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- D Rock   Are the wheels starting to fall off?   Jun 10 2013, 01:30 PM
- - Phits   Interesting that there is no mention of Vick in an...   Jun 10 2013, 01:52 PM
|- - D Rock   QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 10 2013, 07:52 PM) Int...   Jun 10 2013, 02:19 PM
|- - Phits   QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 10 2013, 03:19 PM) Ho...   Jun 10 2013, 03:15 PM
- - Dreagon   You know...you guys had Reid a long time. And when...   Jun 10 2013, 02:06 PM
- - D Rock   I can't wait to hear how vick's comments a...   Jun 10 2013, 04:09 PM
|- - Phits   QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 10 2013, 05:09 PM) I ...   Jun 10 2013, 06:05 PM
|- - D Rock   QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 11 2013, 12:05 AM) see...   Jun 10 2013, 06:23 PM
|- - Phits   QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 10 2013, 07:23 PM) Fo...   Jun 10 2013, 07:03 PM
|- - nephillymike   QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 10 2013, 07:03 PM) I d...   Jun 10 2013, 07:18 PM
|- - Phits   QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 10 2013, 08:18 ...   Jun 11 2013, 11:41 AM
|- - nephillymike   QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 11 2013, 11:41 AM) I (...   Jun 11 2013, 06:21 PM
|- - nephillymike   QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 11 2013, 11:41 AM) I (...   Jun 11 2013, 06:21 PM
|- - nephillymike   QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 11 2013, 11:41 AM) I (...   Jun 11 2013, 06:22 PM
|- - Phits   QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 11 2013, 07:22 ...   Jun 12 2013, 09:03 AM
|- - nephillymike   QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 12 2013, 09:03 AM) Fir...   Jun 12 2013, 03:06 PM
- - Reality Fan   This has become some serious overreacting by a pre...   Jun 10 2013, 04:45 PM
|- - Phits   QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jun 10 2013, 05:45 P...   Jun 10 2013, 06:06 PM
- - nephillymike   I thought about DJax too. I'm perfectly fine ...   Jun 10 2013, 07:15 PM
|- - Zero   QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 10 2013, 08:15 ...   Jun 11 2013, 04:47 AM
- - iggleslover49   Excellent thread! Carry on...   Jun 10 2013, 08:27 PM
- - Birdwatcher   QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 10 2013, 02:30 PM) Fi...   Jun 10 2013, 09:27 PM
|- - Zero   QUOTE (Birdwatcher @ Jun 10 2013, 10:27 P...   Jun 11 2013, 04:54 AM
|- - D Rock   QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 11 2013, 10:54 AM) Good...   Jun 11 2013, 10:12 AM
|- - mcnabbulous   QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 11 2013, 10:12 AM) Pr...   Jun 11 2013, 11:21 AM
|- - Birdwatcher   QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 11 2013, 11:12 AM) Pr...   Jun 11 2013, 06:30 PM
|- - nephillymike   QUOTE (Birdwatcher @ Jun 11 2013, 06:30 P...   Jun 11 2013, 08:04 PM
|- - Zero   QUOTE (Birdwatcher @ Jun 11 2013, 07:30 P...   Jun 12 2013, 04:43 AM
- - JaxEagle   My views have changed over the years. Now I say s...   Jun 10 2013, 10:03 PM
- - HobbEs   Vick was on Howard Eskin's show Saturday morni...   Jun 11 2013, 08:23 AM
- - JeeQ   Funny that you automatically assume it's Vick ...   Jun 11 2013, 12:13 PM
- - samaroo   Word! Epic triple post, by the way. Made me d...   Jun 11 2013, 09:32 PM
- - Reality Fan   QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 10 2013, 02:30 PM) Fi...   Jun 12 2013, 12:28 AM
- - D Rock   Wow - So chip being "alright with the comme...   Jun 12 2013, 12:10 PM
- - JeeQ   QUOTE Receiver DeSean Jackson told NFL Network on ...   Jun 12 2013, 12:26 PM
|- - D Rock   QUOTE (JeeQ @ Jun 12 2013, 06:26 PM) Fuel...   Jun 12 2013, 01:45 PM
|- - nephillymike   QUOTE (JeeQ @ Jun 12 2013, 12:26 PM) Fuel...   Jun 12 2013, 03:13 PM
|- - Zero   QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 12 2013, 04:13 ...   Jun 12 2013, 04:13 PM
|- - Birdwatcher   QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 12 2013, 04:13 ...   Jun 12 2013, 04:40 PM
- - nephillymike   According to Les Bowen, maybe those wheels are mo...   Jun 12 2013, 05:04 PM
- - Reality Fan   QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 10 2013, 02:30 PM) Fi...   Jun 12 2013, 06:17 PM
|- - D Rock   QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jun 12 2013, 11:17 P...   Jun 12 2013, 06:48 PM
|- - Birdwatcher   QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 12 2013, 07:48 PM) ...   Jun 12 2013, 10:16 PM
||- - Zero   QUOTE (Birdwatcher @ Jun 12 2013, 11:16 P...   Jun 13 2013, 04:14 AM
|- - Reality Fan   QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 12 2013, 07:48 PM) ...   Jun 13 2013, 04:58 PM
- - Zero   I know some think Kapadia is a hack, but he nailed...   Jun 13 2013, 07:21 AM
|- - JeeQ   QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 13 2013, 05:21 AM) I kn...   Jun 13 2013, 12:58 PM
|- - Dreagon   QUOTE (JeeQ @ Jun 13 2013, 12:58 PM) This...   Jun 13 2013, 05:07 PM
|- - nephillymike   QUOTE (JeeQ @ Jun 13 2013, 12:58 PM) This...   Jun 13 2013, 05:36 PM
|- - iggleslover49   QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 13 2013, 06:36 ...   Jun 13 2013, 05:55 PM
|- - nephillymike   QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Jun 13 2013, 05:55...   Jun 13 2013, 07:33 PM
||- - iggleslover49   QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 13 2013, 08:33 ...   Jun 13 2013, 09:31 PM
||- - D Rock   QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Jun 14 2013, 02:31...   Jun 14 2013, 09:17 AM
|||- - Phits   QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 14 2013, 10:17 AM) I ...   Jun 14 2013, 09:54 AM
||||- - Eyrie   QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 14 2013, 03:54 PM) Kev...   Jun 14 2013, 12:39 PM
||||- - Phits   QUOTE (Eyrie @ Jun 14 2013, 01:39 PM) And...   Jun 14 2013, 01:23 PM
||||- - JaxEagle   QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 14 2013, 02:23 PM) how...   Jun 14 2013, 01:57 PM
||||- - iggleslover49   QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 14 2013, 02:23 PM) I b...   Jun 14 2013, 02:04 PM
||||- - Eyrie   QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 14 2013, 07:23 PM) how...   Jun 15 2013, 05:39 AM
|||- - nephillymike   QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 14 2013, 09:17 AM) I ...   Jun 14 2013, 12:04 PM
||- - samaroo   QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Jun 13 2013, 09:31...   Jun 14 2013, 08:39 PM
||- - iggleslover49   QUOTE (samaroo @ Jun 14 2013, 09:39 PM) W...   Jun 15 2013, 01:50 AM
||- - samaroo   QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Jun 15 2013, 01:50...   Jun 16 2013, 12:46 AM
||- - nephillymike   QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Jun 15 2013, 01:50...   Jun 16 2013, 02:44 PM
|- - samaroo   QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Jun 13 2013, 05:55...   Jun 13 2013, 09:10 PM
|- - iggleslover49   QUOTE (samaroo @ Jun 13 2013, 10:10 PM) A...   Jun 13 2013, 09:35 PM
- - D Rock   100% YES. That Vick (and DJax) don't seem to ...   Jun 13 2013, 10:50 AM
- - mcnabbulous   Foles is the most field aware of the QB's we...   Jun 14 2013, 12:05 PM
- - JeeQ   QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 14 2013, 10:05 A...   Jun 14 2013, 12:45 PM
- - Matty™   QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 14 2013, 06:05 P...   Jun 25 2013, 03:50 AM
> Are the wheels starting to fall off?
D Rock
post Jun 10 2013, 01:30 PM
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First Vick comes out and goes against the Chip Kelly Grain by emphatically declaring Chip should anoint him starter before camp begins. Given the chance to walk the rhetoric back, Vick instead insists his words go to press.

Now Leonard Weaver (remember him?) is claiming a state of disunity in the LOCKER ROOM

Leonard being a former player, he likely has some connections remaining in the locker room. Those connections are likely closer to Vick than Foles.

If I'm Chip, I cut Vick right fucking now. It's becoming clear that he's going to turn into locker room cancer the more this "QB Competition" slips away from his incapable grasp.

Chip can't allow Vick anyone to divide his first year's locker room.


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Phits
post Jun 10 2013, 01:52 PM
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Interesting that there is no mention of Vick in any of his tweets, yet everybody is assuming such. Seems like wishful thinking on the part of the Philly fan base. Anything to tear the man down.

QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 10 2013, 02:30 PM) *
First Vick comes out and goes against the Chip Kelly Grain by emphatically declaring Chip should anoint him starter before camp begins. Given the chance to walk the rhetoric back, Vick instead insists his words go to press.

Now Leonard Weaver (remember him?) is claiming a state of disunity in the LOCKER ROOM

Leonard being a former player, he likely has some connections remaining in the locker room. Those connections are likely closer to Vick than Foles.

If I'm Chip, I cut Vick right fucking now. It's becoming clear that he's going to turn into locker room cancer the more this "QB Competition" slips away from his incapable grasp.

Chip can't allow Vick anyone to divide his first year's locker room.


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Dreagon
post Jun 10 2013, 02:06 PM
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You know...you guys had Reid a long time. And when you have a coach for that long it creates a whole culture built around the personallty and worldview of that coach. And over time the team gets stocked with veterans who have bought totally into that worldview, and iinvested a lot of themselves in it.

I'm remembering when Jimmy Johnson took over for Landry, and how (after the initial problems with the way Jerry handled the firing) we suddenly had locker room problems. We had guys like Danny White stepping up and saying how "the team was not okay." Johnson ended up having to cut a lot of big name veterans his first year (Randy White, Ed Jones, etc) in order to make the team "his team". Many felt the wheels were coming off then, but in three years we were in the Super Bowl. What was actually happening was the coach was having to deal with the remnants of the old culture that first year, but for all the grief it was worth it.

Chip Kelly will probably do a little of the same, and there will most likely be a few unhappy veterans. Especially at the idea of a "college coach" coming in and wanting them to do things his way. But Kelly probably knows what he is doing.
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D Rock
post Jun 10 2013, 02:19 PM
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QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 10 2013, 07:52 PM) *
Interesting that there is no mention of Vick in any of his tweets, yet everybody is assuming such. Seems like wishful thinking on the part of the Philly fan base. Anything to tear the man down.

Wishful thinking?

How many players have publicly spoken out about ANYTHING Chip Kelly related?

(hint) - Just one. Mike Vick.

So if there's "disunity" in the locker room, the logical first place to look would be at those players who've spoken out publicly.

Sure, I'm just "tearing him down."

rolleyes.gif

If the asshat had kept his dumbass mouth shut, we could just dismiss Leonard.


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Phits
post Jun 10 2013, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 10 2013, 03:19 PM) *
How many players have publicly spoken out about ANYTHING Chip Kelly related?

Not that it matters, but, Vick's comments are/were justified and they weren't negative. The only indication of dissension is by speculation (we seem to have a need for controversy), and now by a former Eagle.


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D Rock
post Jun 10 2013, 04:09 PM
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I can't wait to hear how vick's comments are "justified."

Do tell.



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Reality Fan
post Jun 10 2013, 04:45 PM
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This has become some serious overreacting by a press hungry for stories real or imagined. Vick merely said he was not going to answer the same question over and over again. Chip Kelly has gotten testy over the same thing but in the zeal to create a story this has gotten out of hand. What is curious to me is why no one has attributed any of this rancor to Desean Jackson. He is unhappy because his role will be diminished on one hand with more running and lots of throws to TEs and now he is admittedly accountable for more than running flies and deep posts. He had some reported friction with kelly's plan and then palyed it off as if it never happened.

This is more a case of typical Philly media story fabrication than anything. Had Vick said he should be named the starter in that interview you might have something more and I would get Vick's reasoning because if he does not start here he needs to go somewhere that he might start before he is done. But he did not say that, he said they need to name a starter, whoever that may be. The frustration comes from dealing with a local media not unlike a bratty 10 year old on a long car trip...."are we there yet?....are we there yet?......are we there yet?.....



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Phits
post Jun 10 2013, 06:05 PM
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QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 10 2013, 05:09 PM) *
I can't wait to hear how vick's comments are "justified."

Do tell.

see RF's reply


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Phits
post Jun 10 2013, 06:06 PM
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QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jun 10 2013, 05:45 PM) *
This has become some serious overreacting by a press hungry for stories real or imagined. Vick merely said he was not going to answer the same question over and over again. Chip Kelly has gotten testy over the same thing but in the zeal to create a story this has gotten out of hand. What is curious to me is why no one has attributed any of this rancor to Desean Jackson. He is unhappy because his role will be diminished on one hand with more running and lots of throws to TEs and now he is admittedly accountable for more than running flies and deep posts. He had some reported friction with kelly's plan and then palyed it off as if it never happened.

This is more a case of typical Philly media story fabrication than anything. Had Vick said he should be named the starter in that interview you might have something more and I would get Vick's reasoning because if he does not start here he needs to go somewhere that he might start before he is done. But he did not say that, he said they need to name a starter, whoever that may be. The frustration comes from dealing with a local media not unlike a bratty 10 year old on a long car trip...."are we there yet?....are we there yet?......are we there yet?.....

cheers.gif


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D Rock
post Jun 10 2013, 06:23 PM
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QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 11 2013, 12:05 AM) *
see RF's reply

For what? Hot air?

I asked you to provide the "justification" for Vicks dumbass remarks.

- still waiting -

hunch.gif


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Phits
post Jun 10 2013, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 10 2013, 07:23 PM) *
For what? Hot air?

I asked you to provide the "justification" for Vicks dumbass remarks.

- still waiting -

hunch.gif

I don't think they were "dumb ass". Most people don't. If you look at the situation rationally, why would he not want to have the QB situation cleared up before TC? It would be stupid to hope that the situation is still unclear. He is a veteran QB who needs to prove himself this season if he hopes to continue his NFL career. If his future isn't with Philly, he would need to demonstrate his ability (or lack of) to the rest of the NFL teams who may be in need of his services.

Most importantly, the HC has encouraged him to be open/honest with the media and has taken no issue with Vick's comments.


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nephillymike
post Jun 10 2013, 07:15 PM
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I thought about DJax too.

I'm perfectly fine with he and Vick being uncomfortable. They both should. They both performed below their pay grade IMO for a 4-12 team.

I want to win. I want to win now. Nobody on a 4-12 team should be comfortable, especially Vick and DeSean.

Trying to think about why Vick said what he said. I am concerned that he sees himself not standing out as the choice to be a starter and he wants to force the issue of a decision, so that he can find a new home if need be.

I heard some sports talk hosts speculate that Kelly wasn't upfront about Vick's statues when he signed him. I just don't think that happened. He said open competition since I remember and can't see him doing a wink wink deal with a guy coming off two bad years.

I want Mike Vick to go all out and compete to the best of his ability. I think he's having 2nd thoughts. I still think a motivated Vick, properly coached and protected in scheme and OL is our best option. If he's really the QB we've seen the last two years and not close to the one we saw in 2010, then it's time to move on.

I was looking forward to a fight to the finish, not a veteran QB crying uncle at the end of OTA"s.
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nephillymike
post Jun 10 2013, 07:18 PM
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QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 10 2013, 07:03 PM) *
I don't think they were "dumb ass". Most people don't. If you look at the situation rationally, why would he not want to have the QB situation cleared up before TC? It would be stupid to hope that the situation is still unclear. He is a veteran QB who needs to prove himself this season if he hopes to continue his NFL career. If his future isn't with Philly, he would need to demonstrate his ability (or lack of) to the rest of the NFL teams who may be in need of his services.

Most importantly, the HC has encouraged him to be open/honest with the media and has taken no issue with Vick's comments.



In an open, fair competition, why would you think it appropriate to name a starter before they play one practice snap with pads on? Do you think it shouldn't be a competition or do you think that there should be a competition and we've seen enough in the OTA's to make that decision? Just curious.
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iggleslover49
post Jun 10 2013, 08:27 PM
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Excellent thread! Carry on...
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Birdwatcher
post Jun 10 2013, 09:27 PM
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QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 10 2013, 02:30 PM) *
First Vick comes out and goes against the Chip Kelly Grain by emphatically declaring Chip should anoint him starter before camp begins. Given the chance to walk the rhetoric back, Vick instead insists his words go to press.

Now Leonard Weaver (remember him?) is claiming a state of disunity in the LOCKER ROOM

Leonard being a former player, he likely has some connections remaining in the locker room. Those connections are likely closer to Vick than Foles.

If I'm Chip, I cut Vick right fucking now. It's becoming clear that he's going to turn into locker room cancer the more this "QB Competition" slips away from his incapable grasp.

Chip can't allow Vick anyone to divide his first year's locker room.



In answer to the question that started the thread...the wheels fell off this bus a couple of years ago and they aren't solidly back on yet. Weaver, now a part of the Philly media, quite likely heard about uncertainty in the locker room and confused that for disunity. To me, every one of these guys should know they are dispensable at this point and there prior status, whatever that may have been, has no bearing on what they are doing now. If some guys aren't 'buying in' they will likely be playing for another team. I think Vick just gave Chip an indication he may not pass the 'teabag' test Kelly mentioned when discussing QBs.

But cutting Vick now would seem petty. Now, if Vick stinks it up in preseason games or even fails to execute the plays the way Chip wants, he may find himself on the street with the 1st cuts. That would send a message.
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JaxEagle
post Jun 10 2013, 10:03 PM
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My views have changed over the years. Now I say show me what you can do when the games start. The rest of it is... well... stuff for message boards I guess.... hmmm..... abort.... sorry....
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Zero
post Jun 11 2013, 04:47 AM
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QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 10 2013, 08:15 PM) *
I thought about DJax too.

I'm perfectly fine with he and Vick being uncomfortable. They both should. They both performed below their pay grade IMO for a 4-12 team.

It's more about the player's attitude for me. Do they have a sense of entitlement or are they embarrassed by a 4 win season? Some players have always been the best players, getting the most attention and they seem to be more about themselves than they are about the team. Open competition changes all of that and I suspect some guys thing they're being disrespected.
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Zero
post Jun 11 2013, 04:54 AM
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QUOTE (Birdwatcher @ Jun 10 2013, 10:27 PM) *
In answer to the question that started the thread...the wheels fell off this bus a couple of years ago and they aren't solidly back on yet.

Good point! It ain't new broke, it just isn't all fixed yet. Dreagon's comment about Jimmy Johnson seems a good road map. There's a new coach because there was a big problem. The problem isn't solved the minute there's a coaching change. There's a lot of work to be done. Look at the difference between the attitude of DJax or Vick compared to that of Avant. Avant has to know his job is in jeopardy but he's out there working his tail off and helping the young guys beat him out.
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HobbEs
post Jun 11 2013, 08:23 AM
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Vick was on Howard Eskin's show Saturday morning. I didn't hear the whole thing but basically he said he's tired of getting asked the same question over and over (who's gonna be the starter?) and blew up at the media. He called Chip to appologize afterwards. Supposedly everything is cool now.

FWIW I also heard Foles looked really good the last few practices. Maybe more pressure on Vick?
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D Rock
post Jun 11 2013, 10:12 AM
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QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 11 2013, 10:54 AM) *
Good point! It ain't new broke, it just isn't all fixed yet.

Precisely why it was a mistake to bring Vick back in the first place. One step further from "fixed."


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mcnabbulous
post Jun 11 2013, 11:21 AM
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QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 11 2013, 10:12 AM) *
Precisely why it was a mistake to bring Vick back in the first place. One step further from "fixed."

When Andy came to town, he made a point to clear out the roster of vets that may have had loyalties to the old staff or could potentially create divides in the locker room. It was a major factor in creating that locker room culture that thrived and grew together in the first 5 years of his tenure.

Seems like it could be necessary again.
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Phits
post Jun 11 2013, 11:41 AM
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QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 10 2013, 08:18 PM) *
In an open, fair competition, why would you think it appropriate to name a starter before they play one practice snap with pads on? Do you think it shouldn't be a competition or do you think that there should be a competition and we've seen enough in the OTA's to make that decision? Just curious.

I (personally) haven't seen enough to determine whether the competition is complete. I also don't know specifically what Chip is looking for, in order to make a decision. However, that is not the point. With the blessings of his coach, Vick made his wishes public. We, in turn, made a mountain out of a mole hill.


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JeeQ
post Jun 11 2013, 12:13 PM
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Funny that you automatically assume it's Vick causing trouble when Cary Williams is going around on radio stations saying "fuck this franchise, the coach, and the entire fanbase"

Not to mention all the other players who've been moved to positions they don't care for, or moved from a starter to a 2nd or 3rd stringer or potentially off the team. They'd have the most reasons to be disgruntled.

I wouldn't doubt our overweight fatboys are missing Taco Tuesday and Fast Food Friday as well. I know they can't enjoy all the extra running Chip is making them do. Our poor millionaire football players might have to be in shape this year.
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nephillymike
post Jun 11 2013, 06:21 PM
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QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 11 2013, 11:41 AM) *
I (personally) haven't seen enough to determine whether the competition is complete. I also don't know specifically what Chip is looking for, in order to make a decision. However, that is not the point. With the blessings of his coach, Vick made his wishes public. We, in turn, made a mountain out of a mole hill.

With the blessings of his coach? So Vick said I'm going to complain publicly to the media the fact that a starter sin't named yet even though you said from day one you wouldn't name one until later and Chip said go ahead, knock yourself out??

I missed that one. What blessings?
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nephillymike
post Jun 11 2013, 06:21 PM
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QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 11 2013, 11:41 AM) *
I (personally) haven't seen enough to determine whether the competition is complete. I also don't know specifically what Chip is looking for, in order to make a decision. However, that is not the point. With the blessings of his coach, Vick made his wishes public. We, in turn, made a mountain out of a mole hill.

With the blessings of his coach? So Vick said I'm going to complain publicly to the media the fact that a starter sin't named yet even though you said from day one you wouldn't name one until later and Chip said go ahead, knock yourself out??

I missed that one. What blessings?
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nephillymike
post Jun 11 2013, 06:22 PM
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QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 11 2013, 11:41 AM) *
I (personally) haven't seen enough to determine whether the competition is complete. I also don't know specifically what Chip is looking for, in order to make a decision. However, that is not the point. With the blessings of his coach, Vick made his wishes public. We, in turn, made a mountain out of a mole hill.

With the blessings of his coach? So Vick said I'm going to complain publicly to the media the fact that a starter sin't named yet even though you said from day one you wouldn't name one until later and Chip said go ahead, knock yourself out??

I missed that one. What blessings?
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Birdwatcher
post Jun 11 2013, 06:30 PM
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QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 11 2013, 11:12 AM) *
Precisely why it was a mistake to bring Vick back in the first place. One step further from "fixed."


I disagree D, you look at him from a personal view jaded by what we all watched the last few years. But did you look at the coaches tape of Vick? Did you break down what his supporting cast was doing for him? I think Chip did, and maybe he felt it was too hard to fully judge Vick in relation the rest of the O the last couple of years. Also, Vick is the only vet on the roster right now, Foles is the only other QB w experience on the roster and that is less than half a season.

Everyone was chirping when Andy drafted 5 and then gave Doug the reigns his first season. I never saw any evidence that it damaged him, in fact he came out after 9 games in 2000 and played extremely well. Even if Vick starts the season, he will not end it, Foles likely will. Chip has no stake in Vick, he inherited him and reworked his contract to give him evaluation time. What is so wrong about that?
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nephillymike
post Jun 11 2013, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE (Birdwatcher @ Jun 11 2013, 06:30 PM) *
I disagree D, you look at him from a personal view jaded by what we all watched the last few years. But did you look at the coaches tape of Vick? Did you break down what his supporting cast was doing for him? I think Chip did, and maybe he felt it was too hard to fully judge Vick in relation the rest of the O the last couple of years. Also, Vick is the only vet on the roster right now, Foles is the only other QB w experience on the roster and that is less than half a season.

Everyone was chirping when Andy drafted 5 and then gave Doug the reigns his first season. I never saw any evidence that it damaged him, in fact he came out after 9 games in 2000 and played extremely well. Even if Vick starts the season, he will not end it, Foles likely will. Chip has no stake in Vick, he inherited him and reworked his contract to give him evaluation time. What is so wrong about that?

I have no problem with them bringing him back at the reduced rate. No problem if he wins the job, or loses the job. I do have a problem if he bitches about the competition though. Man up Vick. If you're the best choice, prove it!
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samaroo
post Jun 11 2013, 09:32 PM
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Word!

Epic triple post, by the way. Made me do a double take. (Triple take?!?)


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post Jun 12 2013, 12:28 AM
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QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 10 2013, 02:30 PM) *
First Vick comes out and goes against the Chip Kelly Grain by emphatically declaring Chip should anoint him starter before camp begins. Given the chance to walk the rhetoric back, Vick instead insists his words go to press.

Now Leonard Weaver (remember him?) is claiming a state of disunity in the LOCKER ROOM

Leonard being a former player, he likely has some connections remaining in the locker room. Those connections are likely closer to Vick than Foles.

If I'm Chip, I cut Vick right fucking now. It's becoming clear that he's going to turn into locker room cancer the more this "QB Competition" slips away from his incapable grasp.

Chip can't allow Vick anyone to divide his first year's locker room.


see...here is where you lose me....Vick did not say that he should be named the starter.......he said that Chip Kelly should name a starter before camp......and if he did not Vick was no longer going to answer questions about Kelly's decision not to name a starter or questions about who the starter is or should be......


talk about taking comments out of context.....are you sure you don't work for the Daily News now?

and you accuse me of hot air Mr pot?.......lol


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Zero
post Jun 12 2013, 04:43 AM
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QUOTE (Birdwatcher @ Jun 11 2013, 07:30 PM) *
I disagree D, you look at him from a personal view jaded by what we all watched the last few years. But did you look at the coaches tape of Vick? Did you break down what his supporting cast was doing for him? I think Chip did, and maybe he felt it was too hard to fully judge Vick in relation the rest of the O the last couple of years. Also, Vick is the only vet on the roster right now, Foles is the only other QB w experience on the roster and that is less than half a season.

Everyone was chirping when Andy drafted 5 and then gave Doug the reigns his first season. I never saw any evidence that it damaged him, in fact he came out after 9 games in 2000 and played extremely well. Even if Vick starts the season, he will not end it, Foles likely will. Chip has no stake in Vick, he inherited him and reworked his contract to give him evaluation time. What is so wrong about that?

Good perspective.
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Phits
post Jun 12 2013, 09:03 AM
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QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 11 2013, 07:22 PM) *
With the blessings of his coach? So Vick said I'm going to complain publicly to the media the fact that a starter sin't named yet even though you said from day one you wouldn't name one until later and Chip said go ahead, knock yourself out??

I missed that one. What blessings?


First:
QUOTE
Vick said he talked to Kelly in the aftermath of his comments. The coach was OK with Vick's comments and encouraged his quarterback to answer the media's questions honestly.

It might behoove both men if Kelly just suggest Vick stop talking altogether -- especially if Vick has to "clarify" everything he says. But then what would we write about?


Second:
QUOTE
Vick said, "I was asked, 'Do you hope that Coach Kelly makes a decision on the quarterback position before training camp?' I said, 'Yeah, I would hope so, that a decision is made before training camp, because I don't want to continue to get asked the questions about who is having a better practice or who had a better practice that day or who is more equipped to run the offense.' "



Last:
QUOTE
"I didn't say I wasn't getting enough reps," Vick told the radio station. "I never said that out of my mouth, and I wasn't even asked that question to give a response in that fashion. It's five quarterbacks, and everybody has to get reps. Everybody has to get better. I understand that.


" ... We all wish we could get more reps. I wish I could get more reps during the course of a practice. I wish I could have got half of the plays that somebody else may have got, but that wasn't my selection for the day. It's difficult at times but at the same time you've got to understand the process that we're all going through, and we're all in a learning phase."


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D Rock
post Jun 12 2013, 12:10 PM
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Wow -

So chip being "alright with the comments" during the "aftermath" equates to the comments being made "with chip's blessing?"




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JeeQ
post Jun 12 2013, 12:26 PM
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QUOTE
Receiver DeSean Jackson told NFL Network on Tuesday that the rest of the players also would like to have an answer to the question that’s on everyone’s mind.

“I have been hearing some things about Vick saying that he wants to know,” Jackson said. “At the same time, the team wants to know too. We need to go into training camp prepared and know who is going to be our starting quarterback.”

Jackson admits that the competition between Vick and Nick Foles is a close one.

“I don’t know, it has been kind of even,” Jackson said.

Vick may not be thrilled by that degree of honesty from Jackson, primarily because Vick surely would disagree with the accuracy of the assessment.

It’s all the more reason for the players to find a way to avoid the kind of candor that can cause problems in the locker room and, in turn, on the field.

As the Patriots demonstrate pretty much continuously, just because a question has been asked doesn’t mean it has to be answered.


Fuel to the fire. In more ways than one. The question is... Is Nick Foles as good as Mike Vick? Or is Mike Vick as bad as Nick Foles?
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D Rock
post Jun 12 2013, 01:45 PM
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QUOTE (JeeQ @ Jun 12 2013, 06:26 PM) *
Fuel to the fire. In more ways than one. The question is... Is Nick Foles as good as Mike Vick? Or is Mike Vick as bad as Nick Foles?

Fair questions to be sure.

But, we know so much more about Vick. Until we know as much re: Foles, we're just speculating. That's why I hate that we kept Vick around. It only serves to slow the process of evaluating Foles / Barkley.

Vick sucks. This is known, proven, and beyond all reasonable doubt by virtue of more than a decade of super human physical tools combined with head scratching turnovers, mistakes, and results.

I've no interest in the "devil I know." Makes no sense to stick with a known turd. Especially when the "unknown" still needs to be learned. And especially when the "devil I know" has directly brought us to this lowly state.


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nephillymike
post Jun 12 2013, 03:06 PM
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QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 12 2013, 09:03 AM) *
First:


Second:



Last:



Were those quotes from the original quotes published by Mosher or were they all made in the aftermath and his discussion with Eskin or someone else afterwards?
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nephillymike
post Jun 12 2013, 03:13 PM
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QUOTE (JeeQ @ Jun 12 2013, 12:26 PM) *
Fuel to the fire. In more ways than one. The question is... Is Nick Foles as good as Mike Vick? Or is Mike Vick as bad as Nick Foles?



Does anyone else think that DeSean is feeling the same insecurities as Vick? They both have a vested interest in knowing who it is now. Because if the starters are named and it isn't them, then they can try to get out of town. If the competition goes into the 3rd preseason games, then their options are limited.

As a fan, with no hate for Vick or love of Foles, all I want is the best guy to win and I'm very much looking forward to it playing out because I want to see this team compete amongst themselves because that's what 4-12 teams do, especially ones with a new head coach.

If they ain't men enough for open competition, they sure ain't men enough to handle the pressures of playing QB or WR for my team.

Anyone else feel this way?



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Zero
post Jun 12 2013, 04:13 PM
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QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 12 2013, 04:13 PM) *
Anyone else feel this way?

Yes. If there's open competition that means the coach hasn't seen anyone as the clear winner. This is really simple: prove you're the best and you get the job. I don't really see the problem. In fact, if a given player is whining (not saying anyone is) that would be "points against."
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Birdwatcher
post Jun 12 2013, 04:40 PM
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QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 12 2013, 04:13 PM) *
Does anyone else think that DeSean is feeling the same insecurities as Vick? They both have a vested interest in knowing who it is now. Because if the starters are named and it isn't them, then they can try to get out of town. If the competition goes into the 3rd preseason games, then their options are limited.

As a fan, with no hate for Vick or love of Foles, all I want is the best guy to win and I'm very much looking forward to it playing out because I want to see this team compete amongst themselves because that's what 4-12 teams do, especially ones with a new head coach.

If they ain't men enough for open competition, they sure ain't men enough to handle the pressures of playing QB or WR for my team.

Anyone else feel this way?



Yup, both these guys seemed to have been coddled a bit by our last coach. Chip, on the other hand, is not playing favorites and is holding guys accountable for what they show him, which without pads on isn't much so far. This really is a mole hill blown out of proportion and both Vick and DJax need to man up and prove they are worthy to be starters. If they aren't sure they can hack it and want out of town, boo hoo, they are under contact and all their gripes have accomplished is that making the team just got harder for them. If they cut cut I won't care and if they step up and earn a place on this time I will be fine with that too. Fans who think the way they would want things done is how it should be ought to become a HC themselves and show everyone how right they are.
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nephillymike
post Jun 12 2013, 05:04 PM
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According to Les Bowen,

maybe those wheels are more secure than thought by Weaver and some others:

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/dneagle...he-Chipper.html
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Reality Fan
post Jun 12 2013, 06:17 PM
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QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 10 2013, 02:30 PM) *
First Vick comes out and goes against the Chip Kelly Grain by emphatically declaring Chip should anoint him starter before camp begins. Given the chance to walk the rhetoric back, Vick instead insists his words go to press.

Now Leonard Weaver (remember him?) is claiming a state of disunity in the LOCKER ROOM

Leonard being a former player, he likely has some connections remaining in the locker room. Those connections are likely closer to Vick than Foles.

If I'm Chip, I cut Vick right fucking now. It's becoming clear that he's going to turn into locker room cancer the more this "QB Competition" slips away from his incapable grasp.

Chip can't allow Vick anyone to divide his first year's locker room.


you still don't get it....Vick did not say HE should be the starter...he said one should be named before TC starts......and apparently, from Jackson's comments regarding the team it seems he is not alone........

I don't get it...no matter how you try to misrepresent Vick's comments the facts remain the facts.....

now if I missed where Vick said he should be named the starter please enlighten me....and remember...I am the guy who wants the kid from USC under center right now....


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D Rock
post Jun 12 2013, 06:48 PM
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QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Jun 12 2013, 11:17 PM) *
you still don't get it....Vick did not say HE should be the starter...he said one should be named before TC starts......and apparently, from Jackson's comments regarding the team it seems he is not alone........

I don't get it...no matter how you try to misrepresent Vick's comments the facts remain the facts.....

now if I missed where Vick said he should be named the starter please enlighten me....and remember...I am the guy who wants the kid from USC under center right now....

laugh.gif

Do you actually believe this tripe? Or just playing devil's advocate? I'm sure Vick believes someone else should be the starter and the poor SOB is just looking for info.

wacko.gif


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Birdwatcher
post Jun 12 2013, 10:16 PM
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QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 12 2013, 07:48 PM) *
laugh.gif

Do you actually believe this tripe? Or just playing devil's advocate? I'm sure Vick believes someone else should be the starter and the poor SOB is just looking for info.

wacko.gif



Evan Mathis: Chip Kelly shouldn't rush Eagles' QB pick

Michael Vick wants Chip Kelly to pick a starting quarterback before the Philadelphia Eagles roll into training camp -- and DeSean Jackson agrees -- but it's not about to happen.

Offensive guard Evan Mathis doesn't see what all the fuss is about.


"I haven't been evaluating our quarterbacks because I'm focused on the offensive line, but I really don't see the point of Chip Kelly naming a starting QB before camp," Mathis told The Associated Press on Wednesday.

"This is an entirely new coaching staff with an entirely new offense, which isn't even fully installed yet. It's not rocket science; whoever the coaches feel will help the team the most will win the job after proving himself in training camp and preseason."

Kelly said it in fewer words: "To make any decisions on who someone is from wearing shorts and T-shirts doesn't make sense to us."

Mathis is wise to fall in line. Kelly didn't voyage to Philly to pander to DJax (who's coming off a flat campaign) or Vick (who's lucky he's still with the team).

Besides, the issue with the Eagles hasn't been the Week 1 starter but finding a quarterback who has the strength to go the distance. Vick has plenty to prove before he floats any further demands around the building. Following Kelly's lead would be a start.

Looks like there is one vet who sees the truth...really not sure this 'discontent' goes beyond 7 and 10
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Zero
post Jun 13 2013, 04:14 AM
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QUOTE (Birdwatcher @ Jun 12 2013, 11:16 PM) *
Looks like there is one vet who sees the truth...really not sure this 'discontent' goes beyond 7 and 10

I agree with Mathis, it's not rocket science but most of these guys have been pampered most of their lives and it's hard to break away from that. In fact, it may not be possible. I don't think Kelly sees it as a big deal either because he knows he's got the call. All he has to do is coach and observe.
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Zero
post Jun 13 2013, 07:21 AM
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I know some think Kapadia is a hack, but he nailed here:
QUOTE
Vick turns 33 later this month. He has trouble staying healthy, has thrown 24 interceptions in his last 23 starts and has fumbled 32 times in his last 35 games.

Nick Foles, meanwhile, threw five interceptions in seven games and fumbled eight times. His 6.4 yard per pass attempt ranked 29th in the league, ahead of only Mark Sanchez, Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder.

In other words, of course Kelly isn’t sold on a starter. Neither player has done nearly enough to be awarded the job in June.
QUOTE
This team finished 4-12 last year and had a point differential of -164, third-worst in the NFL. It’s perfectly reasonable to make players earn their jobs. And quarterback is no exception.
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D Rock
post Jun 13 2013, 10:50 AM
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100% YES.

That Vick (and DJax) don't seem to get this is very telling IMO.


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JeeQ
post Jun 13 2013, 12:58 PM
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QUOTE (Zero @ Jun 13 2013, 05:21 AM) *
I know some think Kapadia is a hack, but he nailed here:


This article sums up the fear I asked in my earlier post. If these two are playing evenly, please let it be because they're both playing so good. Foles was one of the worst QBs in the league last year, with Vick being marginally better. It wouldn't have shocked me if Barkley was showing the most promise in camp given last season.
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Reality Fan
post Jun 13 2013, 04:58 PM
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QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 12 2013, 07:48 PM) *
laugh.gif

Do you actually believe this tripe? Or just playing devil's advocate? I'm sure Vick believes someone else should be the starter and the poor SOB is just looking for info.

wacko.gif


I am sure he believes he should start but I am not putting words in his mouth to further a bias against him. I don't want him to start, I want Barkley but I am not editing his comments to make him look worse. He simply did not say he should be the starter...he said they should name A starter....thats all........and if he is not named the starter he can resort to plan b.....and by the way...you also ignore his comments on NFL network right after these comments...pretty clear stuff


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Dreagon
post Jun 13 2013, 05:07 PM
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QUOTE (JeeQ @ Jun 13 2013, 12:58 PM) *
This article sums up the fear I asked in my earlier post. If these two are playing evenly, please let it be because they're both playing so good. Foles was one of the worst QBs in the league last year, with Vick being marginally better. It wouldn't have shocked me if Barkley was showing the most promise in camp given last season.


Actually, I'm would almost bet real money that it doesn't matter whether it's Foles or Vick who is the starter at the beginning of the season, because I think the odds are very good it will Barkley at the end.
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nephillymike
post Jun 13 2013, 05:36 PM
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QUOTE (JeeQ @ Jun 13 2013, 12:58 PM) *
This article sums up the fear I asked in my earlier post. If these two are playing evenly, please let it be because they're both playing so good. Foles was one of the worst QBs in the league last year, with Vick being marginally better. It wouldn't have shocked me if Barkley was showing the most promise in camp given last season.



This is not saying Foles is the best QB, but he sure wasn't bad for a rookie.

Consider he was the only rookie QB ever to complete 60% of his passes and average more than 240 yds passing per game.

Also, compare his stats as a rookie to the best QB's that have played here in the last 40 some years.

Name.............QBR Rookie...QBR Yr 2
Jaworski............22.8.............60.4
Cunningham......29.8.............72.9
McNabb.............60.1.............77.8
Vick..................62.7.............81.6
Foles................79.1.............TBD

For a rookie behind a shit offensive line with a bunch of injuries to top skill players for a shit team with a shit defense, the kid did just fine in comparison to others. IMO, not good enough to be named the starter, but sure enough good enough to challenge the injury prone, turnover machine QB who had a point lower QBR on the same team and to let that challenge go as long as the new HC deems necessary, no matter whose feelings he hurts!


Let the challenge continue............................
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iggleslover49
post Jun 13 2013, 05:55 PM
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QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 13 2013, 06:36 PM) *
This is not saying Foles is the best QB, but he sure wasn't bad for a rookie.

Consider he was the only rookie QB ever to complete 60% of his passes and average more than 240 yds passing per game.

Also, compare his stats as a rookie to the best QB's that have played here in the last 40 some years.

Name.............QBR Rookie...QBR Yr 2
Jaworski............22.8.............60.4
Cunningham......29.8.............72.9
McNabb.............60.1.............77.8
Vick..................62.7.............81.6
Foles................79.1.............TBD

For a rookie behind a shit offensive line with a bunch of injuries to top skill players for a shit team with a shit defense, the kid did just fine in comparison to others. IMO, not good enough to be named the starter, but sure enough good enough to challenge the injury prone, turnover machine QB who had a point lower QBR on the same team and to let that challenge go as long as the new HC deems necessary, no matter whose feelings he hurts!


Let the challenge continue............................

It's easy to pile up stats when you dink and dunk your way down the field. Every now and again he'd throw a "duck" when the D was sleeping and some one was ridiculously open. Play calling has helped his case. Lets keep this in context
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nephillymike
post Jun 13 2013, 07:33 PM
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QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Jun 13 2013, 05:55 PM) *
It's easy to pile up stats when you dink and dunk your way down the field. Every now and again he'd throw a "duck" when the D was sleeping and some one was ridiculously open. Play calling has helped his case. Lets keep this in context



All rookies are given dumbed down offenses with plenty of dinks and dunks. The fact that he threw for 240+ yds per game means that he had a big part of the offense on his arm. I think his stats ARE in context. Context of a rookie NFL QB. He's thrown ducks, McNabb threw worm burners, Jaws threw rockets no where near their target and Vick threw many way overheads and Cunningham had no clue how to beat a zone and never got to his second option. Rookies are rookies and as far as rookies go, he did well, as ugly as it can be sometimes.
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samaroo
post Jun 13 2013, 09:10 PM
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QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Jun 13 2013, 05:55 PM) *
It's easy to pile up stats when you dink and dunk your way down the field. Every now and again he'd throw a "duck" when the D was sleeping and some one was ridiculously open. Play calling has helped his case. Lets keep this in context


As I read the post above this, I was betting myself you would respond with something like this. I won, so thanks! cheers.gif

OT: If Chip had named a starter already, or said he planned to, I would be nervous. The fact that he hasn't (after he clearly said he wouldn') is not news. If Vick and DJax don't like it, I do think that is telling, but not surprising. The more they (and any potential others) complain, the easier to weed them out, in my opinion.

I want to win, but I'd rather watch guys lose with heart and effort than lose slightly less and don't care. Any change we make can't be that bad, we won 4 games last year, for chrissakes!


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iggleslover49
post Jun 13 2013, 09:31 PM
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QUOTE (nephillymike @ Jun 13 2013, 08:33 PM) *
All rookies are given dumbed down offenses with plenty of dinks and dunks. The fact that he threw for 240+ yds per game means that he had a big part of the offense on his arm. I think his stats ARE in context. Context of a rookie NFL QB. He's thrown ducks, McNabb threw worm burners, Jaws threw rockets no where near their target and Vick threw many way overheads and Cunningham had no clue how to beat a zone and never got to his second option. Rookies are rookies and as far as rookies go, he did well, as ugly as it can be sometimes.

240 yards is leading the team up and down the field 3 times. And if the other team is scoring quickly and putting the offense back on the field it makes that number even easier to achieve. The point I'm aiming to make is that throwing for more than 240 yards doesn't mean that much. Vick had numbers like that too, where he threw for over 300+ yards. What's his TD and turnover numbers in comparison to other QBs? Those are the only two numbers that matter IMO
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iggleslover49
post Jun 13 2013, 09:35 PM
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QUOTE (samaroo @ Jun 13 2013, 10:10 PM) *
As I read the post above this, I was betting myself you would respond with something like this. I won, so thanks! cheers.gif

When I read the title of this thread I knew you would respond on it. I guess we're both winners. rolleyes.gif
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D Rock
post Jun 14 2013, 09:17 AM
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QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Jun 14 2013, 02:31 AM) *
240 yards is leading the team up and down the field 3 times. And if the other team is scoring quickly and putting the offense back on the field it makes that number even easier to achieve.

I suppose that's why it's a record.



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Phits
post Jun 14 2013, 09:54 AM
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QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 14 2013, 10:17 AM) *
I suppose that's why it's a record.

Kevin Kolb (remember him?) also set another arbitrary record in his first few NFL starts with the Eagles....just saying is all


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nephillymike
post Jun 14 2013, 12:04 PM
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QUOTE (D Rock @ Jun 14 2013, 09:17 AM) *
I suppose that's why it's a record.



Good one!

Also, nobody has really brought up the point that the majority of the people who have seen practice so far (media types), have said Foles has looked the better of the two. No doubt it's without pads and I realize that and unlike some, I am fine with waiting until the pads come on to name the starter, but we only can judge with what they've done in practice so far this year and in the games last year. One thing is for sure, Vick isn't dusting Foles in the QB competition like he did McCoy in the 40. It's still a competition and should remain as such.

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mcnabbulous
post Jun 14 2013, 12:05 PM
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Foles is the most field aware of the QB's we've put on the field since Garcia. I'm not a big fan of his physical traits though. I simply don't like his elongated throwing motion. Unless he makes significant strides throwing the ball down the field, I question that part of his game, too.

I'm hoping Barkley (who throws a great deep ball) will be the total package.
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Eyrie
post Jun 14 2013, 12:39 PM
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QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 14 2013, 03:54 PM) *
Kevin Kolb (remember him?) also set another arbitrary record in his first few NFL starts with the Eagles....just saying is all

And Vick looked like an elite QB for a few games in 2010 ... just saying is all.


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JeeQ
post Jun 14 2013, 12:45 PM
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QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 14 2013, 10:05 AM) *
Foles is the most field aware of the QB's we've put on the field since Garcia. I'm not a big fan of his physical traits though. I simply don't like his elongated throwing motion. Unless he makes significant strides throwing the ball down the field, I question that part of his game, too.

I'm hoping Barkley (who throws a great deep ball) will be the total package.


We know Vick isn't the future
I personally don't think Foles is the future
So honestly it wouldn't surprise me if Barkley ends up being the guy.

Only because karma wants revenge on me for insulting USC QBs my entire life
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Phits
post Jun 14 2013, 01:23 PM
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QUOTE (Eyrie @ Jun 14 2013, 01:39 PM) *
And Vick looked like an elite QB for a few games in 2010 ... just saying is all.

how do you say "yo momma" in Scottish English?
cheers.gif

I have no horses in this race. I don't think that Vick or Foles is the future. Unless Barkley is "that guy"; our QB of the future has yet to arrive. That means a few seasons of futility. In that case I would rather see Vick ride off into the sunset as an Eagle than to see a Kevin Kolb'esque tenure for Foles.

I believe that (we) fans take things out of context and make more out of innocent comments than we should. I also believe that the off-season is too long and the regular season is too short. Perhaps if the NFL were played all year long we wouldn't have to exaggerate stories and fabricate emotions to pass the time.


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post Jun 14 2013, 01:57 PM
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QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 14 2013, 02:23 PM) *
how do you say "yo momma" in Scottish English?
cheers.gif

I have no horses in this race. I don't think that Vick or Foles is the future. Unless Barkley is "that guy"; our QB of the future has yet to arrive. That means a few seasons of futility. In that case I would rather see Vick ride off into the sunset as an Eagle than to see a Kevin Kolb'esque tenure for Foles.

I believe that (we) fans take things out of context and make more out of innocent comments than we should. I also believe that the off-season is too long and the regular season is too short. Perhaps if the NFL were played all year long we wouldn't have to exaggerate stories and fabricate emotions to pass the time.


I see Kolb as classroom smart and fairly polished. I see Foles as less polished but tougher and a gamer. I am not giving up on Foles at all.
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iggleslover49
post Jun 14 2013, 02:04 PM
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QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 14 2013, 02:23 PM) *
I believe that (we) fans take things out of context and make more out of innocent comments than we should. I also believe that the off-season is too long and the regular season is too short. Perhaps if the NFL were played all year long we wouldn't have to exaggerate stories and fabricate emotions to pass the time.

jumpclap.gif
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samaroo
post Jun 14 2013, 08:39 PM
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QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Jun 13 2013, 09:31 PM) *
What's his TD and turnover numbers in comparison to other QBs? Those are the only two numbers that matter IMO


Why would you say that in defense (or defence, for Eyrie) of Vick?!?


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iggleslover49
post Jun 15 2013, 01:50 AM
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QUOTE (samaroo @ Jun 14 2013, 09:39 PM) *
Why would you say that in defense (or defence, for Eyrie) of Vick?!?

I wasn't defending Vick. The question had nothing to do with defending Vick. So take a chill out session. The question was merely asking about Foles TDs and turnovers compared to the quarterbacks Mike named above.
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Eyrie
post Jun 15 2013, 05:39 AM
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QUOTE (Phits @ Jun 14 2013, 07:23 PM) *
how do you say "yo momma" in Scottish English?
cheers.gif

I have no horses in this race. I don't think that Vick or Foles is the future. Unless Barkley is "that guy"; our QB of the future has yet to arrive. That means a few seasons of futility. In that case I would rather see Vick ride off into the sunset as an Eagle than to see a Kevin Kolb'esque tenure for Foles.

I'm of the opinion that the best we can hope for this season is adequate QB play, either from Vick (who I don't rate) or Foles as he tries to develop. There is no guarantee that Foles will build on last season's promise and become a reliable QB for us, and it's too early to have any expectations of Barkley. But with Vick near the end of his career I'd give the youngsters the chance to learn on the field and let Vick leave with thanks for what he did here (and I never thought I'd say that when he signed for us).

QUOTE
I believe that (we) fans take things out of context and make more out of innocent comments than we should. I also believe that the off-season is too long and the regular season is too short. Perhaps if the NFL were played all year long we wouldn't have to exaggerate stories and fabricate emotions to pass the time.

Agreed - this board is surprisingly busy when there is nothing happening. More games please!


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samaroo
post Jun 16 2013, 12:46 AM
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QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Jun 15 2013, 01:50 AM) *
I wasn't defending Vick. The question had nothing to do with defending Vick. So take a chill out session. The question was merely asking about Foles TDs and turnovers compared to the quarterbacks Mike named above.


Ah, I misunderstood your point.


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nephillymike
post Jun 16 2013, 02:44 PM
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QUOTE (iggleslover49 @ Jun 15 2013, 01:50 AM) *
I wasn't defending Vick. The question had nothing to do with defending Vick. So take a chill out session. The question was merely asking about Foles TDs and turnovers compared to the quarterbacks Mike named above.



Name........Yrs.......GS.......INT......FUM.....TO.....TO/GS.....TD
Jaworski......2.........3.........7..........1........8.......2.67........1
Cunningham.2........9.........15........10......25......2.77........9
McNabb.......2........22........20........15......35......1.59.......29
Vick............2........17........11........15......26......1.53.......18
Foles...........1........6..........5.........8........13......2.16.......6

I would expect, like just about every rookie who ever played, Foles' year 2 stats will be better than year 1. FWIW, in 10 starts last year, Vick had 10 INT's and 11 fumbles for a 2.10 turnover per game ratio. He looked very rookie like.
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Matty™
post Jun 25 2013, 03:50 AM
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QUOTE (mcnabbulous @ Jun 14 2013, 06:05 PM) *
Foles is the most field aware of the QB's we've put on the field since Garcia. I'm not a big fan of his physical traits though. I simply don't like his elongated throwing motion. Unless he makes significant strides throwing the ball down the field, I question that part of his game, too.

I'm hoping Barkley (who throws a great deep ball) will be the total package.


I wouldn't say it's great, but it's not bad I guess. Biggest issue is he under-throws a fair amount even when he has the strength to lead the WR forwards. The WR invariably has to lose a step or two, thus slowing him down considerably... never ideal.

Barkley could be awesome, you can see why he was a possible 1st rounder in 2012, alas he needs a fair amount of work first.

Then again who's he got to beat out? A Michael Vick who would rather put the ball on the turf then keep hold of it or the unproven Foles.


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