus we might have a ring or two. For sure if Reid didn't have him spending his prime throwing to James Thrash, Todd Pinkston, and Reggie Brown his chances would've increased.


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nephillymike
post Sep 20 2017, 06:57 PM
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QUOTE (Pila @ Sep 20 2017, 12:45 PM) *
I'll have to take your word on your doorag.

I thought he was better this Sunday, played a better opponent on a much tougher venue (Washington was practically half philly fans).

It's difficult to not be impressed by what this guy is doing as a second year player, especially when you consider the hole at left guard and the inadequate run game. I'm not sure you're being intuitive enough, grasping the level and degree of difficulty overall, the impressive traits vs his weaknesses, his flashes of potential vs the minutiae of flaws, or the overall ascent as a QB. That stuff doesn't show up in spreadsheets, so I can forgive your lukewarm nod provided you sport this kind of fantastic hair. wink.gif



Hell, I'm much better looking than that guy! Back in the day, my hair did approach that width and height, but with looser curls and waves.

On my important QB traits, accuracy is high on the list, and deep accuracy is big too. I know he checks a lot of boxes, and I'm happy he's ours, but he needs to improve.
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nephillymike
post Sep 20 2017, 06:57 PM
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QUOTE (The Franchise @ Sep 20 2017, 06:54 PM) *
4 years of him and TO together and they would both be in, plus we might have a ring or two. For sure if Reid didn't have him spending his prime throwing to James Thrash, Todd Pinkston, and Reggie Brown his chances would've increased.

True.
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mcnabbulous
post Sep 20 2017, 07:59 PM
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It's also a shame we have to refer to ages 24-28 as McNabb's prime when most modern QBs don't figure it all out until their 30s.
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The Franchise
post Sep 20 2017, 08:05 PM
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QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 20 2017, 07:59 PM) *
It's also a shame we have to refer to ages 24-28 as McNabb's prime when most modern QBs don't figure it all out until their 30s.


Was that a serious comment?


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mcnabbulous
post Sep 20 2017, 08:14 PM
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QUOTE (The Franchise @ Sep 20 2017, 08:05 PM) *
Was that a serious comment?

Yes. All of Donovan's peers were at their absolute best beginning around age 28. That was the beginning of the end for Donovan.

One has to wonder if our franchise would have acted with a greater sense of urgency early in his career if we knew the window would be as short as it was.

You're the one that referred to his prime as the James Trash days. I agree with that statement. It's unfortunate that was the case though.
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mcnabbulous
post Sep 20 2017, 08:52 PM
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FWIW, I think the absolute best version of McNabb was the 2002 (age 26) version. He was solid with his arm, but lethal with his legs. I also think that was our best team of the Reid era.

Had he been himself in the playoffs, I think that was our year. He was never quite the same after that, even as he improved as a passer.

I wish we could have seen 8 more years of that guy. The broken ankle changed everything.
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Pila
post Sep 20 2017, 08:52 PM
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QUOTE (nephillymike @ Sep 20 2017, 11:57 PM) *
Hell, I'm much better looking than that guy! Back in the day, my hair did approach that width and height, but with looser curls and waves.

On my important QB traits, accuracy is high on the list, and deep accuracy is big too. I know he checks a lot of boxes, and I'm happy he's ours, but he needs to improve.

Yeah, but my legs... they're remarkable.


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The Franchise
post Sep 20 2017, 10:12 PM
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QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 20 2017, 08:14 PM) *
Yes. All of Donovan's peers were at their absolute best beginning around age 28. That was the beginning of the end for Donovan.

One has to wonder if our franchise would have acted with a greater sense of urgency early in his career if we knew the window would be as short as it was.

You're the one that referred to his prime as the James Trash days. I agree with that statement. It's unfortunate that was the case though.


His best statistical seasons were throwing to TO and DJax. All NFL players are in their prime from 24-28.

He declined fast, but when he had a deep threat we were contenders. The fact that we were contenders throwing to Trash and Pinkston makes it all the worse. Everything else you say we agree on.


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mcnabbulous
post Sep 20 2017, 10:38 PM
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QUOTE (The Franchise @ Sep 20 2017, 10:12 PM) *
His best statistical seasons were throwing to TO and DJax.

I guess it depends which statistics you're looking at.
QUOTE
All NFL players are in their prime from 24-28.

Well that simply isn't true.
QUOTE
He declined fast, but when he had a deep threat we were contenders. The fact that we were contenders throwing to Trash and Pinkston makes it all the worse. Everything else you say we agree on.

We were contenders because we were well rounded teams that were strong on both sides of the ball. Especially along the lines.

It's basically impossible to build a team without a hole. Those early 2000 teams were pretty close. With the glaring weakness being at WR.

Acquiring TO when McNabb was 28 should have solved for that. Too bad he's a head case.
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Joegrane
post Sep 20 2017, 10:43 PM
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It is not surprising that McNabb's career declined faster than one might expect for a multi-Pro Bowl QB. His success was heavily influenced by his elite mobility.

He was not considered a very accurate passer even in the years when opposing Ds would pull a LB out of the passing lanes to serve as a "spy." Once teams do not have to deploy the spy, throwing windows could be expected to be tighter.

QUOTE (The Franchise @ Sep 20 2017, 10:12 PM) *
His best statistical seasons were throwing to TO and DJax. All NFL players are in their prime from 24-28.

He declined fast, but when he had a deep threat we were contenders. The fact that we were contenders throwing to Trash and Pinkston makes it all the worse. Everything else you say we agree on.

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Reality Fan
post Sep 21 2017, 12:25 AM
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QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Sep 20 2017, 01:59 PM) *
Yeah, Donovan was an excellent deep ball thrower. And he was fantastic at screens too. Wentz has struggled a bit this year in both areas.

My biggest frustration with Donnie was that his accuracy issues were simply unpredictable. He would seemingly swing from Tom Brady to Tom Savage on a quarter by quarter basis.

With Carson, it seems like we're far more likely to know what we're going to get. I don't think he'll ever be a pinpoint accurate guy, but I think he's more consistently accurate than Donovan.



Hahahaha..you are so right. I could never figure that out with McNabb. One minute he was laser accurate and the next he threw a worm burner but I loved watching him throwing downfield. It seems that was something he had from day one.


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Reality Fan
post Sep 21 2017, 12:28 AM
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QUOTE (Joegrane @ Sep 20 2017, 11:43 PM) *
It is not surprising that McNabb's career declined faster than one might expect for a multi-Pro Bowl QB. His success was heavily influenced by his elite mobility.

He was not considered a very accurate passer even in the years when opposing Ds would pull a LB out of the passing lanes to serve as a "spy." Once teams do not have to deploy the spy, throwing windows could be expected to be tighter.


What killed McNabb so early was the beatings he took. Broken ankle, broken ribs, etc and what he did to prevent that. When he went nuts in the gym to bulk up it changed his whole game.


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mcnabbulous
post Sep 21 2017, 10:14 AM
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QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Sep 21 2017, 12:28 AM) *
What killed McNabb so early was the beatings he took. Broken ankle, broken ribs, etc and what he did to prevent that. When he went nuts in the gym to bulk up it changed his whole game.

Yeah, you can basically see the line in the sand regarding his rushing numbers after the ankle break.

That season, he averaged:
6.3 attempts per game
7.3 yards per attempt
46 yards per game
6 scores (in only 10 games)

In the playoffs that year, his numbers were:
3.5 attempts per game
5.9 yards per attempt (although half of them were one run)
0 scores

He never again averaged 4.5 attempts per game in his career and most seasons he was below 3.

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