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Eagles Forum _ Philadelphia Eagles or Football Related Discussion _ Birds trade for a RB

Posted by: HobbEs Oct 31 2017, 08:33 AM

From PFT:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/10/31/dolphins-trade-jay-ajayi-to-eagles/

Posted by: JeeQ Oct 31 2017, 08:43 AM

Howie Roseman is a monster this year... I knew he would do something but Jay Ajayi for a 4th? laugh.gif

Posted by: dsc5085 Oct 31 2017, 08:59 AM

Holy s***, we got Jay Ajayi!

Posted by: CT_Eagle Oct 31 2017, 09:11 AM

Does this move make the Eagles better at RB?

I admit that I am not very familiar with Ajayi. Looking at his numbers, I don't see anything that indicates he is any better than Blount or Smallwood.

Perhaps he can block blitzes better. That has been a weak point.

Another consideration is Roseman was playing keep away with Dallas.

Posted by: Zero Oct 31 2017, 09:33 AM

Jay Train went to the Pro Bowl last year as an alternate. He's a powerful runner who can catch the ball and is rated 19 of 44 in blitz pick up ... Smallwood is 44, Blount is 33. The Dolphins OL is rated something like 28th run blocking in the NFL.

Posted by: Zero Oct 31 2017, 09:36 AM

Daniel Jeremiah ✔@MoveTheSticks
Philly building for postseason. Great defense and stable of power backs. Weather proof.
9:25 AM - Oct 31, 2017

jumpclap.gif

Posted by: CT_Eagle Oct 31 2017, 09:36 AM

QUOTE (Zero @ Oct 31 2017, 02:33 PM) *
Jay Train went to the Pro Bowl last year as an alternate. He's a powerful runner who can catch the ball and is rated 19 of 44 in blitz pick up ... Smallwood is 44, Blount is 33. The Dolphins OL is rated something like 28th run blocking in the NFL.


Thanks for the blitz pickup info. That is what I was looking for. Any improvement in that area will go a long way.

Who is the odd man out? Barner? Smallwood? I think they keep Blount and Clement.



Posted by: Zero Oct 31 2017, 09:37 AM

Barner's returning punts and doing a decent job.

Posted by: Rick Oct 31 2017, 09:40 AM

Now, get some help for the O Line and they'll be in as good a position as they can be.

Getting more excited...

Posted by: Zero Oct 31 2017, 09:50 AM

QUOTE (Rick @ Oct 31 2017, 10:40 AM) *
Now, get some help for the O Line and they'll be in as good a position as they can be.

Getting more excited...

Damn! Wentz and Jeffery are starting to get on the same page. Mack is beginning to see PT and is playing well. The defense is playing lights out. And now they have two bad ass RBs to take it to the defense.

Posted by: Zero Oct 31 2017, 09:54 AM

And the fourth they gave up wasn't the highest of the three they had. It will be a late fourth. Damn!

Posted by: Zero Oct 31 2017, 10:04 AM

2016...

Posted by: Zero Oct 31 2017, 10:16 AM

QUOTE
Ajayi has dealt with a knee injury this year, so that will be something to monitor. ESPN's Jeff Darlington said the Dolphins don't believe Ajayi "has much left in his knees." But he'll need to pass a physical upon arrival to complete the trade. If everything checks out, the Eagles just bolstered their offense with a Pro Bowler.
http://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/eagles-acquire-jay-ajayi-trade-dolphins ...

Posted by: Zero Oct 31 2017, 10:42 AM

unsure.gif

QUOTE
Salguero said the Dolphins view Ajayi's departure as "addition by subtraction." In other words, whatever ability he has on the field couldn't overshadow the off-field issues and behind-the-scenes hysterics that were detracting from the team.

On Monday, Eagles coach Doug Pederson preached cautioned with making a move before Tuesday's trade deadline. He said any player the club brought in would have to need to be the right fit from a chemistry standpoint because that's a big reason the Eagles are 7-1.

Perhaps Ajayi will change his tune now that he's joining what appears to be a legitimate Super Bowl contender. Unfortunately, most people don't change overnight.
https://sports.yahoo.com/report-dolphins-traded-jay-ajayi-152544256.html ...

Posted by: dsc5085 Oct 31 2017, 12:24 PM

Hopefully, the Eagles locker room is the right fit for Ajayi. Doug Pederson seems to be one of the most laidback coaches in the NFL.

Posted by: Joegrane Oct 31 2017, 12:50 PM

I really like his ability to pick up the blitz. He's not an ideal third down back but they've shown they have enough skill players to score points since they've lost Sproles. They need pass protection. He'll be nice on third and 3 or 4 for maintaining run/pass options.

I bet J Peters was valuable in the locker room. You don't mess with a 330lb future HoFamer who is desperate for a deep playoff run. Now they will have to rely on others to provide leadership.

QUOTE (dsc5085 @ Oct 31 2017, 12:24 PM) *
Hopefully, the Eagles locker room is the right fit for Ajayi. Doug Pederson seems to be one of the most laidback coaches in the NFL.


Posted by: Pila Oct 31 2017, 01:26 PM

QUOTE (HobbEs @ Oct 31 2017, 02:33 PM) *
From PFT:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/10/31/dolphins-trade-jay-ajayi-to-eagles/

For a 4th? That's hilariously cheap. Even if he doesn't pan out, the potential benefit way outweighs the risk.

But the situation at left tackle still has me fidgeting. I would love to see a tackle before the chariot turns into a pumpkin.

Posted by: Reality Fan Oct 31 2017, 02:24 PM

QUOTE (Joegrane @ Oct 31 2017, 01:50 PM) *
I really like his ability to pick up the blitz. He's not an ideal third down back but they've shown they have enough skill players to score points since they've lost Sproles. They need pass protection. He'll be nice on third and 3 or 4 for maintaining run/pass options.

I bet J Peters was valuable in the locker room. You don't mess with a 330lb future HoFamer who is desperate for a deep playoff run. Now they will have to rely on others to provide leadership.


Dsmn Joe...you crack me up...one of the things they did not like in Miami was that he was terrible at picking up blitzes. This was something that Gase mentioned specifically after their last game. He is also not much a pass catching option. He may be a little more than Blount but not a whole lot.

Posted by: Zero Oct 31 2017, 03:26 PM

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Oct 31 2017, 03:24 PM) *
Dsmn Joe...you crack me up...one of the things they did not like in Miami was that he was terrible at picking up blitzes. This was something that Gase mentioned specifically after their last game. He is also not much a pass catching option. He may be a little more than Blount but not a whole lot.
I think he's rated 19 of 44 in pass protection ... not "terrible". I also seem to remember reading that he's pretty good at catching the ball ... not BWest, but not bad. So, he's an upgrade at pure running and pass protection, and they're not losing anything on his receiving. His knees or his head could make the deal go south, but putting it in perspective one has to wonder if his head caused problems for the team or if the team caused the problems. A coke snorting OL coach and a team going as fast as the Eagles in the opposite direction. I assume he passed the physical so I'd say this was a good deal.

Posted by: Eyrie Oct 31 2017, 05:42 PM

I like the move.

Ajayi is faster to the line than Blount and a better pass protector. I'm slightly concerned by the Miami coach's comment about trying to hit the home run every time but hopefully that won't be an issue in a fresh environment.

Posted by: Reality Fan Nov 1 2017, 06:01 AM

QUOTE (Zero @ Oct 31 2017, 04:26 PM) *
I think he's rated 19 of 44 in pass protection ... not "terrible". I also seem to remember reading that he's pretty good at catching the ball ... not BWest, but not bad. So, he's an upgrade at pure running and pass protection, and they're not losing anything on his receiving. His knees or his head could make the deal go south, but putting it in perspective one has to wonder if his head caused problems for the team or if the team caused the problems. A coke snorting OL coach and a team going as fast as the Eagles in the opposite direction. I assume he passed the physical so I'd say this was a good deal.


I suggest you read his coach's evaluation of his blitz pickup.....he was pretty emphatic about it...and he has averaged less than 2 catches per game for his short career. I agree that his issues may be born out of frustrations of being on a dysfunctional team.

Posted by: Zero Nov 1 2017, 07:16 AM

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 1 2017, 07:01 AM) *
I suggest you read his coach's evaluation of his blitz pickup.....he was pretty emphatic about it...and he has averaged less than 2 catches per game for his short career. I agree that his issues may be born out of frustrations of being on a dysfunctional team.

I read it, and it was just about the only place I've seen that said he was bad. Nobody says he's great, but it sounds like he's about average which is better than what we have. Again, it may be that the coaching staff is part of the problem. Not exonerating Ajayi, but Gace did this last year with the OL and the unit this year isn't much to write home about.

Posted by: Reality Fan Nov 1 2017, 11:00 AM

QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 1 2017, 08:16 AM) *
I read it, and it was just about the only place I've seen that said he was bad. Nobody says he's great, but it sounds like he's about average which is better than what we have. Again, it may be that the coaching staff is part of the problem. Not exonerating Ajayi, but Gace did this last year with the OL and the unit this year isn't much to write home about.


I am sure Gase, who so many loved, is the issue. He seems like a guy who has no clue how to make players buy into his ideas.

By the way, he was ranked 40th in blitz pickup this year, not 19th per PFF. He was also ranked the least efficient receiving back among backs with 14 rec or more. He will need to prove himself here.

Posted by: Joegrane Nov 1 2017, 12:55 PM

I had based my comments on the previous numbers I had seen suggesting his ability in blitz pickup is better than anyone we currently have and his ability as a receiver is better than Blount's. If you are correct, RF, then Ajayi is just another flawed RB with some ability and some flaws, plus the problems with health and loose screws. Given our situation, I'm still okay with the trade.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 1 2017, 11:00 AM) *
I am sure Gase, who so many loved, is the issue. He seems like a guy who has no clue how to make players buy into his ideas.

By the way, he was ranked 40th in blitz pickup this year, not 19th per PFF. He was also ranked the least efficient receiving back among backs with 14 rec or more. He will need to prove himself here.


Posted by: Reality Fan Nov 1 2017, 01:55 PM

QUOTE (Joegrane @ Nov 1 2017, 01:55 PM) *
I had based my comments on the previous numbers I had seen suggesting his ability in blitz pickup is better than anyone we currently have and his ability as a receiver is better than Blount's. If you are correct, RF, then Ajayi is just another flawed RB with some ability and some flaws, plus the problems with health and loose screws. Given our situation, I'm still okay with the trade.


I am ok with the trade...he is young, talented and cheap. I also agree with Z that it is reasonable that Gase's inability to connect with players and poor management skills may be a big part of it. I am just presenting the rest of the picture, not just the rosy stuff. It is a worthwhile gamble even if it seems bizarre that the Dolphins let him go so easily.

Posted by: Zero Nov 1 2017, 05:32 PM

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 1 2017, 12:00 PM) *
I am sure Gase, who so many loved, is the issue. He seems like a guy who has no clue how to make players buy into his ideas.

By the way, he was ranked 40th in blitz pickup this year, not 19th per PFF. He was also ranked the least efficient receiving back among backs with 14 rec or more. He will need to prove himself here.
Just curious, where do the conflicting stats come from? I always thought PFF was a reliable source.

Posted by: Reality Fan Nov 1 2017, 10:57 PM

QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 1 2017, 06:32 PM) *
Just curious, where do the conflicting stats come from? I always thought PFF was a reliable source.


They are from PFF and were referenced in an article in THE Athletic.

https://www.theathletic.com/142686/2017/10/31/what-to-make-of-the-eagles-trade-for-rb-jay-ajayi/

Posted by: Zero Nov 2 2017, 04:33 AM

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 1 2017, 11:57 PM) *
They are from PFF and were referenced in an article in THE Athletic.

https://www.theathletic.com/142686/2017/10/31/what-to-make-of-the-eagles-trade-for-rb-jay-ajayi/

Apparently you need to pay for the advanced stats on PFF, and I don't understand why some people are saying the site rates him higher than the Athletic does. https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/jay-ajayi/9582 looks like it's saying he's "high quality" in running and receiving but mentions nothing about pass pro. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Posted by: Reality Fan Nov 2 2017, 06:02 AM

QUOTE (Zero @ Nov 2 2017, 05:33 AM) *
Apparently you need to pay for the advanced stats on PFF, and I don't understand why some people are saying the site rates him higher than the Athletic does. https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/jay-ajayi/9582 looks like it's saying he's "high quality" in running and receiving but mentions nothing about pass pro. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.


I think you are correct. His issues, whatever they may be could be a result of a serious disconnect between player and coach. Gase seems like an asshole.

Posted by: Zero Nov 2 2017, 07:25 AM

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 2 2017, 07:02 AM) *
I think you are correct. His issues, whatever they may be could be a result of a serious disconnect between player and coach. Gase seems like an asshole.

I think I was one of the population that was disappointed when the Eagles hired Pederson instead of Gace. I'm also running for CEO of DKD.

Posted by: Joegrane Nov 2 2017, 10:00 AM

RF, this article explains well my point of view on Ajayi.

QUOTE
Before the trade, Philadelphia regularly tipped their hand with their RB personnel. LeGarrette Blount’s on the field? Carson’s probably going to be under center, and expect a power blocking concept—Blount struggles to pass protect, and go out for routes, so we can assume the ball’s staying on the ground. Wendell Smallwood? Much more likely a zone run. Corey Clement? It’s a pass.

But with Ajayi on the field, Philadelphia can better conceal their true intentions. Not only is he the most dynamic runner in the stable, but he’s the best pass protector, and is just as good of receiver as Smallwood/Clement. Ajayi has the potential, not only to bring the running attack up a few notches, but add greater depth to the play-action attack and better assist Halapoulivaati Vaitai on the edge.

Off of the film, Jay Ajayi gives Philadelphia the zone threat they’ve lacked, as well as a multi-dimensional [RB] that can confuse defenses and disguise play design. But, as the introduction noted, Blount has found his rhythm—a devastating one at that—and he shouldn’t be interrupted.
https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2017/11/2/16593748/jay-ajayi-legarrette-blount-philadelphia-running-backs-eagles-touches-carries-fantasy-football-nfl


However, I think the last sentence is overstated. The presence of J Peters can't be ignored in Blount's success. I don't expect the power running game to be as effective without JP.

Also some of the effectiveness of CW in the Red Zone that the writer pointed out later in the article has been due to the threat of a power run with Blount and J. Peters.

Finally I think Smallwood, when healthy, will continue to get some touches as the "change of pace" RB mentioned in the article. He has the most straight-line speed of the group and is also versatile.

We'll see if the Eagles can continue to be as effective without JP. It does not seem likely, but the addition of a more versatile RB should help somewhat.

Posted by: Zero Nov 3 2017, 05:24 AM

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 1 2017, 07:01 AM) *
I suggest you read his coach's evaluation of his blitz pickup.....he was pretty emphatic about it...and he has averaged less than 2 catches per game for his short career. I agree that his issues may be born out of frustrations of being on a dysfunctional team.

Back to the blitz p/u ... not sure what you think of Baldy, but he does a lot of film work. Check out the video clips in http://igglesblitz.com/2017/11/more-on-ajayi/ and the comments by both Baldy and Duffy. The verdict seems to be inconsistency rather than ability. Look at both Duffy's and Baldy's twitter links for more videos too.

I'm really anxious to see this guy play here!

Posted by: Zero Nov 3 2017, 05:46 AM

I read http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2017/11/carson_wentz_excited_about_eagles_trade_for_jay_aj.html from Pederson "you have to go back a little bit to really watch him run routes and see that he's very capable of being a route runner out of the backfield" and thought it was strange saying that "you have to go back a little bit." What I get out of this is that Gace didn't use Ajayi as a pass catcher but Pederson thinks he's capable.

I'm thinking more and more that Gace is the source of problems in Miami ... to our benefit?

Posted by: Reality Fan Nov 3 2017, 07:31 AM

QUOTE (Joegrane @ Nov 2 2017, 11:00 AM) *
RF, this article explains well my point of view on Ajayi.



However, I think the last sentence is overstated. The presence of J Peters can't be ignored in Blount's success. I don't expect the power running game to be as effective without JP.

Also some of the effectiveness of CW in the Red Zone that the writer pointed out later in the article has been due to the threat of a power run with Blount and J. Peters.

Finally I think Smallwood, when healthy, will continue to get some touches as the "change of pace" RB mentioned in the article. He has the most straight-line speed of the group and is also versatile.

We'll see if the Eagles can continue to be as effective without JP. It does not seem likely, but the addition of a more versatile RB should help somewhat.


Yoiu need to vet your sources joe. The guy is a like a 12 year old student who calls himslef a cookie connoisseur. The numbers just do not bear out his/your fantasy about Ajai. I will agree he may be a slightly better pass catching option but he has not been a stellar blocker. I can't believe a head coach can come out and rip a guy for his pass blocking and that extraordinary move is ignored.

Smallwood is a dog. He can't stay healthy.

Posted by: Zero Nov 3 2017, 07:53 AM

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 3 2017, 08:31 AM) *
Yoiu need to vet your sources joe. The guy is a like a 12 year old student who calls himslef a cookie connoisseur. The numbers just do not bear out his/your fantasy about Ajai. I will agree he may be a slightly better pass catching option but he has not been a stellar blocker. I can't believe a head coach can come out and rip a guy for his pass blocking and that extraordinary move is ignored.

Maybe we should vet the coach too. Ajayi had 50 catches his senior year in college, went to the Dolphins, played sparingly his rookie year and had 27 last year. Maybe it's the player, maybe not. The Eagles were a complete disaster when Pederson took over, the Dolphins are a complete disaster now.

Posted by: Joegrane Nov 3 2017, 01:25 PM

Never said he was stellar. I don't think Ajayi will be great, just better than what we have, especially for our new situation without J Peters.

I fear what will happen is Ajayi wll be mediocre and everyone will say he stinks and Blount should get more carries. However I expect Blount to be even worse than Ajayi in yards per attempt and number of carries where there was no gain or a loss.

QUOTE (Reality Fan @ Nov 3 2017, 07:31 AM) *
Yoiu need to vet your sources joe. The guy is a like a 12 year old student who calls himslef a cookie connoisseur. The numbers just do not bear out his/your fantasy about Ajai. I will agree he may be a slightly better pass catching option but he has not been a stellar blocker. I can't believe a head coach can come out and rip a guy for his pass blocking and that extraordinary move is ignored.

Smallwood is a dog. He can't stay healthy.


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