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- nephillymike   Enough Already. Put it To A Vote   Oct 8 2013, 08:05 PM
- - Dreagon   Not to take anything away from Foles, but you have...   Oct 8 2013, 08:17 PM
- - Bez   Good Point.   Oct 8 2013, 08:43 PM
- - koolaidluke   Question 1: who would I go with? I would go with...   Oct 8 2013, 09:24 PM
|- - mcnabbulous   QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Oct 8 2013, 09:24 PM...   Oct 9 2013, 10:06 AM
|- - koolaidluke   QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 9 2013, 11:06 AM...   Oct 9 2013, 06:27 PM
|- - Jax   QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 9 2013, 11:06 AM...   Oct 10 2013, 08:27 AM
|- - D Rock   QUOTE (Jax @ Oct 10 2013, 01:27 PM) Calli...   Oct 10 2013, 09:37 AM
- - nephillymike   fwiw, They just had a poll on Comcast Sportsnet t...   Oct 8 2013, 09:36 PM
- - Zero   Sunday it should be Foles because of Vick's he...   Oct 9 2013, 07:09 AM
- - xsv   QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 8 2013, 09:05 P...   Oct 9 2013, 07:40 AM
- - D Rock   If Vick is healthy, I start Vick. That said, he...   Oct 9 2013, 11:28 AM
|- - mcnabbulous   QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 9 2013, 11:28 AM) Tha...   Oct 9 2013, 11:40 AM
|- - D Rock   QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 9 2013, 04:40 PM...   Oct 9 2013, 11:51 AM
|- - mcnabbulous   QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 9 2013, 11:51 AM) I d...   Oct 9 2013, 11:56 AM
- - Eyrie   For now Vick is my starter against the Cowboys sim...   Oct 9 2013, 01:08 PM
- - Dr. Claw   QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 8 2013, 09:05 P...   Oct 9 2013, 02:36 PM
- - Chip Kelly   If Foles can run the option decently enough, I sta...   Oct 9 2013, 04:55 PM
|- - mcnabbulous   QUOTE (Chip Kelly @ Oct 9 2013, 04:55 PM)...   Oct 9 2013, 05:20 PM
|- - Chip Kelly   QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 9 2013, 06:20 PM...   Oct 9 2013, 05:35 PM
- - Jax   QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 8 2013, 09:05 P...   Oct 10 2013, 08:24 AM
- - mcnabbulous   I'm confused. What about Foles has proven to b...   Oct 10 2013, 09:54 AM
- - HOUSEoPAIN   Vick should play as long as he's healthy.   Oct 10 2013, 10:34 AM
- - Birdman420   Yeah I start vick as well, He's clearly a bett...   Oct 10 2013, 12:15 PM
> Enough Already. Put it To A Vote, Vick or Foles
nephillymike
post Oct 8 2013, 08:05 PM
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Here's the scenario on Sunday. I tried to be as realistic as possible given the defense and opponent.:

Vick sits out with the bad hamstring.

Foles plays the entire game and puts up roughly the following numbers in a tough fought Eagles 20-17 win:

Passes 14-27 for a healthy 250 yards, no TD's. no INT's passer rating of 83.
As they don't think he'll run, he actually runs a few read options and runs 8 times for 40 yds. No rushing TD's.

Both he and Vick are 100% healthy for the Dallas game.

Who is YOUR starting QB for Dallas??

Who do you think will be Chip's starting QB for Dallas?

Show Your Work
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Dreagon
post Oct 8 2013, 08:17 PM
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Not to take anything away from Foles, but you have to realize the Giants had been preparing for Vick all week. Since the Bucs will be preparing for Foles, it might be instructive to see how he does this coming week.

Honestly, I think at this point you go with Vick if he is healthy.
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Bez
post Oct 8 2013, 08:43 PM
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Good Point.


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koolaidluke
post Oct 8 2013, 09:24 PM
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Question 1: who would I go with?

I would go with Foles no matter what his performance was because he plays the kind of football I love. Alex Smith style ball control. I HATE "exciting" quarterbacks with their running and downfield passing. I have never understood why a QB running the ball is considered exciting. It fucking blows. Apparently, however, not just most fans disagree with me but most coaches too.

Question 2: who would Kelly go with?

First of all, I doubt Vick will be healthy enough to go next week so this is strictly hypothetical. Having said that, I believe Kelly goes with Vick for a couple of reasons:

1. Vick already won the job and hasn't played poorly enough to lose it. Kelly doesn't want to go back on his word and alienate any of the players/divide the locker room.

2. Kelly can't run his offense with Foles. I initially thought he could and I suspect Kelly once thought he could, but he can't. Kelly was saying his his press conference that even with Foles they would still be using the spread, but he neglected to mention that it will be a pass first spread. Instead of 450 yards a game it will be more like 350.


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nephillymike
post Oct 8 2013, 09:36 PM
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fwiw,

They just had a poll on Comcast Sportsnet tonite asking who people want as the starting QB of the Eagles:

Foles 56%
Vick 44%
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Zero
post Oct 9 2013, 07:09 AM
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Sunday it should be Foles because of Vick's health.

After that for me, it really depends on if the team envisions Vick coming back as the starter. If they do he needs to start if he's healthy. If they don't, and think they will draft someone then I'm 50/50 on it. Foles will need the work if he's to be considered as the future starter. If they want to keep him as a backup then he could use the work. If they want to trade him they need to play him and structure the offense so he will be successful.

Playing Vick if they don't think he'll be back makes little sense to me other than trying to win now. But with the limitations they have on both sides of the ball I don't see how anyone expects them to win much. I get that going to the playoffs is important for the exposure and experience but it's also important that young players learn to play and out-of-date players support.
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xsv
post Oct 9 2013, 07:40 AM
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QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 8 2013, 09:05 PM) *
Here's the scenario on Sunday. I tried to be as realistic as possible given the defense and opponent.:

Vick sits out with the bad hamstring.

Foles plays the entire game and puts up roughly the following numbers in a tough fought Eagles 20-17 win:

Passes 14-27 for a healthy 250 yards, no TD's. no INT's passer rating of 83.
As they don't think he'll run, he actually runs a few read options and runs 8 times for 40 yds. No rushing TD's.

Both he and Vick are 100% healthy for the Dallas game.

Who is YOUR starting QB for Dallas??

Who do you think will be Chip's starting QB for Dallas?

Show Your Work


Chip said Foles would have to go 100 for 100 to be able to take over the starting role. If he ends up with the numbers you posted, assuming Vick's healthy, that's nowhere near good enough.

But say he goes 35 of 42 for 350 yard 3 td and no ints. I'd be sorely tempted then.
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mcnabbulous
post Oct 9 2013, 10:06 AM
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QUOTE (koolaidluke @ Oct 8 2013, 09:24 PM) *
I would go with Foles no matter what his performance was because he plays the kind of football I love. Alex Smith style ball control.

Do you really think this team/defense could win with Alex Smith style ball control? I just want the guy that will get us the most points.

At this time, I think that's Vick. Foles is a better passer, but I don't think it's a significant enough advantage to compensate for what Vick brings to the running game. Both in his own running abilities and what he opens up for Shady.

Additionally, DJax is our primary receiving threat and I don't think Foles has the arm to leverage his best asset.
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D Rock
post Oct 9 2013, 11:28 AM
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If Vick is healthy, I start Vick.

That said, he's now had 2 pretty poor games. I said after the KC game that I'd afford him 2-3 more legit stinkers before I yank him and that hasn't changed. His leash is getting shorter, but at present . . . if he's healthy . . . he starts in my book. If/when he stinks up the joint 2 more times, then I'd give Foles a greater chance to show what he can do.


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mcnabbulous
post Oct 9 2013, 11:40 AM
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QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 9 2013, 11:28 AM) *
That said, he's now had 2 pretty poor games.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I don't think this past Sunday warrants the poor designation. Zero turnovers, 11.3 yards per carry, 16 first half points (without playing the final drive.)

He didn't play great, but I don't think poor is the word to describe it.

In fact, according to ESPN's Total QBR. He had the best week of any QB in week 5. FWIW, Foles was #6.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/type/player-week/week/5
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D Rock
post Oct 9 2013, 11:51 AM
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QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 9 2013, 04:40 PM) *
I don't think this past Sunday warrants the poor designation.

I do.



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mcnabbulous
post Oct 9 2013, 11:56 AM
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QUOTE (D Rock @ Oct 9 2013, 11:51 AM) *
I do.

Well, ESPN says it was the second best game by a QB this season. According to their QB rating system. So...

But here is what you previously had to say about ESPN...

QUOTE (D Rock @ Sep 10 2013, 05:22 PM) *
ESPN statisticians (who likely know a wee bit more than you or I)

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Eyrie
post Oct 9 2013, 01:08 PM
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For now Vick is my starter against the Cowboys simply because he hasn't yet done enough to lose the job. But if Foles plays lights out then I'd stick with the guy who's done enough to win it and give Vick another week to make sure he's healthy.

After that it's week to week depending on Foles' performance. I'd cut him slack for one bad game but two sees Vick back in.


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Dr. Claw
post Oct 9 2013, 02:36 PM
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QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 8 2013, 09:05 PM) *
Here's the scenario on Sunday. I tried to be as realistic as possible given the defense and opponent.:

Vick sits out with the bad hamstring.

Foles plays the entire game and puts up roughly the following numbers in a tough fought Eagles 20-17 win:

Passes 14-27 for a healthy 250 yards, no TD's. no INT's passer rating of 83.
As they don't think he'll run, he actually runs a few read options and runs 8 times for 40 yds. No rushing TD's.

Both he and Vick are 100% healthy for the Dallas game.

Who is YOUR starting QB for Dallas??

Who do you think will be Chip's starting QB for Dallas?

Show Your Work


Vick.

The Eagles do not have a defense that affords the Eagles to have a "game manager" type QB. (Granted, I think even Vick can play that role but he's never been in a spot where he's ever had to be. The one time he did was last year, the first game against the Giants where Andy almost screwed the Eagles out of a win...)
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Chip Kelly
post Oct 9 2013, 04:55 PM
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If Foles can run the option decently enough, I start Foles. My main reason being, up until last week, Vick wasn't really running that much. I also think Foles is a more accurate passer than Vick, and he sees the field better than Vick does, so if he shows the ability to run the read option, you start him.


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mcnabbulous
post Oct 9 2013, 05:20 PM
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QUOTE (Chip Kelly @ Oct 9 2013, 04:55 PM) *
My main reason being, up until last week, Vick wasn't really running that much.

Say what? Vick's averaging over 60 yards a game.
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Chip Kelly
post Oct 9 2013, 05:35 PM
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QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 9 2013, 06:20 PM) *
Say what? Vick's averaging over 60 yards a game.


Yes, but if memory serves, those yards come from one big run. Maybe I'm losing it? lol


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koolaidluke
post Oct 9 2013, 06:27 PM
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QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 9 2013, 11:06 AM) *
Do you really think this team/defense could win with Alex Smith style ball control? I just want the guy that will get us the most points.

At this time, I think that's Vick. Foles is a better passer, but I don't think it's a significant enough advantage to compensate for what Vick brings to the running game. Both in his own running abilities and what he opens up for Shady.

Additionally, DJax is our primary receiving threat and I don't think Foles has the arm to leverage his best asset.


Foles can get the ball downfield and we've seen him do that a bunch of times. Foles is like Kolb without (hopefully) the injuries.

Tampax has a really tough D so we might not get a real idea of what Foles can do until the Cowboys game, if Vick isn't back by then.


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Jax
post Oct 10 2013, 08:24 AM
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QUOTE (nephillymike @ Oct 8 2013, 09:05 PM) *
Here's the scenario on Sunday. I tried to be as realistic as possible given the defense and opponent.:

Vick sits out with the bad hamstring.

Foles plays the entire game and puts up roughly the following numbers in a tough fought Eagles 20-17 win:

Passes 14-27 for a healthy 250 yards, no TD's. no INT's passer rating of 83.
As they don't think he'll run, he actually runs a few read options and runs 8 times for 40 yds. No rushing TD's.

Both he and Vick are 100% healthy for the Dallas game.

Who is YOUR starting QB for Dallas??

Who do you think will be Chip's starting QB for Dallas?

Show Your Work


I think your example for this week may prove to be pretty close to accurate. If that is true and both QB's are healthy then we will go back to Vick. Would I go back to Vick? I'm not sure yet. I like Foles as a manager but I do also like Vick's expanded playbook in the running game.
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Jax
post Oct 10 2013, 08:27 AM
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QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Oct 9 2013, 11:06 AM) *
Do you really think this team/defense could win with Alex Smith style ball control? I just want the guy that will get us the most points.

At this time, I think that's Vick. Foles is a better passer, but I don't think it's a significant enough advantage to compensate for what Vick brings to the running game. Both in his own running abilities and what he opens up for Shady.

Additionally, DJax is our primary receiving threat and I don't think Foles has the arm to leverage his best asset.


Calling Nick Foles a mere game manager is to insult him. Also, he can utilize DJax, even if Vick can air it out 5 yards further than Foles.
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D Rock
post Oct 10 2013, 09:37 AM
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QUOTE (Jax @ Oct 10 2013, 01:27 PM) *
Calling Nick Foles a mere game manager is to insult him. Also, he can utilize DJax, even if Vick can air it out 5 yards further than Foles.

Yup.


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mcnabbulous
post Oct 10 2013, 09:54 AM
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I'm confused. What about Foles has proven to be anything more than a game manager? He started 6 games last year, had 6 TDs and 5 INTs.

He's a game manager until proven otherwise. That hasn't happened yet.
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HOUSEoPAIN
post Oct 10 2013, 10:34 AM
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Vick should play as long as he's healthy.


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Birdman420
post Oct 10 2013, 12:15 PM
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Yeah I start vick as well, He's clearly a better QB in Kelly's offense then foles is. I will also agree with the above poster about the D prepping for vick all week and not foles.

Foles is a good backup but he has not proven otherwise and I doubt this week at tampa is going to show anything different. Vick could use work on his passing progressions and his receivers could work harder to create separation, other then Djax he doesn't really have anyone else other then Shady out of the backfield that presents mismatches.
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